Protection Warrior help - with logs!

[Wengel]

Hello fellow meat-shields!
Our guild have just recruited a new protection warrior for one of the tank spots, however as a Guardian Druid i really do not know a lot about Prot warriors in Legion so i was hoping someone may have time to take a look at tell me if there's any clear red flags etc?

Having played a prot warrior in WoD, i do think he's taking an excessive amount of damage while being low on the dps also, especially considering his ilvl is significantly above mine, but at the same time everyone says bears are insane at the moment so not sure how good that comparison is.
Howver - almost no shield blocks on Mythic Nyth kill or Mythic Ursoc wipes makes me wonder if warrior really changed that much or if he's just not playing correctly?

Logs from yesterday:
Logs

Hints, indications, suggestion for improvements would be very welcome.

[potis]

He is basically doing Ignore Pain/Vengeance correctly but apparently didnt get the memo that after the nerfs its really important to keep Shield Block up (It was before too, made you godly but yes, bad players!) as much as possible as most bad warriors do since they got used to LOL SPAM IGNORE PAIN WIN, before the %/Rage nerfs, and he seems to be one of them.

Checking your wipes/kills, his shield block uptime is beyond horrible, which also explains the low DPS since he misses the extra damage from the talent he uses , but it doesnt mean much, Prot Warrior DPS is a bit laughable.

To make you understand better, Warrior stat weights go Haste 25-30%>Mastery>Vers to be able to Shield Block at an acceptable uptime of 80-90%+ along with Heavy Repercussions for the passive 30-60% Physical reduction it provides since Ignore Pain gets consumed insanely fast after the changes.

[Deleted]

Hello fellow meat-shields!
Our guild have just recruited a new protection warrior for one of the tank spots, however as a Guardian Druid i really do not know a lot about Prot warriors in Legion so i was hoping someone may have time to take a look at tell me if there's any clear red flags etc?

Having played a prot warrior in WoD, i do think he's taking an excessive amount of damage while being low on the dps also, especially considering his ilvl is significantly above mine, but at the same time everyone says bears are insane at the moment so not sure how good that comparison is.
Howver - almost no shield blocks on Mythic Nyth kill or Mythic Ursoc wipes makes me wonder if warrior really changed that much or if he's just not playing correctly?

Logs from yesterday:
Logs

Hints, indications, suggestion for improvements would be very welcome.

Well first of all he's uptime on SB is far far to low.
Depending on hes current gear he should be close to 100% uptime on SB and only use IP as ragedump pretty much.
Our warrior had the same issue with playstyle so we benched him for a DK and now the progress goes way way better.

If he have around 25 - 30% haste he should be like 90 - 95% uptime on SB.

// Zuk

[potis]

Well first of all he's uptime on SB is far far to low.
Depending on hes current gear he should be close to 100% uptime on SB and only use IP as ragedump pretty much.
Our warrior had the same issue with playstyle so we benched him for a DK and now the progress goes way way better.

If he have around 25 - 30% haste he should be like 90 - 95% uptime on SB.

// Zuk

While actively tanking* most people forget that, its supposed to be up even when you arent for the extra damage but its irrelevant to survival.

[Siversmith]

Pretty much everyone else has clearly stated the obvious statement about his lack of shield block usage. In the fight against Nythendra he used it a total of 5 times......

Even on a bad day I don't think I have ever used shield block only 5 times in a fight against a boss.

[Wengel]

Pretty much everyone else has clearly stated the obvious statement about his lack of shield block usage. In the fight against Nythendra he used it a total of 5 times......

Even on a bad day I don't think I have ever used shield block only 5 times in a fight against a boss.

Yea that was also my feeling - but before i correct someone on a class i don't know well enough i had to just check up if there was a reason that wasn't obvious to the un-initiated for the lack of shield block use.

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Gives me something to discuss with him

[Llarold]

Maintaining Shield Block is far and away the most fundamental aspect of survival as a Protection Warrior, more important than cooldown usage, Ignore Pain uptime, or anything else. He needs to have Shield Block up as much as humanly possible while actively tanking.

The best place to start is to make sure he's tracking his Shield Block charges and buff uptime, and to make sure he's never sitting on two charges while actively tanking. Once that is handled, he should focus on having Shield Block active whenever he casts Shield Slam, to really get the most out of Heavy Repercussions.

These simple steps will go a long way, and should immediately rectify a lot of his problems.

[nicbizz]

This is secondary, but he's also gearing for Crit on necks/rings where ilvl does not matter. Crit is pretty much the worst stat for Prot atm. At the very least, he could've just gone crafted for those slots.

[Llarold]

This is secondary, but he's also gearing for Crit on necks/rings where ilvl does not matter. Crit is pretty much the worst stat for Prot atm. At the very least, he could've just gone crafted for those slots.

Actually, that's pretty important because Neck/Rings make a disproportionately high amount of secondary stats when compared to standard armor slots.

[Deleted]

Hello fellow meat-shields!
Our guild have just recruited a new protection warrior for one of the tank spots, however as a Guardian Druid i really do not know a lot about Prot warriors in Legion so i was hoping someone may have time to take a look at tell me if there's any clear red flags etc?

Having played a prot warrior in WoD, i do think he's taking an excessive amount of damage while being low on the dps also, especially considering his ilvl is significantly above mine, but at the same time everyone says bears are insane at the moment so not sure how good that comparison is.
Howver - almost no shield blocks on Mythic Nyth kill or Mythic Ursoc wipes makes me wonder if warrior really changed that much or if he's just not playing correctly?

Logs from yesterday:
Logs

Hints, indications, suggestion for improvements would be very welcome.

Cause he isn't using SB. Witch buffs warriors stupidly high. with 28% haste and heavy rep-something-something he can keep it up 100% of the time as well as get 30% damage buff on his Shield slam while it is active. Damage is increased by ignoring Revenge and fishing for Shield Slam procs by spaming devestate on single target. The only exceptions are if you have the legendary glowes cause it will make revenge generate decent rage and do decent damage even on single target and the other one is if you are getting pummeled and need a little bit more rage to use SB/IP, however if you are getting pummeled you prolly have a lot of rage coming in and can spam your abilities normaly.

And he is not utilizing the vengence talent. 11 uses of Focused rage and 42 uses of Ignore pain? 34 stacks of infested. I have 10-15 on my Nythendra mythic kill. Although we do 3 tank it and our fight took a minute and a half less then yours

[Eldar45]

A lot of people will scoff at this, but have him macro shield block to all of his abilities. It costs basically no rage and should be kept up as close to 100% of the time as possible anyway. The only places this could possible be detrimental are on bosses where you have to use active mitigation to stop an ability (Like Dargrul in Nelth's Lair). But with enough haste this shouldn't be an issue (As SB will literally always be up, with maybe 1 second windows where its not).

[Atoned]

A lot of people will scoff at this, but have him macro shield block to all of his abilities. It costs basically no rage and should be kept up as close to 100% of the time as possible anyway. The only places this could possible be detrimental are on bosses where you have to use active mitigation to stop an ability (Like Dargrul in Nelth's Lair). But with enough haste this shouldn't be an issue (As SB will literally always be up, with maybe 1 second windows where its not).

Please for the love of god don't do this.

[Eldar45]

Please for the love of god don't do this.

Please explain why not.

[Ghrim]

To be honest: Search for a different Tank. This is way and beyond just purely bad SB uptime. In a kill a few weeks ago, I was at a similar ilvl (actually one lower at 867). I gear mostly for mastery with versa and haste (around 15%, as more than that is absolutely not necessary with the tank swaps we currently have), still I had nearly twice his DPS (without any legendary at that time, and he has the hands, which are the best for survival and damage) at 145k, while at the same time having nearly half his external healing required (60k compared to his 110k). Furthermore, in a 4:50 fight I had 315 actions (so around 1.1 actions per second) while he had 240 actions in 6:39 which is a MISERABLE 0.6 aps ALTHOUGH he has way more haste and Nythendra for us is just some relaxing fight where no one really pushes any more. On a progress fight I am around 1.3 actions per second and he should be around 1.4 or more. As many said, his SB uptime is bad, but having all that rage available one would assume his IP casts would be more, but in fact he is casting nearly 25% LESS IPs than I do in the same time. Furthermore, due to an SB uptime of nearly 70% (effectively more) I had an IP uptime of 84% (in parts obviously due to offtanking), whereas he was at an again miserable 38% (in parts caused due to his high damage intake due to low SB uptime).

All in all:
- SB uptime is REALLY bad
- IP uptime is "only" very bad
- IP casts and cooldown usage are abysmal
- most importantly: He is below HALF the casts he could do in the same time frame.

Again, I repeat, and I am sorry to say this, but what he is doing would not be enough for heroic "progression". He is nowhere near ready to tank Mythic raids.

EDIT: I took a closer look into his casts. And oh boy... He has once 25s and once 40s periods in the fight where he is doing NOTHING. Not a single cast in that time. At 5:30 he is dead, so he can't cast too much, but before that..... If you want to progress replace him as fast as possible....

[PinDrop]

Shield Block uptime is abysmal, almost nonexistant.
Battle Cry unused.
Damge is extremely low, fixing the above two would help with this.
Spell Reflect helps with volatile rot, it was unused.
Artifact Ability unused. A puzzler, that one.

Red flags? They are all over, to the point that he doesn't seem to understand how to play the class. Send him to the forums here and have him do some research. You're not going to get far in mythic with him. Nythendra is pretty brainless for tanks, swap and move out. I can't even begin to imagine him tanking Ursoc with mitigation that poor.

[Wengel]

Thanks for the feedback everyone!
When approached the warrior in question decided to leave the guild. Replacement protection warrior was found and the difference is night and day.

[Siversmith]

Glad you guys resolved your problem in the guild.

[Deleted]

I use these macros and talents. Serves me well.

Ignore Pain stacks and refreshes the buff. I see no point in waiting for more rage before using it.

#showtooltip Devastate
/use Demoralizing Shout
/use Spell Reflection
/use Shield Block
/use Ignore Pain
/use Focused Rage
/use Devastate

#showtooltip Revenge
/use Demoralizing Shout
/use Spell Reflection
/use Shield Block
/use Ignore Pain
/use Focused Rage
/use Revenge

#showtooltip Shield Slam
/use Demoralizing Shout
/use Battle Cry
/use 13
/use 14
/use Spell Reflection
/use Shield Block
/use Ignore Pain
/use Focused Rage
/use Shield Slam

Spec: http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/w...rotection/cHxM

[Deleted]

So getting Haste to 25-30% is now the goal for prot warriors?

Why the hell the guides dont update this?

My pawn tell me others... damn

http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...n/Rupio/simple

What stats weight should i insert for pawn?
I know some items are bad and wrong but i thought mastery > haste it the way it goes... now i see its haste ~25% > mastery.

I have to reequip me now and change my playstyle, would be nice if someone could give me a pawn import for stats weight.

[potis]

So getting Haste to 25-30% is now the goal for prot warriors?

Why the hell the guides dont update this?

My pawn tell me others... damn

http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...n/Rupio/simple

What stats weight should i insert for pawn?
I know some items are bad and wrong but i thought mastery > haste it the way it goes... now i see its haste ~25% > mastery.

I have to reequip me now and change my playstyle, would be nice if someone could give me a pawn import for stats weight.

Or do it without any addon?

There were never and still arent any stat weights for warriors, the 30% haste existed before, when everyone was yelling "Versatility" , its the goal for easy SB uptime of over 90% while actively tanking

Haste to 30%, some say 25 cause 30 is a bit harder to get-->Mastery cause Critical Block is broken-->The rest.

You do not need stat weights for that, or "Pawn".

If you have a 840 haste/mastery item and you get a 895 item of whatever stats, obviously you wear the god damn 895 cause the stamina/strength values are massive, this doesnt upply to rings/necks in a few cases, but generally, use your brain.