[Balance] Legion Discussion

[wyrdone64]

That's most probably it, as it's backed up by the preview:

Balance:
Moonfire
45 yd range, Instant
A quick beam of lunar light burns an enemy for minor Arcane damage and then an additional strong Arcane damage over 18 sec.

Guardian:
Moonfire
40 yd range, Instant
A quick beam of lunar light burns the enemy for minor Arcane damage and then an additional strong Arcane damage over 12 sec.

Definitely better. Would like about 6 more seconds on each on top of that, but its manageable.

[huth]

I could see the 12/8 second length dots being the non augmented ones, meaning balance gets longer ones but other specs/people going balance affinity get the shorter ones.

Problem being that we have no passive or other effect that would facilitate that currently. Though that might just be a missing spell. For now, we should probably wait for Druids actually being available in the beta before we panic.

[Gapezilla]

I think you're just being overly critical of what we got and to generous with the others. Minors generally aren't to interesting for any class, and for Majors we seem fairly on par with the rest. IMO even a little above.

Perhaps. I'm slowly warming up to the idea of the giant spirit wolf, the wording on the ability is just really horrendous.

[huth]

Perhaps. I'm slowly warming up to the idea of the giant spirit wolf, the wording on the ability is just really horrendous.

Well, keep in mind that this is the unfinished, pre-alpha version of the weapon still, and text changes are generally pretty cheap on dev resources. Lots of Artifact text is going to get changed between now and release. "Stuff of the Universe" comes to mind...

[Alame]

Scythe of Elune talents are nowhere close to finished - that's obvious by Moon & Stars being 100% useless if you take Collapsing Stars as your level 100 talent. Blizzard does some dumb things but the end-game portion of our artifact tree isn't going to be made completely irrelevant by (IMHO) our most interesting level 100 talent.

[Gapezilla]

You say that but if the idea is for Collapsing Stars to be some kind of ranged arcane version of Breath of Sindragosa I wouldn't be surprised if they're not specifically designing the class or the weapon with it in mind. The different dk specs have gone through a lot of sneaky clever uses of game mechanics just to make BoS relevant, with the only spec that seems to have direct support for it being blood dk and their multistrike bonus passive and the (now removed) chains of ice glyph and the other specs having to do some really dumb shit like chain resetting bosses to start the fight with full rp, or finding a source of magic dmg to ams soak for rp before a pull.

tl;dr I hope this is more fleshed out than BoS was initially because it seems like it has a lot of potential, but I'm pretty cynical.

[Alame]

You say that but if the idea is for Collapsing Stars to be some kind of ranged arcane version of Breath of Sindragosa I wouldn't be surprised if they're not specifically designing the class or the weapon with it in mind. The different dk specs have gone through a lot of sneaky clever uses of game mechanics just to make BoS relevant, with the only spec that seems to have direct support for it being blood dk and their multistrike bonus passive and the (now removed) chains of ice glyph and the other specs having to do some really dumb shit like chain resetting bosses to start the fight with full rp, or finding a source of magic dmg to ams soak for rp before a pull.

tl;dr I hope this is more fleshed out than BoS was initially because it seems like it has a lot of potential, but I'm pretty cynical.

Yeah I get the whole BoS comparison but I was under the impression that a big shift in Legion was about simplifying base rotations and making talents (and artifact talents) interact with the base rotation & each other to create meaningful playstyles. That talent needs to see a change to actually impact the CS playstyle - otherwise it's wasted talent points in that playstyle. If CS ends up BoS-style then make the talent reduce the AP consumption of CS by X% (and I would say start with something hefty like 20% that reduces by half for every 2s CS remains active) or if CS is Arcane-missles-style channeled make it increase the channel speed.

[Gapezilla]

Maybe if we're lucky we'll get some answers with the next alpha build.

[Deleted]

So far the only way to cheese AP regn. is Prepull generation and Shooting Stars. Shooting stars requires multiple targets, which doesn't happen a lot at the same time you'd want to CS, and it's not likely it will give enough AP to extend it by more than a few seconds anyway. Knowing how dumb prepull generation of resources have been in the past, I have faith in blizzard to fuck this up royally (have fun looking for critters before each Baleroc pull).

[Owlkin]

So far the only way to cheese AP regn. is Prepull generation and Shooting Stars. Shooting stars requires multiple targets, which doesn't happen a lot at the same time you'd want to CS, and it's not likely it will give enough AP to extend it by more than a few seconds anyway. Knowing how dumb prepull generation of resources have been in the past, I have faith in blizzard to fuck this up royally (have fun looking for critters before each Baleroc pull).

We don't know default AP level. It can be set to 100 and regen to full out of combat.

[huth]

So far the only way to cheese AP regn. is Prepull generation and Shooting Stars. Shooting stars requires multiple targets, which doesn't happen a lot at the same time you'd want to CS, and it's not likely it will give enough AP to extend it by more than a few seconds anyway. Knowing how dumb prepull generation of resources have been in the past, I have faith in blizzard to fuck this up royally (have fun looking for critters before each Baleroc pull).

Heavily depends on how AP works in that regard, too. Does it decay, at what level does it start, can we use An'she to fill the bar out of combat(obviously not with CS) etc.

[Madus]

So far the only way to cheese AP regn. is Prepull generation and Shooting Stars. Shooting stars requires multiple targets, which doesn't happen a lot at the same time you'd want to CS, and it's not likely it will give enough AP to extend it by more than a few seconds anyway. Knowing how dumb prepull generation of resources have been in the past, I have faith in blizzard to fuck this up royally (have fun looking for critters before each Baleroc pull).

Shieeeeeeeet, now we should get a new spell

Call of Nature
Instant 5 sec cooldown (15 sec duration)
Druid(Balance) - LVL 50 
Summon 5 various forest critters. 
When there is more like 5 critters mind link with druid break and they start killing eachother.

[Cyous]

So far the only way to cheese AP regn. is Prepull generation and Shooting Stars. Shooting stars requires multiple targets, which doesn't happen a lot at the same time you'd want to CS, and it's not likely it will give enough AP to extend it by more than a few seconds anyway. Knowing how dumb prepull generation of resources have been in the past, I have faith in blizzard to fuck this up royally (have fun looking for critters before each Baleroc pull).

FWIW: Demon Hunter Fury or w/e doesn't decay. I think decay might be gone.

[Deleted]

FWIW: Demon Hunter Fury or w/e doesn't decay. I think decay might be gone.

That would be a change for the better, assuming you can generate it out of combat somehow, but all expansions up til this point you have been able to cheese resources prepull on one class or another (hello dks), so I wouldn't count on it.

[huth]

FWIW: Demon Hunter Fury or w/e doesn't decay. I think decay might be gone.

Well, it's different for different classes. Shadow Orbs don't decay, Chi does, 6.x Demonology Demonic Fury decays rapidly after a delay, but only to 20%(and rises to 20% if below that) etc.

So that DH Fury doesn't decay doesn't mean anything for other classes.

[Cyous]

Well, it's different for different classes. Shadow Orbs don't decay, Chi does, 6.x Demonology Demonic Fury decays rapidly after a delay, but only to 20%(and rises to 20% if below that) etc.

So that DH Fury doesn't decay doesn't mean anything for other classes.

True. There is no correlation. Though, it would be a "class design" thing ~ more-so a global function for all non-Energy classes. Worth a suggestion to the devs.

[Dreyen]

TBH i'd rather have everything decay... Do you really want to go back to cata where you found critter in firelands to build up eclipse?

[Fearsom1992]

Dude calling it now Boomkin is going to blow fking bosses up LOL! owlkin frenzy procs randomly gg I like the talents because there is so much choice ;-;, I can't wait to see the math on collapsing star

[Lahis]

TBH i'd rather have everything decay... Do you really want to go back to cata where you found critter in firelands to build up eclipse?

I'd prefer to have a good opener instead of wasting prepot building up AP to really start nuking...

[Alame]

Hopefully if there is some wonky pre-pull AP generation necessary we can be loud and obnoxious about it during beta and get it changed. Wouldn't be the first time some awful mechanic has made it past beta feedback though.