Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Kolvarg]

They shut it down because players showed that REALLY DID WANT VANILLA, champ. The hundreds of thousands of "signatures" on that petition also showed that, champ.

everything's about money, because Blizzard is a business, champ.

That makes absolutely no sense. If it's all about the money, and hundreds of thousands of people want Vanilla and making Vanilla servers is simple, easy and straightforward, logic says they would just go the easy way and just open those servers and make money off those hundreds of thousands of people, no?

Again, while I do support the idea of Legacy servers, and I do believe it can be done in a way where it becomes self-sustainable and doesn't harm the current game, it's just not that simple. You're doing more harm than good to the pro-legacy argument.

Blizzard might be greedy, and be in a lower place than it used to when it comes to their gameplay-first and gamers-first ideology, but it's far from an evil entity feeding on our hopes and dreams like some people paint it.

[Darktbs]

Way to be clueless, champ.
Thinking that a different "engine" (yeah, right) requires different hardware. Well done, champ.



No, champ.

They shut it down because it showed that "you think you do, but you don't" was a retarded approach. They shut it down because players showed that REALLY DID WANT VANILLA, champ. The hundreds of thousands of "signatures" on that petition also showed that, champ.

They didn't shut it down because "they got cocky", champ. They shut it down because hundreds of thousands of players want vanilla, champ...and at the end of day, everything's about money, because Blizzard is a business, champ. It's a business that stopped giving a sh!t about its customers since Activision bought the whole damn thing, champ. Unfortunately, champ, the forums are full of "champs" like you that are quick to support Actiblizzard's actions, no matter how harmful, champ.

Yes because a Private server that only have 3% of the player base of the worst expansion wow ever had is somthing to be afraid of.

[Relapses]

Not saying the will or will not. Saying they likely can. Obviously they won't do it if they don't want to do it.

Not claiming they can just pop it into existence. Not claiming they have unlimited resources. Not claiming it's simple. Claiming it can be done without significantly harming live WoW for the current players, or significantly slowing down its content output - Just like working on multiple other games concurrently seemingly haven't. Just like years of development "wasted" with project titan (which did borrow developers from WoW) seemingly haven't.

Creating an entire new IP is a bit different than resurrecting an old version of an already existing game. You cannot compare Blizzard working on Overwatch to something like Legacy. They're not even remotely in the same ballpark. You're asking Blizzard to voluntarily introduce a conflicting version of their own video game so a few extremely vocal WoW players have the satisfaction of legally playing a version of the game which is no longer available. The merits of such an endeavor have already been debated to the point of absurdity in this thread.

Right now, however, Blizzard is focused on the present day. (Ion's response about pristine realms speaks volumes in this regard.) They're looking to make the retail version of the game appealing to both players who prefer Legacy as well those who may be returning after WoD or just starting their journey in WoW. It's this forward-facing prerogative which leads me to believe they don't see Legacy as something worth investing development time upon. I don't think it's completely off the table but given Legion's early signs of success I doubt we'll hear anything substantial on the subject at this year's BlizzCon.

[lavaalamp]

If there were truly hundreds of thousands of players who both wanted and were willing to pay for Vanilla realms then Blizz would make them and profit from it. Since that's not something that's factually accurate in any way shape or form your entire argument falls apart champ.

I think you forgot about the 250k petition, champ.

[Kolvarg]

Creating an entire new IP is a bit different than resurrecting an old version of an already existing game. You cannot compare Blizzard working on Overwatch to something like Legacy. They're not even remotely in the same ballpark. You're asking Blizzard to voluntarily introduce a conflicting version of their own video game so a few extremely vocal WoW players have the satisfaction of legally playing a version of the game which is no longer available. The merits of such an endeavor have already been debated to the point of absurdity in this thread.

Right now, however, Blizzard is focused on the present day. (Ion's response about pristine realms speaks volumes in this regard.) They're looking to make the retail version of the game appealing to both players who prefer Legacy as well those who may be returning after WoD or just starting their journey in WoW. It's this forward-facing prerogative which leads me to believe they don't see Legacy as something worth investing development time upon. I don't think it's completely off the table but given Legion's early signs of success I doubt we'll hear anything substantial on the subject at this year's BlizzCon.

Of course it's a different thing, but how different is it investment/resources wise? It's somethign that is not live WoW development, that will cost the company resources/time. It's arguable if it's "conflicting" or not, considering how different they are when it comes to target audience. Sure, it would possibly "steal" some players from live WoW, but that is also true for any other game or IP they add to the table. By being generally in the same IP they could at least bundle it (ie subscription gives access to both versions of the game, increasing the value of the subscription and total of sales and subscribers, or something like individual $15 sub for legacy, individual $15 sub for live, $20 sub for both - only ideas/examples) and have both versions benefit the overall IP.

When it comes to the exact amount of players that really want / would pay to play and how vocal or not they are it's also arguable, but in the end there's no real evidence that let's us know exact numbers. As far as I'm concerned Legacy would be as likely to have 100k subs as it would 1m subs (though I would be surprised to be more than that).

Don't get me wrong, I'm aware of Blizzard stance so far, and I do understand their situation. I am hopeful (as one would be when finishing an emissary quest and hoping to get a legendary), but I'm not really expecting or waiting for it, especially not in the near future. I was just arguing how it can be done, not if it will or not be done.

When it comes to pristine realms, I don't really think that was really anything more than something they threw out there to see if it catched on as a "replacement" to appease the crowd "begging" for legacy. I don't really think it would fix things or offer what these players really want, though.

It could offer something better (for those players), but in the end the issue they have goes much further than just some mechanical/feature/quality of life tweaks, it's something heavily related to the design and content itself. Personally I would welcome some versions of pristine realms, but I think they would be even more niche than legacy - Legacy at least has the nostalgia factor, and it's already well defined on what it is and what it isn't. Pristine is not defined, any many players have different ideas and wishes on what pristine could/should be.

[Deleted]

If there were truly hundreds of thousands of players who both wanted and were willing to pay for Vanilla realms then Blizz would make them and profit from it. Since that's not something that's factually accurate in any way shape or form your entire argument falls apart champ.

You're incredibly clueless, champ.

This is the petition sent by the Nostalrius team - https://www.change.org/p/mike-morhai...raft-community

I assume that even you can read the amount of signatures?

Anecdotal, but everyone I know in WoW - EVERY.SINGLE.PERSON - would go back to either vanilla or BC (that's where they're somewhat split). EVERYONE...champ. The only reason for which they're not playing on private servers is that they'd feel bad if they finally leveled up, got the gear, had a good thing going and suddenly found everything shut down...champ.

[Gilthresa]

You're incredibly clueless, champ.

This is the petition sent by the Nostalrius team - https://www.change.org/p/mike-morhai...raft-community

I assume that even you can read the amount of signatures?

Anecdotal, but everyone I know in WoW - EVERY.SINGLE.PERSON - would go back to either vanilla or BC (that's where they're somewhat split). EVERYONE...champ. The only reason for which they're not playing on private servers is that they'd feel bad if they finally leveled up, got the gear, had a good thing going and suddenly found everything shut down...champ.

This petition was posted literally fucking everywhere, it was posted on the old school runesccape reddit for Christ sakes... online petitions aren't even close to accurate.

Also that is simply not true.. I played a bc private server and couldn't even stomach the gearing process even though BC was my favourite expansion ever . I would play legion > BC any day.

[Deleted]

This petition was posted literally fucking everywhere, it was posted on the old school runesccape reddit for Christ sakes... online petitions aren't even close to accurate.

So, on one hand, online petitions showing the number of signatures are not accurate. OK. Sure, some people may sign more than once (really, who puts in the effort...), but a few people in this thread have more accurate opinions?

Nostalrius players posted screenshots of how many people were online at the same time - were those "not accurate" as well?

Also that is simply not true.. I played a bc private server and couldn't even stomach the gearing process even though BC was my favourite expansion ever . I would play legion > BC any day.

So, BC was your favourite expansion and...you couldn't even stomach the gearing process through BC? How do those two work?

Gearing in BC was easy enough, but not easy enough to make it unrewarding. Now, some people may like getting an epic for cracking nuts and catching squirrels. Others prefer some rare epic drop off the last boss in a heroic dungeon. I have no complaints about gearing in BC.

[Maudib]

Again, while I do support the idea of Legacy servers, and I do believe it can be done in a way where it becomes self-sustainable and doesn't harm the current game, it's just not that simple.

It IS that easy... how many dudes do you think worked to get the Nostalius server up and running stable? Very few. But they don't want to support old code... I don't blame them for that, but I do blame them for closing down a free to play server with people that WAS supporting the old code.

Compared to the garbage that WoD was and Legion is turning out to be... I would VERY much be interested in replaying vanilla/BC/WotLK.

[dess]

Why is this topic open anymore. Blizz already killed it.

[Enitzu]

Right now, however, Blizzard is focused on the present day. (Ion's response about pristine realms speaks volumes in this regard.) They're looking to make the retail version of the game appealing to both players who prefer Legacy as well those who may be returning after WoD or just starting their journey in WoW. It's this forward-facing prerogative which leads me to believe they don't see Legacy as something worth investing development time upon. I don't think it's completely off the table but given Legion's early signs of success I doubt we'll hear anything substantial on the subject at this year's BlizzCon.

Blizz will never make the current game anything like what it used to be. It will never happen. If they tried to put that level of difficulty and grinding back into the game the servers would freaking implode with crybaby casuals tears. So let's get off this bs train of thought before it leaves the station.

[Kolvarg]

It IS that easy... how many dudes do you think worked to get the Nostalius server up and running stable? Very few.

Sure, few developers, but more work than you think.

Their work was based on the MaNGOS core, which is an ongoing opensource WoW emulation project (oficially, only for educational purposes) that has been actively being worked on by multiple people for over 10 years (so it started in or before 2006).

The development the Nostalrius devs did on top of that opensource emulation software took them 4 years of development.

That's not accounting for battle.net integration and better anti-cheating technology, amongst other things (many wouldn't "need" to be added, I agree. It all depends on how it is presented exactly, I suppose. If it's presented as a purist premium service, for instance, they don't even have to add much of b.net other than to the login system, everything else they "need" to add is "just" security/stability/cheating impromenets, I would suppose).

Of course, this is mostly accounting possibly amateur developers likely working on their free time, but still, it took them at least 8 years of development to get where they got, I'd say that's far from "just need to push a button and legacy servers are up", you know?


No, it isn't that easy. I do believe it's very much possible if they put themselves to it, but not "that" easy.

[Demithio]

I wish people would stop worrying about Blizzard's bank account. Its fine, I assure you. If they wanted to do a vanilla server setup, they could, easily, and add it as a no added cost option to the existing game. Considering the obscene amount of profit they made from WoW over its 12 year course, this would be a simple task. So, please, stop using the "its not profitable" argument.

[Relapses]

Blizz will never make the current game anything like what it used to be. It will never happen. If they tried to put that level of difficulty and grinding back into the game the servers would freaking implode with crybaby casuals tears. So let's get off this bs train of thought before it leaves the station.

Speaking from a personal standpoint as a player whose had an active subscription since 2006, I feel like Legion is the most grindy expansion I've experienced since TBC. But there's enough "other" content that the grind doesn't feel nearly as barren as it did back then. (Orgri'la/Netherwing dailies were the bane of my existence.) I don't think they'll ever reintroduce something that's identical to WoW's early iterations but Legion is proof enough they're not afraid to make their MMO time consuming.

[kary]

Speaking from a personal standpoint as a player whose had an active subscription since 2006, I feel like Legion is the most grindy expansion I've experienced since TBC. But there's enough "other" content that the grind doesn't feel nearly as barren as it did back then. (Orgri'la/Netherwing dailies were the bane of my existence.) I don't think they'll ever reintroduce something that's identical to WoW's early iterations but Legion is proof enough they're not afraid to make their MMO time consuming.

Eh. Legion is only grindy and time consuming if you want it to be.
It's already to the point where you can raid log if you want to.

[Deleted]

Eh. Legion is only grindy and time consuming if you want it to be.
It's already to the point where you can raid log if you want to.

People complaining about not being able to afford 3500g flasks and 1200g pots might disagree. I think there's a thread in here somewhere about that...

- - - Updated - - -

That's nice champ. The petition you linked proved my point as it doesn't verify unique identities. Add in that it has yet to reach its goal... and yeah. Not to mention it's very easy to sign a petition, it doesn't mean you'd ever actually follow through on what the petition is all about. Again, that isn't evidence of hundreds of thousands of people willing to pay to play vanilla or TBC. And your friends wanting to go back in time only proves that they're incredibly nostalgic for something some of us already fully experienced.

That's great champ. You clearly don't know how petitions work - the petition HAS reached its goal, but I guess reading is hard for blizzard fanbois.

To begin with the number of players:

For roughly one year, it was an amazing journey for all of us, and for the 800,000 players who registered an account, including the 150,000 players who were active.

Regarding reaching its goal. Its original "goal" was to reach the 10,000 signatures point. Obviously it went way past that. However, change.org simply shows the next "mark" - in this case, 300,000. If it reached 300,001 signatures now, it would show 300,001 out of 400,000. But I wouldn't expect you to know or understand that, champ.

Have fun living in the past, I'm going to move forward champ.

Oh, gods, were you under the impression that I wanted you to join vanilla?
I apologize, I assure you that nobody among the vanilla fans wants your kind around.

[Relapses]

Eh. Legion is only grindy and time consuming if you want it to be.
It's already to the point where you can raid log if you want to.

The fact that the grinding is optional vs. mandatory is one of the fundamental disillusionments the pro-Legacy crowd has. I personally prefer the former but I understand why there's a subsection of players who feel like the latter is more in line with what they're looking for from a MMO.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't know that because signing change.org petitions is a waste of time champ.

It might be in your basement, champ. In the real world, things do change.
I'm not saying this is going to happen due to this particular petition in this particular case, but in the UK petitions that reach a certain number of signatures are debated in the Parliament, champ.

You learn something knew every day though. Now, show me where that proves that many people would actually pay for a vanilla server and that each signature is unique. That's the crux of the issue here, not the silly way change.org tracks signatures.

1. Sure, let me just stop to show you how many people would pay for a service that doesn't exist anymore. One has to wonder where the world would be if whoever came up with the aspirin was first asked to prove that people would pay for it. Or electricity - I think Tesla died poor.

2. Gee, how about you look at how many people DID PAY for a vanilla server? As in, ask Blizzard how many customers they had, champ. Because, if I remember correctly, MILLIONS of people DID PAY for vanilla - myself included. Now, I'm not saying millions still would, but I'm pretty sure that AT LEAST hundreds of thousands would - and I'm not basing that on that particular petition. The only problem is that we don't get that service "officially" supported and when it's provided by other parties, it's shut down because, unlike you, Blizzard can count.

Is that good enough for you, champ?

[Laqweeta]

YOU made the claim that hundreds of thousands of people would pay for the service. When you make claims like these you have to have something to back them up. And claiming people would pay for a vanilla server now because they already played vanilla is a logical fallacy. Basically you're saying that because millions of people bought disco records in the 70's there's a massive demand for disco music today. That's just not true. Keep trying though champ. One of these days you'll hit something concrete.

https://www.change.org/p/mike-morhai...raft-community I think hundreds of thousands would o.o...

[kary]

People complaining about not being able to afford 3500g flasks and 1200g pots might disagree. I think there's a thread in here somewhere about that...

If you're poor in WoW it's noone's fault but your own. I made 300k barely trying in the first week. Herbalists make more than that. Efficient time management.

Also, if you're at the competitive level to require flasks/pots every night and you don't know how to/can't afford it, you're probably a unicorn with downs.