Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Eliseus]

Then tell your peers to stop linking his thoughts over and over as if they mattered.

That isn't how it works. Support is support regardless. Doesn't mean 1 person is the face, I would have to say if anyone was the face at the moment, it would be the creators of Nost. Someone with experience with Blizzard asserting their opinion and trying to help doesn't represent all of us, but even if he did it is irrelevant. Scraping the bottom of the barrel just for the sake of arguing. You are trying to now turn this into he said, she said, who likes who arguments, and away from the wants of a fan base for this server or not wanting it. Him being the face or not really doesn't matter. The numbers are what matter.

[Gsara]

Then tell your peers to stop linking his thoughts over and over as if they mattered.

Why wouldnt his thoughts matter and why is not ok for him to support the effort for legacy/progression servers made by Blizzard? He was the lead dev for the team that did create wow and he is still good friends with people at Blizz.

[VinylScratch]

Why wouldnt his thoughts matter and why is not ok for him to support the effort for legacy/progression servers made by Blizzard? He was the lead dev for the team that did create wow and he is still good friends with people at Blizz.

Because his opinions don't agree with mine! /kickandscream

Common thing, anyone who is against what these people say is a moron and discredited. Anyone on their side is a genius. Remember how "Blizzard was the most idiotic company in the world" when they said they wouldn't give flight in WoD? Where were these people with "Blizzard knows what they're talking about!" speeches then?

[Tome]

I'm sure it is probably somewhere, but none-the-less how many people actually know some of the info he is saying? There is people who have responded that server costs for example would cost an arm and a leg for Blizzard alone...... Someone with actual experience not just in the field, but with WoW itself. Whether or not he can actually help has become irrelevant to me, but I am actually fascinated with what he could share, and I hope he does more. I don't know of this documentary you speak of though. I don't really keep up with a lot of WoW things, other than month long reactivates on expansion releases and the hopes this server will become a real thing someday. Mind sharing it with me? Really interested in what is in it if you don't mind.

It's pretty interesting I would say, yes. People hyperbole on both sides of the argument, but the server cost and such can't be over the top expensive as some people put it.



That's the documentary at least. I don't know where they mention the sale predictions and such, but I have a vague memory it should be in there somewhere.

[Ielenia]

Because his opinions don't agree with mine! /kickandscream

Because the guy, after leaving Blizzard, seems to have developed some sort of 'inverted Midas' touch', where everything he touched turned to garbage. Firefall, the company he made... His ideas have stopped being good ideas for a long time, and anyone with any sort of critical sense can see the guy's doing this just to get his five minutes of fame after being kicked out of the spotlight thanks to his own shitty actions.

[Tome]

Because the guy, after leaving Blizzard, seems to have developed some sort of 'inverted Midas' touch', where everything he touched turned to garbage. Firefall, the company he made... His ideas have stopped being good ideas for a long time, and anyone with any sort of critical sense can see the guy's doing this just to get his five minutes of fame after being kicked out of the spotlight thanks to his own shitty actions.

Even if his "5 minutes of fame" wish is true, does it matter in this context?

I don't think it matters to these people who it is, as long as it is a person that can reach Mike Morhaime. We know this is not a new game that Mark Kern is going to create, he's going to hand over a petition to Mike Morhaime, and that was basically it.

He's an old Blizzard employee that helped to create the original game, a game that we want to have access to that is set in those patches. That's why it's possible for him to reach Mike Morhaime.

It would have been less of a chance if it was the janitor from ten years ago, or a fan of the game.

[Captnrex]

Because the guy, after leaving Blizzard, seems to have developed some sort of 'inverted Midas' touch', where everything he touched turned to garbage. Firefall, the company he made... His ideas have stopped being good ideas for a long time, and anyone with any sort of critical sense can see the guy's doing this just to get his five minutes of fame after being kicked out of the spotlight thanks to his own shitty actions.

theres no point arguing anymore, most of their side (I don't really care either way) seems to want to stand by people like soda and a bad former dev just cause they are big names.

sorry to say, this is going to go no where because blizzard isn't going to mess with this crap with the new expansion starting up in 2ish (pre-event) months and 4 for the actual expansion, they don't have time to mess with this, so it will probably be at least a year after launch before *maybe* anything happens. And no they aren't going to just hire the people doing the the PS to work for them.

[Fmr]

I don't understand the retarded hate towards vanilla loving people. It's always the nostalgia and "rose tinted glasses" card. Guess what, you cannot decide how other people feel about the game and force your mindset to other humans. I'm not running around yelling at people who play 10 year old games and call them retarded because they play a bugged, tedious game. Time consuming or not, it's still better than "instant gratification" that is worth nothing in my eyes.
I could rant about retail wow for hours and insult the people playing it, but I don't. Who cares? Watching people getting FURIOUS over legacy server threads and even seeing posts about how nice they feel that nostalrius got shut down grinds my gears.

[Ielenia]

Even if his "5 minutes of fame" wish is true, does it matter in this context?

I think it does, for all the reasons I wrote in my previous post. He may have been great in the past, but after leaving Blizzard the guy just piled failure after failure in his resume, but the problem is: unlike vanilla, there isn't an old Mark Kern from <2006 to bring back the brilliant man that worked on WoW and other Blizzard games at that time.

The Mark Kern of today is obviously not the Mark Kern that worked at Blizzard ten years ago, he's no longer the guy who helped create WoW: today he's the guy who buried FireFall and got kicked out of the very company he helped create.

And that fact alone, for me, is insanely amusing, because the way the 'pro-vanilla' crowd keeps hailing him as some sort of VIP, completely ignoring all his failings after leaving Blizzard, and never stops repeating how WoW got worse and worse with the years, being a 'complete garbage' today... they fail to see (or choose to ignore) that Mark Kern is, almost literally, their vision of WoW personified: someone who was great once, but now, today, only accumulates failures after failures.

[Uurdz]

theres no point arguing anymore, most of their side (I don't really care either way) seems to want to stand by people like soda and a bad former dev just cause they are big names.

sorry to say, this is going to go no where because blizzard isn't going to mess with this crap with the new expansion starting up in 2ish (pre-event) months and 4 for the actual expansion, they don't have time to mess with this, so it will probably be at least a year after launch before *maybe* anything happens. And no they aren't going to just hire the people doing the the PS to work for them.

You're not wrong, I'd be excited though to think that in 12 short months it would be available

[Acww52]

I think it does, for all the reasons I wrote in my previous post. He may have been great in the past, but after leaving Blizzard the guy just piled failure after failure in his resume, but the problem is: unlike vanilla, there isn't an old Mark Kern from <2006 to bring back the brilliant man that worked on WoW and other Blizzard games at that time.

The Mark Kern of today is obviously not the Mark Kern that worked at Blizzard ten years ago, he's no longer the guy who helped create WoW: today he's the guy who buried FireFall and got kicked out of the very company he helped create.

And that fact alone, for me, is insanely amusing, because the way the 'pro-vanilla' crowd keeps hailing him as some sort of VIP, completely ignoring all his failings after leaving Blizzard, and never stops repeating how WoW got worse and worse with the years, being a 'complete garbage' today... they fail to see (or choose to ignore) that Mark Kern is, almost literally, their vision of WoW personified: someone who was great once, but now, today, only accumulates failures after failures.

while I agree mark is not good for the cause. A lot of people join blizzard in between tbc and mop worked on Titan. Titan failed and a lot of those people had to put failed titan project on their resume. But some of them are lucky and can put overwatch on it as well. So just because someone worked on a failed project doesn't mean it should ruin them forever. But I will agree mark has been on a down slope since vanilla and I bet hes using this to try and get back on track.
"

[Psygon]

There's a lot of issues here. IP being used by its creator: and the responses of fans and non-fans to their creation. Plus you have theft of code, and running a private server. Nostalgia, the wonder drug.

It's all up to Blizz to capitalize on that sentiment or not. It's their IP. But as a gamer, I don't care, gonna connect to the private servers and have more fun than I do on the wierd unlimited ammo servers on Live.

Still paying the monthly fee, so where I connect is my own business. I just assume private servers will go down, it goes with the terri.

But I'm sure my actions and viewpoints are upsetting to some. It's my opinion.

[Captnrex]

Even if his "5 minutes of fame" wish is true, does it matter in this context?

I don't think it matters to these people who it is, as long as it is a person that can reach Mike Morhaime. We know this is not a new game that Mark Kern is going to create, he's going to hand over a petition to Mike Morhaime, and that was basically it.

He's an old Blizzard employee that helped to create the original game, a game that we want to have access to that is set in those patches. That's why it's possible for him to reach Mike Morhaime.

It would have been less of a chance if it was the janitor from ten years ago, or a fan of the game.

all hes going to do is mail the thing, I doubt he's going to see him in person (or even if Mike would even see him), the name does matter to people because because they are/were popular figures "supporting" their wants. Fact of the matter is blizzard knows this is going on and are refusing to acknowledge it, either they don't care, they will work on progressing the game to what people want (legion is a start), or waiting to surprise people later. Any of those are possible

[Mullet Man]

I think it does, for all the reasons I wrote in my previous post. He may have been great in the past, but after leaving Blizzard the guy just piled failure after failure in his resume, but the problem is: unlike vanilla, there isn't an old Mark Kern from <2006 to bring back the brilliant man that worked on WoW and other Blizzard games at that time.

The Mark Kern of today is obviously not the Mark Kern that worked at Blizzard ten years ago, he's no longer the guy who helped create WoW: today he's the guy who buried FireFall and got kicked out of the very company he helped create.

And that fact alone, for me, is insanely amusing, because the way the 'pro-vanilla' crowd keeps hailing him as some sort of VIP, completely ignoring all his failings after leaving Blizzard, and never stops repeating how WoW got worse and worse with the years, being a 'complete garbage' today... they fail to see (or choose to ignore) that Mark Kern is, almost literally, their vision of WoW personified: someone who was great once, but now, today, only accumulates failures after failures.

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

Mark is just a well know guy with an opinion. You don't like his opinions so you attack him personally. End of story.

[Seezer]

I think it does, for all the reasons I wrote in my previous post. He may have been great in the past, but after leaving Blizzard the guy just piled failure after failure in his resume, but the problem is: unlike vanilla, there isn't an old Mark Kern from <2006 to bring back the brilliant man that worked on WoW and other Blizzard games at that time.

The Mark Kern of today is obviously not the Mark Kern that worked at Blizzard ten years ago, he's no longer the guy who helped create WoW: today he's the guy who buried FireFall and got kicked out of the very company he helped create.

And that fact alone, for me, is insanely amusing, because the way the 'pro-vanilla' crowd keeps hailing him as some sort of VIP, completely ignoring all his failings after leaving Blizzard, and never stops repeating how WoW got worse and worse with the years, being a 'complete garbage' today... they fail to see (or choose to ignore) that Mark Kern is, almost literally, their vision of WoW personified: someone who was great once, but now, today, only accumulates failures after failures.

Nobody is hailing him as a VIP. He worked on WoW. He worked on starcraft, he knows Morhaime. That's all "pro vanilla" people care about. That he can get this thing into morhaimes hands. You're trying waaaay too hard to to find a reason to shit on him because you don't like what he says.

And however you want to look at the guy, he's a successful guy. But you are right about one thing. WoW is total shit now.

And let's not exaggerate. He's had 1 failure. Not "failure after failure". But hyperbole is the tool of the weak.


StarCraft (1998), Blizzard Entertainment Inc.
StarCraft: Brood War (1998), Blizzard Entertainment Inc.
StarCraft 64 (2000), Nintendo of America Inc.
Diablo II (2000), Blizzard Entertainment Inc.
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne (2003), Blizzard Entertainment Inc.
World of Warcraft (2004), Blizzard Entertainment Inc.
Firefall (2014), Red 5 Studios

That's a lot of success. One failure.

[Altariaz]

I don't understand the retarded hate towards vanilla loving people. It's always the nostalgia and "rose tinted glasses" card. Guess what, you cannot decide how other people feel about the game and force your mindset to other humans. I'm not running around yelling at people who play 10 year old games and call them retarded because they play a bugged, tedious game. Time consuming or not, it's still better than "instant gratification" that is worth nothing in my eyes.
I could rant about retail wow for hours and insult the people playing it, but I don't. Who cares? Watching people getting FURIOUS over legacy server threads and even seeing posts about how nice they feel that nostalrius got shut down grinds my gears.

I agree.

I think the fury that a tiny minority feel towards legacy servers is 99% a verdict on those individuals, and not legacy servers. They feel the need to spout insults and stand in sanctimonious judgment on others, and repeat post to the point that it is worrying (like is that really all they have to do with their lives?).

If the odd lot could construct a good argument against a legacy server, that would be another thing. But they can't, mainly because there is no good argument. A stack of old games are enjoyed by fans, that is why retro gaming is exists and is successful. Blizzard have not provided any detailed analysis on the proposition, and for some really odd reason don't (as yet) want to work with the community and fans to provide a legacy server (read, fans and community doing it for free, and promoting the Blizzard brand for free). This could be arranged such that the intellectual property Blizzard rightly want to protect is protected. Instead Blizzard chose scary legal tactics and to stamp on their fans and customers, to stop a service they don't want to provide anyhow.

To the legacy haters: Go outside and find something constructive in real life to do.

To Blizzard: Work with the fans and community who love the game, not against them.

[Ielenia]

while I agree mark is not good for the cause. A lot of people join blizzard in between tbc and mop worked on Titan. Titan failed and a lot of those people had to put failed titan project on their resume.

I don't think it goes on their resume. I mean, it's just a project that never got off the ground. The product 'failed' not because it wasn't well received by the consumers, but because their work didn't meet their internal quality standards. I don't remember where I saw this, but I recall reading that the Titan project 'was good, but they (developers) just didn't "feel" it', or something to that effect. Anyways, I don't think failed projects that never get off the ground go into resumes, tbh.

[Captnrex]

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

Mark is just a well know guy with an opinion. You don't like his opinions so you attack him personally. End of story.

attacking him being bad at business/most recent game company =/= attacking him over his opinion

I don't trust him

were talking about what hes done, its like, "oh billy was great are working with cars in the beginning, but the last 10 years he caused more damage than he fixed, but we should think back to the times he was great!"

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think it goes on their resume. I mean, it's just a project that never got off the ground. The product 'failed' not because it wasn't well received by the consumers, but because their work didn't meet their internal quality standards. I don't remember where I saw this, but I recall reading that the Titan project 'was good, but they (developers) just didn't "feel" it', or something to that effect. Anyways, I don't think failed projects that never get off the ground go into resumes, tbh.

yeah they basically said it was cool but wasn't any fun to play. but yeah that kind of thing wouldn't go on the resume, if anything they would say they worked on overwatch since thats where most the assets came from.

[NoiseTank13]

I agree.

I think the fury that a tiny minority feel towards legacy servers is 99% a verdict on those individuals, and not legacy servers. They feel the need to spout insults and stand in sanctimonious judgment on others, and repeat post to the point that it is worrying (like is that really all they have to do with their lives?).

If the odd lot could construct a good argument against a legacy server, that would be another thing. But they can't, mainly because there is no good argument. A stack of old games are enjoyed by fans, that is why retro gaming is exists and is successful. Blizzard have not provided any detailed analysis on the proposition, and for some really odd reason don't (as yet) want to work with the community and fans to provide a legacy server (read, fans and community doing it for free, and promoting the Blizzard brand for free). This could be arranged such that the intellectual property Blizzard rightly want to protect is protected. Instead Blizzard chose scary legal tactics and to stamp on their fans and customers, to stop a service they don't want to provide anyhow.

To the legacy haters: Go outside and find something constructive in real life to do.

To Blizzard: Work with the fans and community who love the game, not against them.

Yes the pro-Nostalrius people are all innocent.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

I'm beginning to hate people on both sides of the argument. At least the obnoxious ones who can't shut up and won't stop insulting each other for simply having differing opinions. Hasn't this discussion gone on long enough for us all to have argued our points to death?

You won't change someone's mind by hitting 'em with a frying pan if a nice conversation hasn't had any effect.