WOLCEN : Lords of Mayhem (Indie ARPG)

[The Oblivion]

Interesting, so that's why Quinn was playing with 1h+shield, instead of 2h.

honestly, if you check out a lot of peoples builds, shields are core. shield is just real OP.

[Coldkil]

All in all i'm having fun and don't see all the "gamebreaking issues" many people are experiencing. Granted, i play offline, because i knew beforehand that online play would have had issues.

I see so much entitlement from so much people. Game has problems - and that's undeniable. But it's not unplayable. So it's a positive from me. They will need to balance things out but so far basically any build is powerful enough to work, they just need to nerf the outliers really and buff spells in general.

EDIT: it seems to me that people is baffled about how hardcore players/streamers just look for the OP stuff to make the classic "OMFG SUPER MEGA OP BUILD DESTROY ZERGING BOSSES" videos to rake views.

Just play the game the way you like. Don't make others play the game for you. Again, played offline, done the entire story with no issues and now tackling endgame. Game is fine. Not a masterpiece, i just have fun.

Must agree that i tried online last night and it was annoying to see lags and rubberbanding. But again it was playable while not really entertaining, as i don't really care to play with other people excluding the occasional quick game with friends. It's not like you get more or better stuff.

Yes, i don't like how after a so long EA the game falls short on some baseline things. But in the end, i'm playing it and having fun. As i told everyone else who asked me, if you didn't buy it before, wait some time to see how it fares. So far most people is keeping playing and are fine with the game, while some of them got annoyed to much and decided to wait or get a refund. Totally fine in both ways.

[Biomega]

Analogy kinda works only if half the experience of Wolcen was currently available. I mean there's tons of people progressing through all 3 acts and playing the end-game and progressing that as well.

It sucks that there's balance and bug issues but you can get the full experience of an ARPG playing through Wolcen.

Half-baked imo would be if everyone kept crashing after Act 2 or something.

I mean, does it matter if it's half baked or 90% baked. Would you buy bread, discover it's only 90% baked, and be fine with it? No. Would you be fine buying bread only to discover it's got grit in there that the baker just didn't have time to sieve out of the flour, but they promise they'll come round your place in a week to pick out of the bread?

Extend analogy as needed.

[FlubberPuddy]

I mean, does it matter if it's half baked or 90% baked. Would you buy bread, discover it's only 90% baked, and be fine with it? No. Would you be fine buying bread only to discover it's got grit in there that the baker just didn't have time to sieve out of the flour, but they promise they'll come round your place in a week to pick out of the bread?

Extend analogy as needed.

It's still a bad analogy.

What Wolcen is akin is basically going to a start up bread shop and getting maybe a 2/5 or 3/5 bread vs going to a well-known bakery.

But people are going to the newbie store shop, knowing it's a start up, buying the bread and then complaining it's not the quality of the well-known bakery simply because of an arbitrary price tag.

"I spent $40 it should be as amazing as other top notch $40 games!!" (oh but please disregard any and all non-top notch games that also go for $40.

Not realizing the difference between spending $200 at Mcdonalds and what that gets you vs spending $200 at a 5 star restaurant. Same price tags, but expect 2 wholly different experiences in both the venue and quality.

Wolcen is rough around the edges for sure, but it's not literal trash as many are trying to imply if not out right saying.

[Coldkil]

I dont' really get the "half experience" thing. Offline and online are EXACTY the same, what are you missing? Obviously excluding playing with friends.


Man, i remeber people shitting on D3 announcement because it was awlays online. Now people shit on Wolcen because it has offline. And because it's too tedious to roll another character. Lol, people really want to play this game huh. I just see rushers wanting to have an "ALL AND NOW" experience and then leave immediately after because they burned out the game. I guess whatever floats your boat.

[Biomega]

It's still a bad analogy.

What Wolcen is akin is basically going to a start up bread shop and getting maybe a 2/5 or 3/5 bread vs going to a well-known bakery.

But people are going to the newbie store shop, knowing it's a start up, buying the bread and then complaining it's not the quality of the well-known bakery simply because of an arbitrary price tag.

"I spent $40 it should be as amazing as other top notch $40 games!!" (oh but please disregard any and all non-top notch games that also go for $40.

Not realizing the difference between spending $200 at Mcdonalds and what that gets you vs spending $200 at a 5 star restaurant. Same price tags, but expect 2 wholly different experiences in both the venue and quality.

Wolcen is rough around the edges for sure, but it's not literal trash as many are trying to imply if not out right saying.

But this isn't about being "rough around the edges", which is a quality assessment - the game has gamebreaking bugs and technical issues preventing play, which has nothing to do with design. Servers being unavailable. Progress being lost. Loading screens getting stuck. Characters ending up outside the level bounds with no means to get back other than restarting everything. And so on. That's not just "oh this isn't as good as something else" this is actual functional impairment.

Which, again, is fine IF YOU MAKE IT CLEAR IT'S PART OF THE DEAL.

And pointing to other games going "they didn't do it perfectly either!" isn't an excuse, not for those games, and not for this game. And neither PoE nor D3 had technical issues of this magnitude - server issues, yes, as many online games have on launch, but not the entire catalog of critical bugs this came with, many of which are still actively causing problems.

[Deldavala]

Yeah, I just lost about 6 hours of progress of my Stormfall city and my stash was wiped. SO MUCH FUN

[Vynx]

Yeah, I just lost about 6 hours of progress of my Stormfall city and my stash was wiped. SO MUCH FUN

Stash was missing even after relog? Their CM said on discord that the data exists, but it's not returned by the database, so you might have to try a few times before it comes back. I happened to experience a complete loss, of even equipped gear, but it was there after relog.

[FlubberPuddy]

Stash was missing even after relog? Their CM said on discord that the data exists, but it's not returned by the database, so you might have to try a few times before it comes back. I happened to experience a complete loss, of even equipped gear, but it was there after relog.

I experienced the stash bug and even bought a new stash (which just minutes after doing found out you are not supposed to do as devs said all data is there just requires relogging just do not buy stash).

Bit bummed. But then as I was playing later on after dinner I came back to my stash as it was! Thank goodness for that.

- - - Updated - - -

Which, again, is fine IF YOU MAKE IT CLEAR IT'S PART OF THE DEAL.

And pointing to other games going "they didn't do it perfectly either!" isn't an excuse, not for those games, and not for this game. And neither PoE nor D3 had technical issues of this magnitude - server issues, yes, as many online games have on launch, but not the entire catalog of critical bugs this came with, many of which are still actively causing problems.

Wolcen Studios is completely new, not sure how you weren’t cleared on this being a first new game for a new studio.

If someone chooses to spend $40 on something like that it’s their own risk. In the past I paid for Wildstar and look where that game went. Still the worst purchase I ever made.

It’s not about excuses it’s about reality.

Don’t drop the money for a first time game from a first time studio if you’re expecting Triple A quality. That’s reality.

[Biomega]

Wolcen Studios is completely new, not sure how you weren’t cleared on this being a first new game for a new studio.

If someone chooses to spend $40 on something like that it’s their own risk. In the past I paid for Wildstar and look where that game went. Still the worst purchase I ever made.

It’s not about excuses it’s about reality.

Don’t drop the money for a first time game from a first time studio if you’re expecting Triple A quality. That’s reality.

Here's the thing: I don't care about the history of the studio. They're charging money, I want a good product. Or, alternatively, I want them to be VERY clear about what you're getting into. If you're charging money, you have certain obligations to meet.

(And to clarify, I personally knew their history and knew what the deal was, but many many other people did not.)

[FlubberPuddy]

Here's the thing: I don't care about the history of the studio. They're charging money, I want a good product. Or, alternatively, I want them to be VERY clear about what you're getting into. If you're charging money, you have certain obligations to meet.

(And to clarify, I personally knew their history and knew what the deal was, but many many other people did not.)

You just proved my $200 analogy McDonald’s vs 5 star restaurant so thanks for that.

[Biomega]

You just proved my $200 analogy McDonald’s vs 5 star restaurant so thanks for that.

I'm not disagreeing there's a difference between what you get for $200 from McD vs. a 3-star restaurant (5 stars are for hotels not restaurants), however that difference is in QUALITY, not functionality.

I don't expect the same level of design polish from an Indie studio that I expect from a AAA studio. I still expect the game to WORK.

To use your analogy: chicken nuggets may not be gourmet food, but that doesn't mean I'm fine with getting burnt chicken nuggets, or raw ones, or partially cooked ones even at McDonald's.

EDIT: also, you're disregarding quantity here; McD makes compromises in quality for quantity (or, inversely, price; but price is the same here). But we're not getting more from Wolcen than we do from D3 or PoE. We may even be getting less. For the same price. And then it's also broken.

[Yriel]

I dont' really get the "half experience" thing. Offline and online are EXACTY the same, what are you missing? Obviously excluding playing with friends.

Again, they plan to do Events and Diablo-like Seasons and i would be surprised if they will be available in offline play.

[Stormgnoef]

The game is amazing but it kinda is ruining it for me with all the bugs.I played for 2 hours and 40 min of that was just crash and bugs on top of bugs.I think i wait abit before they fix stuff

[Coldkil]

Again, they plan to do Events and Diablo-like Seasons and i would be surprised if they will be available in offline play.

That would be awesome, but until they fix the server issues no stuff like that can happen, right? So right now yuo're not losing anything regarding seasons/events.

I'm definitely going to play online. Especially if seasons happen. However, for now, i'm having my fun on offline where i can actually try the game as it should be played and see the bugs/report them until they fix it.

I have to agree that the full price for this kind of day1 experience is too high. Reason why i told every friend interested in it to just wait. Some bought it anyway and having fun offline, some asked a refund, some waited.

Again, i'm not saying the situation is fine nor that they don't need to fix this asap. But waiting for them to fix things shouldn't be hard? And meanwhile people can play the full thing still.

EDIT: i don't find impossible to have offline seasons. I mean, ladders and such won't even be available offline obviously, but mechanics added over time can also be added on offline in the base game, more or less how it happens with PoE between league and standard.

[Gravity2015]

Well, this game has been stealing all my free time since it was released. It's great fun even if there are some bugs. Got to lvl 60 with my boyfriend before he got too tired to continue playing and have some 30 hours played.

Hell yah, I beat a3 end boss and ran a couple rifts - cool system deciding to continue or cash out at the end, going to level an alt tonight to horde my caster gear on - I think now I can level in the rift system so that should be fun - constant upgrades and power creeps!

Anyone know if the end game building system (I don’t fully understand it yet) - is tied to account or character?

my best advice is - this is a game, have fun everyone. @Coldkill the negativity was getting me down last night but I just decided I’m done watching the stream and visiting Reddit - the devs will get this figured out, seasons will come - this will be a great game (I hope haha)

[Coldkil]

my best advice is - this is a game, have fun everyone. @Coldkill the negativity was getting me down last night but I just decided I’m done watching the stream and visiting Reddit - the devs will get this figured out, seasons will come - this will be a great game (I hope haha)

Just to be totally fair, there's really bad stuff happening that's going under the radar because of the blatant server issues. For example, spells passives either not working or not scaling up enough. Spells don't scale off weapon damage, so melee/attacks in general scale like a truck and ferocity double dips on crit. Meanwhile spells don't scale from weapon damage and lose a lot of output due to it. My simple ideas:

- make spells gain base damage from leveling and add a small amount to Wisdom aswell. This should solve everything pretty easily.

- otherwise, just make spells scale from weapon damage (and add damage values to catalysts like any one hand). Since you have to use a staff or offhand to actually be able to cast spells, it's not like you're going to see greatsword mages running around. Again, simple solution (maybe even simpler than the previous one since you have direct comparable values).

[FlubberPuddy]

Just to be totally fair, there's really bad stuff happening that's going under the radar because of the blatant server issues. For example, spells passives either not working or not scaling up enough. Spells don't scale off weapon damage, so melee/attacks in general scale like a truck and ferocity double dips on crit. Meanwhile spells don't scale from weapon damage and lose a lot of output due to it. My simple ideas:

- make spells gain base damage from leveling and add a small amount to Wisdom aswell. This should solve everything pretty easily.

- otherwise, just make spells scale from weapon damage (and add damage values to catalysts like any one hand). Since you have to use a staff or offhand to actually be able to cast spells, it's not like you're going to see greatsword mages running around. Again, simple solution (maybe even simpler than the previous one since you have direct comparable values).

Yeah the game definitely needs to get a lot of TLC right now. Despite the buggyness though it's very fun.

Also Rip Ret Paladins ;( (jk a lot of the Warrior skills can really make you feel like a Paladin, just sucks we can't use some of the Light spells alongside a 2h Hammer/Sword).

All in all their Twitter shows a lot of communication going on and looks like Online Server related stability issue bugs are still popping up so it's their major focus right now still before game balancing and such (which I'm sure they'll get to).

They even mentioned they'll be punishing those used the gold dupe bug (of which many manchildren were complaining about despite their not being an economy system yet).

Pretty sure that the server related bugs and stuff is just a huge thing on their plate still. People just need to chill.

This isn't like No Man's Sky where the game you got was a blatant lie about what you'd be able to do and see in the game. Wolcen literally lets you do all the normal ARPG things (kill, loot, feel like a badass, customize your own build, its endgame systems do what they're intended to do).

- - - Updated - - -

Speaking of builds, anyone got a dagger/dagger build going on? Looking at some of the green nodes and they look fun/interesting (one basically gives you combo points in the Alastor tree). I been wanting to try out a quick-roguey character lately.

[Edge-]

Game really doesn't seem to want to run well with 8GB of RAM, was getting constant stuttering during combat even after dropping from 2K down to 1080p. Will try to fix tonight, but it's super frustrating.

[Onikaroshi]

Game really doesn't seem to want to run well with 8GB of RAM, was getting constant stuttering during combat even after dropping from 2K down to 1080p. Will try to fix tonight, but it's super frustrating.

Think it might have a leak, does it sometimes after awhile on 16 gigs.