[WINDWALKER] 7.X Discussion thread

[Babylonius]

What about Combo Strikes?

Combo Strikes is the Mastery? If you mean Hit Combo then that was changed as well, the clone simply gain their own buff, so they have a very small ramp time to get 8 stacks, but the difference is very minor, so nothing to freak out about.

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does this mean we should stop using serenity for ST fights now?

Assuming the sims are all correct, yes. WDP was the top talent in all situations without the bug.

[Sunspear]

If you mean Hit Combo then that was changed as well

Yes. That one

And that's great to hear. Loved me some WDP.

[Staggered]

Combo Strikes is the Mastery? If you mean Hit Combo then that was changed as well, the clone simply gain their own buff, so they have a very small ramp time to get 8 stacks, but the difference is very minor, so nothing to freak out about.

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Assuming the sims are all correct, yes. WDP was the top talent in all situations without the bug.

Personally, any fight in Mythic HFC currently with adds - the adds just melt. Rarely would I have any time to do any type of "aoe" that would make any impact on the adds. This could also just be my raid groups ability to nuke adds rather quickly. Everyone's mileage may vary, but I'm speaking from my experience alone.

I may stick with Serenity because the opening burst is great, and can be dumped into ring. Are the SEF clone's damage contributing to the ring explosion?

[Babylonius]

Personally, any fight in Mythic HFC currently with adds - the adds just melt. Rarely would I have any time to do any type of "aoe" that would make any impact on the adds. This could also just be my raid groups ability to nuke adds rather quickly. Everyone's mileage may vary, but I'm speaking from my experience alone.

I may stick with Serenity because the opening burst is great, and can be dumped into ring. Are the SEF clone's damage contributing to the ring explosion?

From my testing, SEF clones do count toward Maalus. If the adds are dying too quickly then just double tap it to foucs it on one target.

If you want to play Serenity, then go ahead. Its just the prepatch, no one should gain or lose their raid spots these weeks.

[Xiaojin]

Not sure if the clones contribute to the ring explosion (or Spirit Shift if you're still using a Soul Cap). But regarding those two effects, I wish they'd simply change the SEF clones to something purely visual: clones spawn, charge around similar to Chi-Ji (if you use the new MW talent to summon him), every time you deal damage, you simply deal 3* 45% (with you as the source, not your stupid clones, those should just be a visual with no real effect by themselves), once to your target, twice to "random" enemies (that happen to be near your clones). That would fix all the stupid broken interactions with talents, trinkets, etc. but still visually look like what we have now. Maybe it would look even better if your clones act slightly different from yourself instead of merely copying what you do. TBH, aside from the broken interactions with other stuff, I like the current SEF. Never was a huge fan of the old design even though I admit that it had it's unique uses.

Guess this raid ID, with the hotfix, I'll try Power Strikes + WDP. Last ID I started out with EE + WDP, half-way through I switched to PS + Serenity (was happier with this combination) and briefly tried Ascension + Serenity (just to experience how it feels). I still hope that there will be some numbers balancing for the Lv45 talent row before raiding in Legion starts.

[Babylonius]

Not sure if the clones contribute to the ring explosion (or Spirit Shift if you're still using a Soul Cap). But regarding those two effects, I wish they'd simply change the SEF clones to something purely visual: clones spawn, charge around similar to Chi-Ji (if you use the new MW talent to summon him), every time you deal damage, you simply deal 3* 45% (with you as the source, not your stupid clones, those should just be a visual with no real effect by themselves), once to your target, twice to "random" enemies (that happen to be near your clones). That would fix all the stupid broken interactions with talents, trinkets, etc. but still visually look like what we have now. Maybe it would look even better if your clones act slightly different from yourself instead of merely copying what you do. TBH, aside from the broken interactions with other stuff, I like the current SEF. Never was a huge fan of the old design even though I admit that it had it's unique uses.

Guess this raid ID, with the hotfix, I'll try Power Strikes + WDP. Last ID I started out with EE + WDP, half-way through I switched to PS + Serenity (was happier with this combination) and briefly tried Ascension + Serenity (just to experience how it feels). I still hope that there will be some numbers balancing for the Lv45 talent row before raiding in Legion starts.

What you're suggesting removes the biggest bonus of SEF is that it tags targets for you for SCK stacks.

[Xiaojin]

True, but personally, I'd rather lose that bonus (I do not regard it as SEF's biggest bonus; yes, a bonus, but not the biggest one) than having to worry about every unusual buff/effect in the game and whether SEF interacts with that correctly.

EDIT: would my suggestion really remove that bonus? SCK's tooltip says "for each unique target you've struck" not "for every TP/BoK/RSK you use". So technically, if TP/BoK/RSK were to hit more than one target (they currently don't, but they would with my suggestion for a change to SEF) SCK's damage should increase for every target hit.

[Megabloks]

SEF clones still not benefitting from the Spiritual Focus (5% damage increase artifact trait), and the hit combo stacking on clones themselves is basically back to TEB/TP/RSK buffs/debuffs for clones.

As mentioned here, it is very annoying having any damaging trinket procs/potions/player buffs or whatever else, being nerfed by SEF since its a .45(.5) multiplier on player damage. I don't know why blizz can't make these not get reduced by SEF multiplier.

SEF is still bugged with SOTW and is not doing as much damage as it should, even account for them only doing 45% damage instead of 50%

[Lucrece]

No doubt the result of a massive change in design direction mid alpha too late to make meaningful changes for. Remember SEF started as a cleave toggle, then got turned into an AoE cooldown, and THEN with enough outcry was changed to the ST/AOE hybrid it is now.

The funny thing is this incarnation will be no worse than what we had in WoD in terms of management. They tried to make SEF uncomplicated, it ended up sucking, and then they changed it to this clumsy form and shifted the micromanagement to SCK stacks outside SEF uptime.

It's basically the moonkin treatment balance druids have been going through the past xpacs where they change things for the sake of it and have been on a cyle of repairs to what they broke with changes.

[Xiaojin]

Well, all those problems are a result of the fact that SEF clones are actual units that act as their own sources of damage (and having their own buffs/debuffs) and treated as being different from the player who summoned them. For everything they interact with, that OTHER effect needs to account for SEF clones being potentially present. So for procs that give you a short buff, the proc needs to make sure that your clones get the buff as well when the proc occurs and the buff needs to make sure to copy itself to your clones if you cast SEF while it is active.

That's why I want them to become a mere visual effect instead of actual (gameplay) units. It saves everyone from headaches, players as well as Blizzard employees who have to implement new mechanics.

Sorry for the rant. I still love my WW. Hope the invisible fist weapons make a return soon, want to try that look on my character.

[Deleted]

That's why I want them to become a mere visual effect instead of actual (gameplay) units. It saves everyone from headaches, players as well as Blizzard employees who have to implement new mechanics.

I agree. Making it a visual only effect would fix most of the problems it inherently has for being units - dying to random stuff (don't know how that's in Legion, but it could be a problem in MoP/WoD) and not getting effect of trinkets / special encounter buffs / etc.

What you're suggesting removes the biggest bonus of SEF is that it tags targets for you for SCK stacks.

The spell would then work as some sort of cleave. You press RSK and will hit your main target for x damage and two other targets (if available) for x damage. Spreading the debuff would be exactly as it is right now. Instead of spirits jumping around and doing stuff, you have your spells do it directly. They don't even have to add some new mechanic to be able to make spells work that way, because the "intelligent" targeting of mobs not having been hit with TP/RSK/BoK already exists in the game in the form of the actual SEF.

The only real difference would be the targeting of the aoe styles: FoF, WDP, SCK, etc. If the spirits are only a graphical effect, they would have to use the player as the center and source of those spells. It has the advantage of much more control. Sometimes, tanks don't cluster mobs very well, and it can happen that the spirits only hit half of them with aoe styles. This change would remove that problem, too, and give full control to the player of where exactly he wants his styles to hit. Though they'd have to come up with something to remove the discrepancy of the graphical effect of an aoe style made by the spirit and the actual area the spell hits. Something like the spirits jumping to you and copying the aoe style at your position.

The other advantages are, as already mentioned in my answer to Xiaojin, that the spirits can't die prematurely as they could in WoD, and that everything they introduce in terms of boss mechanics and trinkets would already work, because the damage comes from the player. We wouldn't have some shit like one of the best trinkets (Soul Capacitor) not working at all with one of our key abilities for a whole content without ever getting fixed, or certain encounter mechanics not working at all: for example of damage buffs on Thaddius, which didn't buff pets and guardians, or the damage debuff on Norushen.

[Deleted]

Hope the invisible fist weapons make a return soon, want to try that look on my character.

They are back for a few patches now.

[Arumil]

sef goes into ring explosion

[bushes]

Sorry for the rant. I still love my WW. Hope the invisible fist weapons make a return soon, want to try that look on my character.

They can be transmog'd again, they just haven't been added back onto the vendor yet. So if you still have them you're good to go.

[Xiaojin]

My problem is, I don't have them yet. So I hope they become available again for purchase soon.

[ErothTV]

My problem is, I don't have them yet. So I hope they become available again for purchase soon.

same bro, same

[Juliansfist]

SEF should not be just an animation. You may as well call it blade flurry on a cool down and call it a day then.

Blizzard need to get their coding right for specific encounter buffs and the occasional atypical trinket proc. Of course all "base" abilities should work for earth and fire as well.

[Lucrece]

The obvious solution would be that the clones dynamically update to whatever buffs and damage modifiers the player has on himself. No need to overcomplicate it. They already do that dynamic update with pets, why can't they with clones?

[Xenyatta]

I just spent 30k over the past 10 days trying to get all Versatilitied out and I log in to find that Versa is low man on the totem pole. Before I go spend another short fortune on stuff to replace what I just bought, is it for sure that Mastery is the new go to stat?

[Xiaojin]

SEF should not be just an animation. You may as well call it blade flurry on a cool down and call it a day then.

Blizzard need to get their coding right for specific encounter buffs and the occasional atypical trinket proc. Of course all "base" abilities should work for earth and fire as well.

It already is a buggy Blade Flurry on a CD.

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I just spent 30k over the past 10 days trying to get all Versatilitied out and I log in to find that Versa is low man on the totem pole. Before I go spend another short fortune on stuff to replace what I just bought, is it for sure that Mastery is the new go to stat?

TBH, I wouldn't really care about optimizing secondary stats on gear until you're 110 and preparing for raiding.