pvp gear in legion

[Escapist]

No. I don't want pvp gear to be BiS for pve. For the same reasons that I don't want pve gear to be BiS for pvp. Which is why they should make it so that gear doesn't matter in pvp if they really want pvers to be able to freely jump into it. They are refusing to scale so they are screwing themselves out of a lot of options.

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I love this system. I think its great. This thread is about why are they changing that. I see no reason to change it.

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I don't propose doing this but I have one example of how u could make pvp gear harder to get. Someone mentioned earlier that gear u get from arena could be based off ur rating, apparently according to some QA at blizzcom. What if 2600 or 2700+ dropped mythic ilvl gear? and u could only get a piece of it once a week or so. Majority of ppl aren't going to get that rating.

There a million flaws with that design tho and I don't see why blizz has to get rid of scaling. Scaling worked fine imo. I would however tweak it.

First season of WoD:
honor gear was 620 pve, 675 pvp.
Conq gear was 660 pve, 690 pvp
highmaul mythic was 685

I think they fucked up and made conq pve ilvl too high. It should've been 630 or 635. 660 was far too high imo.

The biggest issue is getting carried for rating so you can buy gear that requires rating. In PvE you have both a weekly lockout, and the guild that carries you would have to give you gear over their own raiders (unless you use the bonus roll to win something, which is a pretty small chance). In Arena, you can get carried to that rating, and then just sit there and buy everything you need without ever having to work for it. The people carrying you are also not losing anything, other than a good teammate.

You'd have to require a pretty high rating requirement to prevent carries, or require you to play a certain amount of games above that rating each week before you can spend points that require that rating. Could work, just annoying. I still vote for equalized gear in rated games.

[Ryuushima]

being forced to do PvE in order to get the best PvP gear would be complete nonsense and the most retarded action ever. Not buying Legion for sure until I've heard otherwise from devs.

[ellieg]

The biggest issue is getting carried for rating so you can buy gear that requires rating. In PvE you have both a weekly lockout, and the guild that carries you would have to give you gear over their own raiders (unless you use the bonus roll to win something, which is a pretty small chance). In Arena, you can get carried to that rating, and then just sit there and buy everything you need without ever having to work for it. The people carrying you are also not losing anything, other than a good teammate.

You'd have to require a pretty high rating requirement to prevent carries, or require you to play a certain amount of games above that rating each week before you can spend points that require that rating. Could work, just annoying. I still vote for equalized gear in rated games.

Yea there a ton of flaws with the system I talked about. Equalized gear is definitely the best option. Second best option is scaling like they had but maybe adjusting it so conq gear isn't as good in pve as it was in this xpac. I think the main problem was the large difference in ilvl from LFR all the way up to mythic.

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being forced to do PvE in order to get the best PvP gear would be complete nonsense and the most retarded action ever. Not buying Legion for sure until I've heard otherwise from devs.

That's what im waiting for. haven't played in 6 months but ive always loved wow pvp and want to play it again. Hoping they get it right

[Fenrkyr]

Please reread all of my posts. At no point during the time period mythic HFC was released, was mythic gear better than conquest gear. Obviously pvpers are not going to do a ton of mythic HFC.

During WoD season 1, mythic highmaul gear was used to fill in the gaps of pvp gear before ~10 weeks had gone by and gave pvpers enough conquest to get full conquest gear. Conquest gear was 690, but they could only get 1-2 pieces a week. Mythic gear was 685. All of the top pvpers (2900+) were wearing multiple pieces of mythic to secure their gladiator rating. When BRF came out and was 695, it was better than conquest. Pvpers were wearing all BRF gear and the legendary(epic at the time) ring (even tho the proc didn't work) because the ilvl was higher and it gave them an advantage. Blizzard nerfed it so that PVP gear was once again BiS for every slot.

So saying gladiators don't even do mythic right now when they have no incentive to, is not an argument. When they did have an incentive to do it, they did it. and it affected ratings.

I'm saying your concerns are irrelevant because so few PVPers are also in guilds capable of clearing mythic content. You are the one making the claim that PVPers will, en mass, start participating in top level PVE, and I don't buy it at all. The onus is on your to prove this is a legitimate concern, so go ahead; take the top 200 players in each bracket and determine how many of them have any history at all of clearing mythic PVE content. Sure, PVPers don't clear mythic now because conquest gear is better than mythic gear, but I'm saying that even if mythic gear is better than conquest, only a small % of PVPers are going to 1) care enough to want to PVE to get it, and 2) either play in a PVE guild capable of clearing mythic or pay for a mythic carry, which most guilds who aren't on farm aren't going to do.

[Ryuushima]

I'm saying your concerns are irrelevant because so few PVPers are also in guilds capable of clearing mythic content. You are the one making the claim that PVPers will, en mass, start participating in top level PVE, and I don't buy it at all. The onus is on your to prove this is a legitimate concern, so go ahead; take the top 200 players in each bracket and determine how many of them have any history at all of clearing mythic PVE content. Sure, PVPers don't clear mythic now because conquest gear is better than mythic gear, but I'm saying that even if mythic gear is better than conquest, only a small % of PVPers are going to 1) care enough to want to PVE to get it, and 2) either play in a PVE guild capable of clearing mythic or pay for a mythic carry, which most guilds who aren't on farm aren't going to do.

imbalance is imbalance, you can't force a pvp-er to pve in order to get the best gear and vice-versa.
The scaling gear system of WoD was actually pretty nice but even that pales in comparison to just having gear not matter in PvP and making PvP gear be purely cosmetic for balance reasons.

[ellieg]

I'm saying your concerns are irrelevant because so few PVPers are also in guilds capable of clearing mythic content. You are the one making the claim that PVPers will, en mass, start participating in top level PVE, and I don't buy it at all. The onus is on your to prove this is a legitimate concern, so go ahead; take the top 200 players in each bracket and determine how many of them have any history at all of clearing mythic PVE content. Sure, PVPers don't clear mythic now because conquest gear is better than mythic gear, but I'm saying that even if mythic gear is better than conquest, only a small % of PVPers are going to 1) care enough to want to PVE to get it, and 2) either play in a PVE guild capable of clearing mythic or pay for a mythic carry, which most guilds who aren't on farm aren't going to do.

I did just prove it. During the first season of WoD, everyone on the front page of arena ratings were wearing mythic gear. Im not saying its going to affect a huge majority of players. Im saying its going to affect the top 1%. You know, the gladiators. In order to get gladiator under these conditions, you will need to have pve gear come legion.

"only a small % of PVPers are going to 1) care enough to want to PVE to get it, and 2) either play in a PVE guild capable of clearing mythic"
how small a % are you thinking? .5%? because that's the threshold for gladiator.

Most of the high lvl pvpers are obviously really good at the game. Mythic is not as hard of a challenge to them as you would think. You also have to remember that seasons and raids normally get released at the same time. Seasons will last 20+ weeks which is far long enough for guilds to get mythic on farm.

[Deleted]

pvp gearing system was the only matter acceptable in wod.

I'm really terrified about what they can do in legion.

Any news about the ilvl/pve-pvp gearing system?

Im worried about:

-I have to do pve in order to compete in pvp
-Pvp gear ilvl in open pve is garbage so i cant farm/do stuff
-Pvp gear again with rating/ high farming, so it comes back around gear instead of skill

[Seditian]

The sad part is, PvP got dominated by PvE players back in WotLK and they didn't learn enough from it, yes PvE gear doesn't automatically bring you into gladiator range anymore, but it's (in its current iteration) back in Legion, just not as strong. Even if it's the same item level, this still wouldn't fix it, because some stats from PvE are way better than their PvP counterparts.

I'm sure PvE players wouldn't be worried at all if PvP gear was "only" 1-2% better than their (warforged) mythic drops.

Edit:

pvp gearing system was the only matter acceptable in wod.

I'm really terrified about what they can do in legion.

Any news about the ilvl/pve-pvp gearing system?

Im worried about:

-I have to do pve in order to compete in pvp
-Pvp gear ilvl in open pve is garbage so i cant farm/do stuff
-Pvp gear again with rating/ high farming, so it comes back around gear instead of skill

I believe PvP item levels changing is gone with Legion, so your second point won't be a problem at least. Not sure about the first and the third point. They said a max geared player would "only" have a 1-7% advantage over a freshly geared level 100. So if you're good enough, gladiator won't be a problem with shit gear. That being said, I hope it's only a 1% (the ideal situation would be 0%) advantage instead of 7%, because 7% is insanely high. Better than in WoD, but it's still easily the difference between a blue and an epic weapon in the current system.

[jSewell]

The "most top arena players don't mythic" idea is kind of fallacious, because:
1. a good amount of them do
2. Plenty of them will get runs from friends or pay top guilds to run them if it provides an advantage. You're talking sponsored teams who the sponsor may also sponsor a raid team... There will be favor done and there is no doubt top arena players will find a way to have the best equipment possible.

[Jaransan]

imbalance is imbalance, you can't force a pvp-er to pve in order to get the best gear and vice-versa.
The scaling gear system of WoD was actually pretty nice but even that pales in comparison to just having gear not matter in PvP and making PvP gear be purely cosmetic for balance reasons.

The reason having pvp award gear that is purey cosmetic and DOESNT PROGRESS YOUR STATS isn't an option is because theres lot of content in the game besides pvp that you still need better gear for. Literally shit tons of people run old raids, do heroics, try challenge modes, go to pve zones that were released later on like timeless isles etc. At the end of the day, pvp is actually a small part of the entire game, as is raiding, and if you make pvp gear ENTIRELY cosmetic, your going to piss off a lot of PVPers who do other things besides just log on and do BG's for 8 hours straight. Understand that most pvpers aren't just single minded PVP machines who log on to wow just to hear the sound of the enemy faction dying. Lots of people do lots of shit that requires having actual gear, and taking stats off pvp gear means those pvpers are going to be forced into pve, which as has already been said, LITERALLY NOONE WANTS.

[ellieg]

The reason having pvp award gear that is purey cosmetic and DOESNT PROGRESS YOUR STATS isn't an option is because theres lot of content in the game besides pvp that you still need better gear for. Literally shit tons of people run old raids, do heroics, try challenge modes, go to pve zones that were released later on like timeless isles etc. At the end of the day, pvp is actually a small part of the entire game, as is raiding, and if you make pvp gear ENTIRELY cosmetic, your going to piss off a lot of PVPers who do other things besides just log on and do BG's for 8 hours straight. Understand that most pvpers aren't just single minded PVP machines who log on to wow just to hear the sound of the enemy faction dying. Lots of people do lots of shit that requires having actual gear, and taking stats off pvp gear means those pvpers are going to be forced into pve, which as has already been said, LITERALLY NOONE WANTS.

So why not make it so that pvp still gives gear but the gear just wont matter? Like in all pvp, your stats will be normalized and wont matter. But doing battlegrounds will get u lfr gear, doing arenas will get u normal gear? I mean that's kinda how it is now right? Honor gear is pretty shitty and conquest gear falls somewhere near normal/hc gear.

This way it still gives u gear to use in other activities but wont affect pvp balance.

[Rolex Snob]

It will not matter at any bracket. The number of full mythic players that PvP competitively is very small. Go check the leaderboards if you do not believe me, and see how many have cleared Mythic enough times to be full Mythic geared. Then get back with us.

And to be fair, Blizzard could end up designing the gear obtained via PvP to be the same ilvl as Mythic gear, because PvP gear would have no set bonuses, or trinket effects. I kind of doubt it, but we will not know for sure until more info comes along.

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There will be no set bonuses, trinket effects, or enchants in PvP, period, including from gear obtained in PvP in Legion.

I agree with the whole mythic raiders don't pvp. They don't like the fact that pvp is so much more skill based than their ez mode YouTubed boss strats. It burns them that they will never posess the skill to obtain glad but any idiot in the right guild can be mythic. Ever see hardcore raiders pvp? Comical at best, they can't handle the pace and skill cap.

[Deleted]

Seems like some people don’t get it, the problem is not mythic raiders doing pvp, nobody cares about dragonslayers,
The real problem is pvpers doing pve in order to get bis gear, and I’m sure if legion comes back again with the woltk system I’m out, not gonna raid again that’s for sure.
Bis raid gear should come from raids
Bis pvp gear should come from pvp, period

[Crruor]

I'm saying your concerns are irrelevant because so few PVPers are also in guilds capable of clearing mythic content. You are the one making the claim that PVPers will, en mass, start participating in top level PVE, and I don't buy it at all. The onus is on your to prove this is a legitimate concern, so go ahead; take the top 200 players in each bracket and determine how many of them have any history at all of clearing mythic PVE content. Sure, PVPers don't clear mythic now because conquest gear is better than mythic gear, but I'm saying that even if mythic gear is better than conquest, only a small % of PVPers are going to 1) care enough to want to PVE to get it, and 2) either play in a PVE guild capable of clearing mythic or pay for a mythic carry, which most guilds who aren't on farm aren't going to do.

This is bs, im sorry but do you remember the days when pve gear was bis in arena? Everyone high rated had the highest difficulty raidgear, its just become the requirement. People actually got stuff like shadowmourne as pvpers just to be able to win easier. Or how every rogue in cata had legendary daggers? Pve isnt so hard that the top rated arena players arent capable of clearing mythic if they have too.

If its a 2% difference thats already to much.

[meathead]

Seems like some people don’t get it, the problem is not mythic raiders doing pvp, nobody cares about dragonslayers,
The real problem is pvpers doing pve in order to get bis gear, and I’m sure if legion comes back again with the woltk system I’m out, not gonna raid again that’s for sure.
Bis raid gear should come from raids
Bis pvp gear should come from pvp, period

agree with you 100%

if you guys want to see whats going to happened when wow removes pvp gear check out rift.rift removed pvp gear and raid gear i snow in fact 100% bis for any and all pvp.in wfs/bgs there are gear caps it keep things somewhat close but even there raid gear has better stats.open world pvp is dead and raid gear far outweighs any other gear in game.

the same will happen to wow,the "pvp gear" you earn will be weaker then what raiders get and you be at a disadvantage,pretty fing sad.

[Deleted]

agree with you 100%

if you guys want to see whats going to happened when wow removes pvp gear check out rift.rift removed pvp gear and raid gear i snow in fact 100% bis for any and all pvp.in wfs/bgs there are gear caps it keep things somewhat close but even there raid gear has better stats.open world pvp is dead and raid gear far outweighs any other gear in game.

the same will happen to wow,the "pvp gear" you earn will be weaker then what raiders get and you be at a disadvantage,pretty fing sad.

Honestly comes down to impementation. If you would downscale gear in pvp to quest item lvl it wouldn't matter unless raiding has unique BiS stat combinations.

[Gorgodeus]

Honestly comes down to impementation. If you would downscale gear in pvp to quest item lvl it wouldn't matter unless raiding has unique BiS stat combinations.

Stats will not mean a thing. Only your ilvl. Each spec will use the exact same template in PvP, and then that template is slightly buffed as your ilvl increases.

[Deleted]

Stats will not mean a thing. Only your ilvl. Each spec will use the exact same template in PvP, and then that template is slightly buffed as your ilvl increases.

I'm aware, my comment was how you could have a decent system, not how it is.

[meathead]

Honestly comes down to impementation. If you would downscale gear in pvp to quest item lvl it wouldn't matter unless raiding has unique BiS stat combinations.

it just cant work without some aspect being left behind.no matter how close the gear gap is one will be better then the other.rift is the perfect example,all the pvers say its only 10-15% difference in the gear,but thats only in wfs and in open world its not even close.

i just cant see how blizz can say here pvpers here is a chest/helm/gloves ect that have the same stats on them as end game raiders gear.rift is not doing that and that game is more or less a wow clone.then you also have to factor in how fast one can earn thier gear.we all know raid bosses drop BIS items,so how does a pvper keep pace when they dont get boss drops?how it works on rift = it take so so so much longer to gear up by pvping then it does pveing,all for weaker gear.

in rift one can earn "pvp gear" all rng from a box for winning wfs/bgs.this gear is = to dungeon gear and can be upgraded to T1 "soon up gradable to T2.the "item level cap" in wfs/bgs is T2 gear "or a little higher" but the new T3 gear is out and it does get down bolstered some but still is a stat gain over T2.thats only in wfs open world its not even close,T3 raid gear = bis by a mile.

so basically "pvp gear" in rift is always one tier behind raid gear,lame right?yeah yeah i know rift is not wow but that leads to the question =how can blizz give the same gear to pvpers as they can end game raiders? i was thinking about dropping rift and coming back to wow,but not after i seen the gear change thing.it will be like i said,pvpers will earn a "lessor" type of pve gear by pvping all the while the raiders will earn better gear faster.

you can see it by blizz trying to force this new epic weapon class thing on the players.if everone can earn teh same weapon "depending on spec" they dont have to worry about where/how players get their pvp and pve weapons,everyone will have the same.

rift lost so so many players do to the dumb ass gear change,if wow does the same it will be the nail in the coffin.i said it before and i will say it again,the wow killer will be wow itself.

i would say jump over to the rift official forums and read through the pvp section and/or post on wow's official forums about what i said.

[Blithe]

I'm just wondering how this is going to work in the open world.

All this sounds great, but the thought of going back to Timeless Isle-times where Heroic-geared players dominated everyone (including PvP players with Resilience) because of their ridiculously inflated statistics is scary.

I just hope they have something to stop that from happening.