[Balance] Legion Discussion

[Spitfiyah]

I've only been maining boomkin since the start of this current tier, how will the new rotation work? Do we just use wrath as our filler/generator, Lunar Strike as our main cleave and starsurge/starfall as our dump?

[Cyous]

I've only been maining boomkin since the start of this current tier, how will the new rotation work? Do we just use wrath as our filler/generator, Lunar Strike as our main cleave and starsurge/starfall as our dump?

SW/LS are your generator and you will alternate them. (Not in an "ABABABAB" sense). With Full Moon, you will swap your primary generator to LS.

To know what to use next, you will use Starsurge and get your empowerment buffs, 1 of each (stacks up to 3 for each spell: LS, and SW). Then you simply burn your empowerment buffs. You may want to hold onto 3 charges for your "strongest filler when you need it" as to react to Trinket procs and such.

I can go into more detail, but not quite ready for that. Just know that you'll be alternating your generators, and using your spenders to buff your generators.

[thedeisel]

The basic rotation, pre-talents, but with the artifact, seems to be to keep dots up, cast wrath as filler, use owlkin frenzy procs on lunar strike, but cast srike to avoid capping lunar empowerment charges. In that rotation, the dot lengths aren't so bad. Yes, you're casting dots frequently, but it makes moonkin effectively extremely mobile and certainly gives it a pretty quick pace to the rotation.

Rolling in the talents, it seems like the tree has at least to basic kinds of specs built into it. [tbh, i'm ignoring collapsing star for the time being until it's clearer how it works and whether the tuning will permit it]

A multi-dot (2-3 target), passive ap generating spec built around Shooting Stars (obviously the details on the proc mechanism will be massively important), nature's balance, and the blessing of anshe buff from blessing of the ancients. This spec runs wrath as its filler and tries to minimize sunfire casts. Ideally, this would pair nicely with Stellar flare.

A single target, more burst oriented spec where the game play is about pooling ap and empowerments to burst around starsurge/lunar strike. This spec would go with starlord, full moon, and the blessing of elune buff from blessing of the ancients. here you'd have lunar strike as the builder, managing/pooling ap and lunar empowerment charges to dump them with trinket/enchant procs. Soul of the Forest would play nicely with this if Incarnation doesn't match up with the length of the fight (and, presumably, we don't have the massive burst cd w/o the legendary to stack with incarnation).

Obviously all of this depends on the tuning of the talents, but those are at least two different kinds of specs you can see in the tree. Hopefully the tuning gets worked out well enough that we have real choice whether to emphasize one or the other aspect of the spec.

Compared to the current iteration of moonkin, the very possibility of two relatively distinct play styles seems like a breath of fresh air.

[Owlkin]

Don't count on Vermuund's Beads of Great Convergence. Most legendaries are class specific. And their number match spec count plus some support items like resurect neclace. And our legendary is known. It's Amice of the Dreamweaver.

And description of Vermuund's Beads of Great Convergence: "Armed only with an axe, war chants, and this string of beads, a great vrykul runepriest slew the stormwing matriach Himel'Ingrir."

[huth]

<snip>

I think BotA is mostly going to depend on how much hard casting you can do. Generators produce 6 AP/s baseline, so you'd have to spend less than half your time on them for An'she to be better than Elune, and that's at 0 haste.

Unless An'she scales with haste, Elune is going to get better as gear improves as well. We should probably suggest it does, or it might become useless later on.

[Madus]

I think BotA is mostly going to depend on how much hard casting you can do. Generators produce 6 AP/s baseline, so you'd have to spend less than half your time on them for An'she to be better than Elune, and that's at 0 haste.

Unless An'she scales with haste, Elune is going to get better as gear improves as well. We should probably suggest it does, or it might become useless later on.

Unless An'she is mean to be strong as Elune . If they make it swapable in combat it can be still worth for movement/aoe/pvp and An'she would be just utility addition while Elune is mainstream.

[Gapezilla]

We're missing a minor and the active ability obviously isn't finished. Most of what you mention is in major traits.

I'll admit I know little of how the structuring of the classes' talents are supposed to work at this point as I don't see a point in wasting my time learning every detail while stuff is still subject to change. That being said I'm just voicing my opinion of how it looks as of right now, which in comparison to other classes is extremely dull, both in regards to class power and "fantasy".

[huth]

I'll admit I know little of how the structuring of the classes' talents are supposed to work at this point as I don't see a point in wasting my time learning every detail while stuff is still subject to change. That being said I'm just voicing my opinion of how it looks as of right now, which in comparison to other classes is extremely dull, both in regards to class power and "fantasy".

I dunno, getting a power boost from the Moon Goddess and autocasting Summon: Goldrinn when you cast Starsurge sounds both pretty cool and rather powerfull to me.

[Cyous]

I think BotA is mostly going to depend on how much hard casting you can do. Generators produce 6 AP/s baseline, so you'd have to spend less than half your time on them for An'she to be better than Elune, and that's at 0 haste.

Unless An'she scales with haste, Elune is going to get better as gear improves as well. We should probably suggest it does, or it might become useless later on.

My spreadsheet shows that BotA contribute 3.6 AsP/s (bumps SW/LS to 10.8 AsP/s) due to the interaction with Starsurge. This is at 20% Haste.

With 0.00% Haste, BotA contributes 3 AsP/s (bumps spells to 9.00).

Your math is correct. I am simply confirming and giving more information for you to digest.

To all others ~ keep in mind we don't know the spell rotation yet, and DOTs as 12/8sec really needs to change for gameplay's sake.

- - - Updated - - -

I'll admit I know little of how the structuring of the classes' talents are supposed to work at this point as I don't see a point in wasting my time learning every detail while stuff is still subject to change. That being said I'm just voicing my opinion of how it looks as of right now, which in comparison to other classes is extremely dull, both in regards to class power and "fantasy".

Our rotation is quite complex, as it comes default. Not the Madden spec, but with active talents, it could be.

[Gapezilla]

Our rotation is quite complex, as it comes default. Not the Madden spec, but with active talents, it could be.

Oh that's not what I'm talking about, I just mean the weapon talents seem pretty boring flavor wise compared to other classes. The spec does seem to have some good depth even in these early stages, I'm not at all upset about that. Guess the way I worded my post kind of implies the opposite, my bad.

[Madus]

Oh that's not what I'm talking about, I just mean the weapon talents seem pretty boring flavor wise compared to other classes. The spec does seem to have some good depth even in these early stages, I'm not at all upset about that. Guess the way I worded my post kind of implies the opposite, my bad.

To me they look quite similiar...its probably just effect that more people know sargerai/old god/thaurasian like goldrinn

Balance	Elemental	Shadow	Destruction
--------------------------	--------------------------	--------------------------	--------------------------
Moon and Stars While in Celestial Alignment, each spell cast grants an additional 3% cast speed buff.	Elemental Empowerment Casting a Nature spell increases the damage of your Fire spells by x% for until cancelled. Casting a Fire spell increases the damage of your Nature spells by x% for until cancelled.	Mass Hysteria Each stack of Voidform increases the damage of your Shadow Word: Pain and Vampiric Touch by x%.	Conflagration of Chaos Your Conflagrate always crits, and critical strike rating increases its crit damage.
--------------------------	--------------------------	--------------------------	--------------------------
Power of Goldrinn Casting Starsurge summons the spirit of Goldrinn who bites the target's soul. [Area trigger line nuke]	Fury of the Stormlord When you summon your Lightning Elemental, Thorim will crash down next to you, dealing damage to nearby targets and sending blasts of lightning towards all targets affected by Flame Shock.	Power of the Old Gods You summon a Faceless Void from to aid you in battle for until cancelled who casts devastating void spells at your target.Replaces Shadowfiend.	Regard of the Sargerai Your spells have a x% chance to trigger Doomfire.
--------------------------	--------------------------	--------------------------	--------------------------
Scion of the Night Sky Elune's light has a chance to bless an area, substantially increasing the power of the next two spells cast from within it.	Volcanic Inferno Casting Lava Burst generates a fiery orb around yourself. When you reach x orbs, your next Lava Burst will cause an eruption of molten lava under the target.	Sphere of Insanity When you enter Voidform, you summon a void sphere for until cancelled. While this sphere is active, x% of all direct damage dealt is additionally dealt to any target with your Shadow Word: Pain on them.	Stuff of the Universe Your spells can punch holes in the walls of time and space, opening beneficial portals.

[Cyous]

Oh that's not what I'm talking about, I just mean the weapon talents seem pretty boring flavor wise compared to other classes. The spec does seem to have some good depth even in these early stages, I'm not at all upset about that. Guess the way I worded my post kind of implies the opposite, my bad.

No worries friend

[Casseille]

To all others ~ keep in mind we don't know the spell rotation yet, and DOTs as 12/8sec really needs to change for gameplay's sake.

The 12 second Moonfire and the 8 second Sunfire are datamined durations, correct? Did we get a confirmation from Blizzard that these durations are correct? Because in their own Legion class preview series they have Moonfire at 18 seconds and Sunfire at 14 seconds.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/199...uid-11-11-2015

[huth]

Oh that's not what I'm talking about, I just mean the weapon talents seem pretty boring flavor wise compared to other classes. The spec does seem to have some good depth even in these early stages, I'm not at all upset about that. Guess the way I worded my post kind of implies the opposite, my bad.

I think you're just being overly critical of what we got and to generous with the others. Minors generally aren't to interesting for any class, and for Majors we seem fairly on par with the rest. IMO even a little above.

The 12 second Moonfire and the 8 second Sunfire are datamined durations, correct? Did we get a confirmation from Blizzard that these durations are correct? Because in their own Legion class preview series they have Moonfire at 18 seconds and Sunfire at 14 seconds.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/199...uid-11-11-2015

Let's hope the Preview ones are the intended numbers now.

[PursueTheChase]

IMO, even though some of the stuff on the artifact seems a bit dull, it ties in really well with the talents without being too restrictive in build paths which is great. Also, here's to hoping MF and SF are indeed 18 and 14 sec long.

[dark666105]

I could see the 12/8 second length dots being the non augmented ones, meaning balance gets longer ones but other specs/people going balance affinity get the shorter ones.

[PursueTheChase]

They are both exactly 6 seconds longer in the preview, so that could be it.

[Cyous]

The 12 second Moonfire and the 8 second Sunfire are datamined durations, correct? Did we get a confirmation from Blizzard that these durations are correct? Because in their own Legion class preview series they have Moonfire at 18 seconds and Sunfire at 14 seconds.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/199...uid-11-11-2015

I suspect the durations are 18:14sec. 12:8 does not look right. I'd trust the blog values. (Since they are more recent than the Legion Alpha build).

[Owlkin]

I suspect the durations are 18:14sec. 12:8 does not look right. I'd trust the blog values. (Since they are more recent than the Legion Alpha build).

We still have couple placeholders in our artifact.

[Adramelch]

I could see the 12/8 second length dots being the non augmented ones, meaning balance gets longer ones but other specs/people going balance affinity get the shorter ones.

That's most probably it, as it's backed up by the preview:

Balance:
Moonfire
45 yd range, Instant
A quick beam of lunar light burns an enemy for minor Arcane damage and then an additional strong Arcane damage over 18 sec.

Guardian:
Moonfire
40 yd range, Instant
A quick beam of lunar light burns the enemy for minor Arcane damage and then an additional strong Arcane damage over 12 sec.