The Arms Compendium

[Bigbazz]

So avatar usage - on CD or wait for BC always?

Have an estimate of your fight length, use that to see how many times you can use Avatar, make your choice based on that. It really depends on the fight, having Avatar up without having a BC within that buff though is pretty dumb and a waste unless you're super lucky on procs and crits.

[Zarutaja]

Using this everyday so far. Thank you so much for everything y'all have done so far.

[Crownup]

i have the legs legendary and i am not quiet sure when to use my cs cds. wb on cd for sd? when cs falls off? only for bc? safe always one for bc? What do you guys think?

[wheresmywoft]

All these people and their useful legendaries. And here I have bracers...

[reversekanga]

Mate.

I have a sephuz secret. Id take your bracer any day of the week.

[Bigbazz]

The bracers at least have the perfect stats for Arms, I was pretty annoyed at my Heroic Leap legs (Crit/Mas replacing Haste/Mas + Socket ilvl880) but now warmed up to them as from a gameplay perspective they are pretty fun and strong on AOE. But yeah when you see people with the MS gloves or Execute Ring you tend to get pretty salty because of just how much you're missing out.

I have Aggrammar's Stride and Weight of the Earth, I really enjoy having both from a gameplay point of view. But yeah my DPS would look a lot sweeter with MS gloves, they are such a massive dps increase that it's like comparing different classes/specs, you can't compare players with them to players without them.

[amarathy]

If you took out the legendaries that just converted into an insane damage boost (ring/gloves for arms), the remaining ones would actually sit quite well. I've had the legs for a while and really enjoyed how they slightly altered the rotations and how powerful they could be in burst aoe content. I would have no problem swapping them out for more utility based legendaries though. Something like shout giving leech would be just as effective as killing bosses as a small damage boost on one player. Other classes have similar ones that just get binned because they are not BiS. Regardless, I just got Ayala's this morning so pretty stoked. Which leads me to my question, is the proc based on abilities, autoattacks, or both?

On another topic, have the simmers explored the FR set plays? Assuming that FR that goes onto a MS with CS active would be higher DPR than slam without CS active, it could be a preferred filler in certain situations. Generally this crops up if you've gone CS->MS ->fillers-> MS without a tactician proc as the CS debuff would drop at this point. If you have WB up (or leg pants), you should be able to just use FR as the filler for the next cycle, then WB-> MS to reset the cycle. If you dont have WB up, you can measure the likelyhood of FR reseting tactician and weigh that against the damage loss of using slam instead. Would be more suited to having a mid to large amount of rage to try get the 3 FR stacks and maximise chance of getting tact proc.

Alongside this, is it better to delay slams in situations where you are not rage starved and MS is coming off CD naturally?
Lets say you go CS->MS->Slam->Slam

At this point, if you've got enough of a rage cap buffer, is it not better to just wait for the next MS and then dump the slams again? Would result in better returns from the tactician proc.

[Deleted]

On another topic, have the simmers explored the FR set plays? Assuming that FR that goes onto a MS with CS active would be higher DPR than slam without CS active, it could be a preferred filler in certain situations.

Yes, a lot of simming was compared on warrior discord channel.
I didn't quite understand your example, it seemed to be a scenario where CS debuff was up, in this case slam is always greater DPR, I've probably misunderstood what you meant though.

Alongside this, is it better to delay slams in situations where you are not rage starved and MS is coming off CD naturally?

I wouldn't have thought so, you want to be spending rage to fish for tact procs right? Or are you just saying don't delay casting MS?[/QUOTE]

Fwiw, highest sim I could get was as per the compendium apart from while CS debuff is up spam Slam to fish for the tactician proc regardless of rage. Outside CS debuff spam FR and Slam regardless of rage to get a tact proc asap. The theory here is that the highest prio is to get the tact procs and maintain the CS debuff, the most DPR efficient way of doing this is Slam while CS is up, and blow all rage as fast as possible if CS is down.
(However, this may just be for the 840 iLevel profile, not sure how it scaled with gear)

[amarathy]

Yes, a lot of simming was compared on warrior discord channel.
I didn't quite understand your example, it seemed to be a scenario where CS debuff was up, in this case slam is always greater DPR, I've probably misunderstood what you meant though.

Yeah I actually meant when the cs debuff is not active. Using slam as filler commits that rage to the non-cs DPR, whereas using FR will commit that rage to the non-cs DPR if tact doesn't proc, or CS DPR if tact does proc. The calculation is then comparing (probability of tact not procing)x(damage loss to not using slam) vs (probability of tact procing)x(damage gained by using FR). If the latter is greater, then FR is a better filler when the CS debuff is not up.

I wouldn't have thought so, you want to be spending rage to fish for tact procs right? Or are you just saying don't delay casting MS?
Fwiw, highest sim I could get was as per the compendium apart from while CS debuff is up spam Slam to fish for the tactician proc regardless of rage. Outside CS debuff spam FR and Slam regardless of rage to get a tact proc asap. The theory here is that the highest prio is to get the tact procs and maintain the CS debuff, the most DPR efficient way of doing this is Slam while CS is up, and blow all rage as fast as possible if CS is down.
(However, this may just be for the 840 iLevel profile, not sure how it scaled with gear)

General thought line was as follows:
Lets say have roughly 50 rage, a decent amount to dump on fillers but no where near capped.
CS->MS->Slam->Slam
at this point you've got some rage back from AA's and roughly sitting on 40 rage. You have enough to fit in a slam->MS if you want to. Now lets assume that the slam is guaranteed to proc tactician and nothing else will*. You can take two approaches, delay the slam or hit it straight away.
Straight away would lead your next gcd's as
Slam->CS->MS->Slam
where as if you delay it you would go
Delay->MS->Slam->CS->MS
The actual rage you spend is the same in both scenarios, however you gain the damage of a MS over slam in the second scenario. The DPR would thus be better, and only punished if you rage capped at some point.

Sorry if I failed at explaining it, it's a pretty niche scenario that crops up maybe only a few times in a fight.


*if slam doesn't proc then there is no impact on the rotation. If the MS procs tactician then the slam just gets pushed back further.

[Deleted]

assume that the slam is guaranteed to proc tactician and nothing else will*. You can take two approaches, delay the slam or hit it straight away.
Straight away would lead your next gcd's as
Slam->CS->MS->Slam
where as if you delay it you would go
Delay->MS->Slam->CS->MS
The actual rage you spend is the same in both scenarios, however you gain the damage of a MS over slam in the second scenario. The DPR would thus be better, and only punished if you rage capped at some point.
*if slam doesn't proc then there is no impact on the rotation. If the MS procs tactician then the slam just gets pushed back further.

two issues with this:
1. First scenario only has 4 gcds, 2nd has 5 (in which the first gcd is wasted), so if you add a slam to the first I think this more than makes up the difference in damage? (with CS up 2 slams are greater than MS, at least according to the Damage/DPR spreadsheet in the compendium)
2. "*if slam doesn't proc then there is no impact on the rotation"
I think there is an impact on rotation.
1st scenario if slam doesn't proc then MS may proc, giving 2 chances of a proc in 2 GCDs.
2nd scenario do nothing (no proc), then MS, giving 1 chance of a proc in 2 GCDs.
meaning the 1st scenario has a better chance of casting CS by the 3rd GCD than the 2nd scenario.

You could try altering the apl simcraft uses to model your idea, and see how it comes out.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah I actually meant when the cs debuff is not active. Using slam as filler commits that rage to the non-cs DPR, whereas using FR will commit that rage to the non-cs DPR if tact doesn't proc, or CS DPR if tact does proc. The calculation is then comparing (probability of tact not procing)x(damage loss to not using slam) vs (probability of tact procing)x(damage gained by using FR). If the latter is greater, then FR is a better filler when the CS debuff is not up.

Yep, I agree with this, and did try modelling it in simcraft.
i.e. when CS is down prefer to stack FR to 3 rather than use Slam, so that if tact procs the FRs will be spent on a SD buffed MS which is higher DPR then Slam.
But it turned out it was a DPS loss.
As I mentioned above, when CS is down the highest DPS (according to simcraft) is to spam FR to 3 AND spam Slam, i.e. just burn through rage as it is more important to get a tact proc than slowly spend rage on marginally more DPR efficient slams.

[Baracuda]

Anyone got a more detailed relic priority list, such as #7 http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/beast-m...ps-simulations here, for arms warriors? No pompous answers please.

[Garrus]

Anyone got a more detailed relic priority list, such as #7 http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/beast-m...ps-simulations here, for arms warriors? No pompous answers please.

The Arms Compendium sheet on the first page provides a detailed relic list depending on the legendaries you have or don't have. Your answer should be there.

[Baracuda]

The Arms Compendium sheet on the first page provides a detailed relic list depending on the legendaries you have or don't have. Your answer should be there.

Thanks, fail by me.

[Qoma]

Nice - the AoE rotation was updated! Very excited to approach AoE with purpose

[Velinn]

Yeah, updated the rotation section today.

I tried to write the aoe rotation in a slightly simplified way. There's a lot of factors and scenarios to consider when you're doing aoe. In burst aoe you'd want to go for the highest damage combination, while in consistent aoe you'd want to focus the most optimal DPR combination.

You also have to factor in stuff like mastery level, legendaries, how long adds will be alive, how much rage you have etc. It's just overly complicated if I was going to write down a whole page of "what ifs" scenarios for aoe rotations.

If anyone is interested I have a few spreadsheets you can look at for more in-depth information about aoe DPR and damage.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1035937824
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...oyc/edit#gid=0

[Lulane]

Something I didn't get a clear answer to is my current problem gearing up (switched from disc priest to warrior in our raid).
The point behind 24-27% haste depending on latency is kinda clear, but where I didn't find a clean answer to would is this:

Should I aim straight for mastery on every slot (e.g. Crit/Mastery > Haste/Vers bracers on the same level) or is it better to follow the stat weights like Mastery 12.7 | Haste 12.61 | Versatility 10 | Strength 8.95 | Crit 8.56 for having less than 20% Haste and no Archavon's and put the bracers from my earlier example in the opposite order?

Most posts and some parts of the compendium suggest to stack Mastery like a Firemage is stacking Crit or would be strictly following the Stat Weights be the more rewarding part?
I am no pro in using SimC and sit there and beat some dummies is funny, but there is too much luck involved to get a reliable result.

[Bigbazz]

Something I didn't get a clear answer to is my current problem gearing up (switched from disc priest to warrior in our raid).
The point behind 24-27% haste depending on latency is kinda clear, but where I didn't find a clean answer to would is this:

Should I aim straight for mastery on every slot (e.g. Crit/Mastery > Haste/Vers bracers on the same level) or is it better to follow the stat weights like Mastery 12.7 | Haste 12.61 | Versatility 10 | Strength 8.95 | Crit 8.56 for having less than 20% Haste and no Archavon's and put the bracers from my earlier example in the opposite order?

Most posts and some parts of the compendium suggest to stack Mastery like a Firemage is stacking Crit or would be strictly following the Stat Weights be the more rewarding part?
I am no pro in using SimC and sit there and beat some dummies is funny, but there is too much luck involved to get a reliable result.

Higher haste gives you more consistency because you generate and use more rage, so more tactition procs and faster BC cooldowns + that 5th GCD and 2nd MS (no tactition proc) within Battle Cry once you're in the 22-25% range. You should follow stat weights based on Mastery > Haste >> Verse >>> Crit, and try to build a balanced gearset and use Simcraft to help guide you on gear choices.

If you're all mastery with low haste then that can produce really high results but is by default much more reliant on RNG.

[Lulane]

Higher haste gives you more consistency because you generate and use more rage, so more tactition procs and faster BC cooldowns + that 5th GCD and 2nd MS (no tactition proc) within Battle Cry once you're in the 22-25% range. You should follow stat weights based on Mastery > Haste >> Verse >>> Crit, and try to build a balanced gearset and use Simcraft to help guide you on gear choices.

If you're all mastery with low haste then that can produce really high results but is by default much more reliant on RNG.

So it will be better to aim for a reliable Haste breakpoint according to the latency first? I choose enchants & gems with Haste in combination with a WQ Haste trinket (besides the one from the Heart) to get near 24% Haste and stay above 63% Mastery.
I'll give SimC a try later and I should value Haste lower now once I got above the 20%.

[Valdie]

I think it's more like dont go full mastery only pieces (e.g. several crafted "savant" items, Demar's ring etc) or mastery + crit or something - try to get some haste. Otherwise you will be too reliant on RNG as Bigbazz said. Depending on how much haste you get you could shoot for a haste breakpoint but the main thing is to not ignore haste.

[Deleted]

How do people perform in Mythic+ I'm doing just ok, doing good on the bosses but AOE wise I feel I'm lagging behind and I'm finishing 50k-100k behind others at the end of a Mythic 10+.