Advice for improving dps as balance

[Infinux]

Just started trying to push progression properly in HFC (cleared 13/13, trialing to get into mythic team). I wanted to see if the fellow lazerchickens on MMO-Champ could offer me advice as to how to improve my dps on fights? I can't post links due to me being new to MMOC so go under Warcraftlogs.com, guild is Mystique on Frostmourne (Alliance), character n is Anymorph.

Dps on iskar/xhul/zak/soc got screwed by network but archimonde and lower citadel were alright as a whole (in terms of network). I'm 720 yet my numbers don't really seem to match what they could/should be? I'm wondering how much impact lacking DSI has (I have 730 sandman's/BoA/H SOC to choose from for trinkets) has on my performance? Also how much impact lacking the legendary ring has.

Appreciate any comments and advice anyone has.

[huth]

Ring is huge, especially since you're probably competing with fully upgraded rings. You're looking at millions of damage per use.

[Infinux]

Ah I see, how about the effect of DSI?

[Skagasm]

The BoA is reasonably close to a heroic DSI even on non-demon fights. Tightening up your rotation, especially your openning burst, will make a much larger difference than trinket upgrades. For starters Inc and CA need to be on separate keybinds and staggered with Inc a couple GCDs before the pull (inc invokes the gcd, ca does not).

[Infinux]

Ah okay I will go read up on openers again. So is the BoA better than sandman's in all fights? And I was wondering if there are fights in HFC where sandmans/boa will outperform using hsoc?

[Seikusa]

The only fights you might (depending on the other trinkets) not want to use SoC is kormrok and zakuun.
On every other fight SoC reigns supreme.

[huth]

The only fights you might (depending on the other trinkets) not want to use SoC is kormrok and zakuun.
On every other fight SoC reigns supreme.

Depends on the tactics used. On M Gorefiend, tactics might even make SoC completely unusable, especially if you have many DKs.

[xtramuscle]

The only fights you might (depending on the other trinkets) not want to use SoC is kormrok and zakuun.
On every other fight SoC reigns supreme.

Also kill timers effect SoC usage, no point using it on Iron reaver, let hunters barrage bombs while you zerg boss if you can kill it in <50 seconds I'd say. Starfall usually does around 300k to our bombs, unless im in the middle of some awesome spread one. With only 300k I'd rather have another set of empowered starfires on the boss under incarnation, ca, pot and trinkets.

[Infinux]

I was re-looking at my parse on heroic hellfire citadel (25th dec raid) compared to those of other boomkins who were around my ilvl but pulling way larger numbers and I realized that starfall seems to do comparatively less %of my damage compared to the other boomies. Any opinions?

[xtramuscle]

I was re-looking at my parse on heroic hellfire citadel (25th dec raid) compared to those of other boomkins who were around my ilvl but pulling way larger numbers and I realized that starfall seems to do comparatively less %of my damage compared to the other boomies. Any opinions?

starfall is a dps gain with only 20 stars in lunar, 30 in solar. (at any time, aka 3 targets for 10 seconds or 10 targets for 3 seconds (over a ss and empowerments).

if you use soc, depending on your crit and shooting star procs, u want as close to 100% uptime as possible. Assuming u can't get that high, you need to prioritize your ss uses to allow for best results. ie don't waste a ss for empowerments if there is only 2 mobs up, save down time for low mob counts, so you can maximize your chance of getting starfall up when there's many more mobs for it to hit.

That's the cringe thing about hc soc now, it has a great chance to proc starfall, but still doesn't guarantee it. Totally worth buying an archi boost to get mythic trinket and taking that will it/wont it out of the equation lol

[Orionid]

To answer your questions directly, having trinkets will not have as big an impact on your DPS as having Legendary Ring. The scaling the Legendary Ring does with damage is absolutely fucking broken and not having it will put you SIGNIFICANTLY behind the rest of the raid. I'm 723 w/out Ring so I feel the struggle. Do whatever you can to get it ASAP. Starting from scratch right now will take you 2 months to get Legendary if you do everything you can every day.

For Trinket information refer to the Balance trinkets as of 6.2.3 thread. Here xtramuscle and I discuss what trinkets to use for what fights specifically. There is also a Balance Druid Guide that you can find the basics of DPS as Fatbird on (this isn't up to date as of 6.2 however the general principles have not changed since 6.0. The last page I'm involved with some general discussion on the Opener (below) and DPS in general.

Trinkets (general use):
For all fights trinket usage should be Seed of Corruption (SoC) and Desecrated Shadowmoon Insignia (DSI) outside of a few circumstances:
- The demon bosses listed above: one should swap out DSI for Orb of Voidsight (OoV). Aside from Zakuun which is a Single target fight and thus SoC should be swapped for OoV instead.
- Unless you need help killing Graspin Hands, Iron Reaver Piston (IRP) should be used instead of SoC, therefore coupled with DSI on Kormrok.

It is worth noting this is assuming Mythic Trinkets. OoV is virtually on par with Mythic DSI, the delta isn't very noticeable, this does NOT assume 2/2 upgraded. That being said OoV is stronger than Heroic DSI for Demon fights.

"A bit generic, I'd argue Sandman's should replace SOC on Iron reaver, and OoV on Kormrok fight length depending." -xtramuscle in response to my general statements. These go into much greater detail for a much higher level of play.

Opener:
• Incarn at ~2.5 seconds, then wait for GCD to reset (you don’t want to pop CA the same second you pop Incarn because then you will waste the first GCD worth of time in CA in a GCD – CA is off the GCD – If I confused you with this statement ask)
• CA/Prepot ~1.5 seconds
• SS at ~ 1 second
• MF on pull (will also apply SF)
• SFx2
• SS
• SFx2
• Repeat depending on what eclipse you’re in

Tips:
• Keep dots up 100%, keep dots up 100% or don’t play a dot class.
• Never be capped at 3 charges of SS, if you get a shooting stars proc at 3, you just wasted a cast of SS.
• Get the most out of the ring/your trinket procs: If there is 2 seconds left on ring/trinket and you know you can’t get another SF off before they expire, I almost always throw an extra SS (or two depending on my stacks) out for the extra buff – even if it will refresh an already 2 or 3 stack of empowered.
• If you are only at 1 charge of SS and in solar eclipse, save it for lunar eclipse, even if it means you will be casting wraths without empowered (I would rather be casting un-empowered wraths than un-empowered SF’s). For fights with consistent aoe to adds, adjust this to be, throw out SS anytime Starfall is about to fall off.

[xtramuscle]

A couple of points to add: @Orionid
You shouldn't be pre CA'ing. it's off the gcd, so you're simply just losing 1.5 seconds of your best cooldown.
So I pre SS at -1.5 to allow travel time and CA (with moonfire macro'd in) on 0.
This way, sure you lose out on ca for your first ss, but you get 1.5 seconds longer of CA/ring

As for never getting capped at 3 charges you're right, but could still improve. If you have 3 charges and gain shooting stars that charge is completely wasted. What you haven't accounted for is if you have 2 charges, wait 10 seconds (recharging) and then get a proc. Yeah it puts you on 3 charges, and while you have technically gained a charge, you've still wasted 10 seconds recharging. If you had been on 1 charge at the time, you gain a 2nd charge and generate a 3rd 10 seconds later. In your scenario you gain a 3rd but will not generate a 4th until 20 seconds later assuming you spend the 3rd charge instantly.

One final thing, I think I'd prefer dsi/oov as a combo on tyrant over soc/oov. We actually lust on pull making oov massive burst, but if you execute the fight well, starfall doesn't do huge amounts of damage anyway (ideally only having a max of 2 mobs most of the fight).

[huth]

In your scenario you gain a 3rd but will not generate a 4th until 20 seconds later assuming you spend the 3rd charge instantly.

30 seconds, as it resets your charge timer, actually.

So unless you're storing them up for an upcoming phase, you should generally not have more than 1 charge banked at any time, or you risk losing them.(well, you can still get back to back procs, but that's rare)

[xtramuscle]

30 seconds, as it resets your charge timer, actually.

So unless you're storing them up for an upcoming phase, you should generally not have more than 1 charge banked at any time, or you risk losing them.(well, you can still get back to back procs, but that's rare)

for some reason was thinking it was a 20 sec recharge.. 30 seconds is a lifetime!

[Skagasm]

I feel like the nature of the trinket advice got a little out of control for this guy's progression/gear level. As long as your guild is getting air phases in Iron Reaver, SoC is by far the best trinket you can use.

[huth]

for some reason was thinking it was a 20 sec recharge.. 30 seconds is a lifetime!

Well, 20s is the baseline time between two SS procs, so you're looking at a new charge every 12s on average even with 0 stats in everything as long as you keep DoTs up.

1 recharge + 1.5 from procs in 30s, 2.5/30s = 5/60s = 1/12s
Also, 2 DoTs, 2s tick timer, 5% proc chance per tick, so on average 1 proc every 20 ticks, which takes 20s at 0 haste.

[Orionid]

I feel like the nature of the trinket advice got a little out of control for this guy's progression/gear level. As long as your guild is getting air phases in Iron Reaver, SoC is by far the best trinket you can use.

And that is why I began with the general use Trinkets advice. The best generic advice is just use SoC and DSI on everything. That's for the casual player or player too lazy to do additional research or player that doesn't care about min/maxing.

Also why the final line of the Trinket section says

These go into much greater detail for a much higher level of play.

[Disinvolto]

A couple of points to add: @Orionid
You shouldn't be pre CA'ing. it's off the gcd, so you're simply just losing 1.5 seconds of your best cooldown.
So I pre SS at -1.5 to allow travel time and CA (with moonfire macro'd in) on 0.
This way, sure you lose out on ca for your first ss, but you get 1.5 seconds longer of CA/ring

As for never getting capped at 3 charges you're right, but could still improve. If you have 3 charges and gain shooting stars that charge is completely wasted. What you haven't accounted for is if you have 2 charges, wait 10 seconds (recharging) and then get a proc. Yeah it puts you on 3 charges, and while you have technically gained a charge, you've still wasted 10 seconds recharging. If you had been on 1 charge at the time, you gain a 2nd charge and generate a 3rd 10 seconds later. In your scenario you gain a 3rd but will not generate a 4th until 20 seconds later assuming you spend the 3rd charge instantly.

One final thing, I think I'd prefer dsi/oov as a combo on tyrant over soc/oov. We actually lust on pull making oov massive burst, but if you execute the fight well, starfall doesn't do huge amounts of damage anyway (ideally only having a max of 2 mobs most of the fight).

I'm glad to hear someone else shares my opener thoughts.

[Harekrsna]

starfall is a dps gain with only 20 stars in lunar, 30 in solar. (at any time, aka 3 targets for 10 seconds or 10 targets for 3 seconds (over a ss and empowerments).

if you use soc, depending on your crit and shooting star procs, u want as close to 100% uptime as possible. Assuming u can't get that high, you need to prioritize your ss uses to allow for best results. ie don't waste a ss for empowerments if there is only 2 mobs up, save down time for low mob counts, so you can maximize your chance of getting starfall up when there's many more mobs for it to hit.

That's the cringe thing about hc soc now, it has a great chance to proc starfall, but still doesn't guarantee it. Totally worth buying an archi boost to get mythic trinket and taking that will it/wont it out of the equation lol

500k+ gold to give yourself a very modest improvement on proc chance for a potential modest dps gain in a tier thats already over anyways?

Maybe if you have several gold capped toons lying around with nothing to spend the gold on.

[huth]

500k+ gold to give yourself a very modest improvement on proc chance for a potential modest dps gain in a tier thats already over anyways?

Maybe if you have several gold capped toons lying around with nothing to spend the gold on.

It's a major overvaluing of the actual benefit provided by having a guaranteed proc instead of a nearly guaranteed one. Same reasoning that makes some advocate getting M SoC to 2/2 before upgrading your weapon, or claim the shipyard is worthless because you can't have everything at 100%.