Frost death knight stat priority changed?

[Savic]

Was checking Icy-Veins today and start priority is now Strength, Versatility, Critical Strike, Haste.

What..?

[Sygil]

Guides are just guides, but in saying that, I wouldn't trust that priority.

Sim your own character for accurate stat weights.

[Noxina]

Frost DK stat weight change around for every item you get. So the only way to know for certain is to sim your self.

[Grymkreaper]

Frost DK stat weight change around for every item you get. So the only way to know for certain is to sim your self.

This is so true. I got a new neck last night and simmed my character and haste went from top priority to bottom. With one piece of gear. So like Feederino said, just sim yourself. Literally do it after each piece of gear you get.

[Hoeth]

While there is an interaction among all of the secondaries and they all effect each other somewhat, at ~865+ ilvl almost every parse above 85th percentile was using 2:1:1:<0.5 crit/haste/mastery/vers ratios. Could it be that all of those players just happen to have those ratios from playing unholy and never bothered to swap their frost gear? Maybe. The other option is that all/most of the experienced frost players realized crit was offering by far the highest throughput and prioritized it, regardless of what simcraft suggested. 7.1 did reduce the value of crit somewhat and significantly boosted haste, so you might see a change in the secondary ratios at the ~90th percentile in the next few weeks. Interpret is as you will, but currently there are exactly ZERO high parses following anything other than crit>haste=mastery=vers priority.

[ShadowofVashj]

While there is an interaction among all of the secondaries and they all effect each other somewhat, at ~865+ ilvl almost every parse above 85th percentile was using 2:1:1:<0.5 crit/haste/mastery/vers ratios. Could it be that all of those players just happen to have those ratios from playing unholy and never bothered to swap their frost gear? Maybe. The other option is that all/most of the experienced frost players realized crit was offering by far the highest throughput and prioritized it, regardless of what simcraft suggested. 7.1 did reduce the value of crit somewhat and significantly boosted haste, so you might see a change in the secondary ratios at the ~90th percentile in the next few weeks. Interpret is as you will, but currently there are exactly ZERO high parses following anything other than crit>haste=mastery=vers priority.

This is a very informative, well summarized concise post. TYVM!

[Deleted]

While there is an interaction among all of the secondaries and they all effect each other somewhat, at ~865+ ilvl almost every parse above 85th percentile was using 2:1:1:<0.5 crit/haste/mastery/vers ratios. Could it be that all of those players just happen to have those ratios from playing unholy and never bothered to swap their frost gear? Maybe. The other option is that all/most of the experienced frost players realized crit was offering by far the highest throughput and prioritized it, regardless of what simcraft suggested. 7.1 did reduce the value of crit somewhat and significantly boosted haste, so you might see a change in the secondary ratios at the ~90th percentile in the next few weeks. Interpret is as you will, but currently there are exactly ZERO high parses following anything other than crit>haste=mastery=vers priority.

I simmed my char before ursoc fight. It estimated 325k DPS. Then I fought ursoc (hc) and did 350k dps :P

I am not too sure about crit's value being less. More KM procs and crits in general to capitalize on Oblit's increased crit%dmg is not half bad. That and personal preference for world pvp

[Cosmic Janitor]

This is so true. I got a new neck last night and simmed my character and haste went from top priority to bottom. With one piece of gear. So like Feederino said, just sim yourself. Literally do it after each piece of gear you get.

That seems rather odd to me. If there are such a drastic reaction to minor alterations in the input paramters then there is probably kind of poles in the function that are probably more influenced by minor flaws in execution as well, which would also mean that frost dps should be all over the place. But that doesn't seem to be the case. Well unless your stats are all realitvely close to begin with, but from my own sims that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Phlyn]

I simmed my char before ursoc fight. It estimated 325k DPS. Then I fought ursoc (hc) and did 350k dps :P

I am not too sure about crit's value being less. More KM procs and crits in general to capitalize on Oblit's increased crit%dmg is not half bad. That and personal preference for world pvp

well thats kind of the problem, the sim is wildly inaccurate. if the sim's priority in the extreme best case scenario, on a fight with zero disconnects is lower than your real dps on a fight that has quite a few disconnects.... how can it estimate your stats accurately?

people need to stop blindly following simcraft.

[Poisongaz]

Guides are just guides, but in saying that, I wouldn't trust that priority.

Sim your own character for accurate stat weights.

And if you sim your character you will probably get something close to that. Where do you think they get stat weights? dur

[Relidar]

I've given up on sims. Partly because SimCraft updates slowly, but also because i keep getting new items daily. I'm playing with a "highest item level" priority now. The only thing i actually am strict about are my trinkets. Some just perform better, even with lower ilvl.

[Phlyn]

last time i simmed my stats were something like 8.1str:6.8haste:6.5mastery:6.48vers:6.4crit. so pretty much I level upgrades > all

[Deleted]

well thats kind of the problem, the sim is wildly inaccurate. if the sim's priority in the extreme best case scenario, on a fight with zero disconnects is lower than your real dps on a fight that has quite a few disconnects.... how can it estimate your stats accurately?

people need to stop blindly following simcraft.

There's a line on the SimCraft front page in big green CAPS that says

Legion 7.1.0 - WARNING: SOME SPECS LIKELY INACCURATE UNTIL ALL CHANGES ARE INTEGRATED FROM 7.1

It'll take a while (probably a couple of weeks) for the theorycrafting to line up with the logs.

Until it's sorted out then I'm sticking with Crit>Mastery>Haste>Versatility (I'm upping Mastery a touch for me as I have the bracers that give +15% damage to Frost attacks during Pillar of Frost. If I didn't have legendary bracers, I'd use Crit>Haste>Mastery=Vers)

I only raid Heroics though, if I'm missing out on a few % of damage for the next couple of weeks until the theory geeks work out what the actual best stat weightings are then I'm fine with that.

If you're not pushing mythic content, or you're not obsessive about eeking out as much DPS as you possibly can, then you'll save a bunch of time (that you could use to practice your rotation on a dummy) by just plugging your gear into Ask Mr Robot and going with their recommendations.
Oftentimes the nerds behind AMR are ahead of the curve with their stat weights.

[aroth]

I would either go the DK Discord or reference this thread on the Icy Veins forums for any current info on Frost in 7.1. I feel like whoever updated the stat priority tried using Simcraft to generate update priorities but they failed to realize that Simcraft has not updated to reflect all of the changes in 7.1 yet.

[Deleted]

well thats kind of the problem, the sim is wildly inaccurate. if the sim's priority in the extreme best case scenario, on a fight with zero disconnects is lower than your real dps on a fight that has quite a few disconnects.... how can it estimate your stats accurately?

people need to stop blindly following simcraft.

Trial and error is the best way because apl will never be perfect unless it's very simple but performance depends on so many variables which simc can't include.

[Cosmic Janitor]

There's a line on the SimCraft front page in big green CAPS that says

Even if you overwrite the spells that actually changed the results are still rather extreme depending on minor gear changes.

[Deleted]

Even if you overwrite the spells that actually changed the results are still rather extreme depending on minor gear changes.

All it means when the results seesaw around lots (at least usually) is that the stats are actually really close in value.

For DKs which stat is best depends a lot on your gear (because of things like legendaries skewing 1 stat over another) but you won't go far wrong with the standard crit>haste>vers=mast that Hoeth posted upthread.

IcvVeins has changed the "strongest secondary stat" at least twice now. It's likely that it'll change again once the sim is nailed down properly. If the secondary stats are close enough to cause statweights to change a lot if you swap out 1 piece of gear then it's better imo to wait for things to settle down.

[Schizoide]

I probably wouldn't go with crit unless you take FSc, but you do need to sim your own char to be sure.

[Deleted]

sup as a starting fresh frost DK what crafting items should buy i first? impatient?

[aroth]

I probably wouldn't go with crit unless you take FSc, but you do need to sim your own char to be sure.

From what I've seen/read and experienced with my own character, Frost will almost always need a set amount of crit and haste (usually somewhere between 20% and 30% for each). What varies from patch to patch is what to do after that. Sometimes we want to keep stacking crit or haste infinitely, other times we want to stock up on mastery once we reach those break points. The one thing that seems to hold true for us through the various tuning patches in Legion is that crit beyond the breakpoint has extremely diminishing returns, far more-so than with haste or mastery. That said, its entirely possible that the break point went up to 35% or dropped to 15% with 7.1 and we won't know for sure until Simcraft finishes incorporating the changes from 7.1. I would be very surprised if Versatility ended up being more important then mastery or haste, much less being more important than hitting a soft cap for haste and/or crit.