Question about Vendetta Relics.

[Deleted]

Hi guys,

Need some advice. Here is my character : ilvl 866, Agonizing Poison build. No sin legendaries (only leg gloves from the past, when outlaw was performing strongly).

15 minutes ago I dropped a vendetta relics, which I stored in the bank. Now.. i have 3 vendetta relics I can equip.. from each slot. Should I equip them knowing that ==>

My actual relics :

-865 : reduce 40s vendetta
-875 : up 13 percent rupture damage
-870 : up poison damages (up 4 percent agonizing poison damage).

What it would be if i go full vendetta :

-865 : reduce 40s vendetta
-835 : reduce 40s vendetta
-840 : reduce 40s vendetta

Looks like i would lose a lot of weapon damage due to item level of relics right?

Thanks for your advices!

[tvp6987]

Keep your current ones until you get better master assa relics. Those are too low compared to what you've got.

[Tans]

Go to http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/run
Import your character.
Sim your character. Check your simmed dps.
Go to run window again.
Press on your relics and choose your vendetta ones with the right ilvl.
Sim your character. Check your simmed dps.
Compare.
Decide.

[Deleted]

Hi guys,

Need some advice. Here is my character : ilvl 866, Agonizing Poison build. No sin legendaries (only leg gloves from the past, when outlaw was performing strongly).

15 minutes ago I dropped a vendetta relics, which I stored in the bank. Now.. i have 3 vendetta relics I can equip.. from each slot. Should I equip them knowing that ==>

My actual relics :

-865 : reduce 40s vendetta
-875 : up 13 percent rupture damage
-870 : up poison damages (up 4 percent agonizing poison damage).

What it would be if i go full vendetta :

-865 : reduce 40s vendetta
-835 : reduce 40s vendetta
-840 : reduce 40s vendetta

Looks like i would lose a lot of weapon damage due to item level of relics right?

Thanks for your advices!

I'd go 3 vendetta as you linked.

[Kortiah]

Switch to 3MA, 100%.

1) You already have 1, this is useless. Either play with 3MA or none. Otherwise it doesn't help with CDs aligning. And that's one of the main reason you want to play 3MA (aside from the obvious more frequent full energy bar and damage amp.).

2) ilvl doesn't matter for Sin, since Rupture and poison scale with AP, not weapon damage. And the AP gain (agility) from having higher ilvl weapon is very minimal.

3) Don't sim to compare as this guy said. Master Assassin can't be simmed effectively and it'll show wrong numbers.

If you had 3 Gushing Wounds 870+ and wanted to replace with 830 MA relics, MAYBE that'd be worth thinking about, but even then... Considering your present relic setup you'll gain a LOT of dps switching to 3MA. And I mean a LOT.

[Deleted]

mmmh well.. i just replaced my old relics... feels like my dps got lower.. lol.

With all the cendetta relics, there is now 15 seconds delay between vendetta and kingsbane.

Should I wait for these 15 seconds to align KB and vendetta? Or should I go for kingsbane on timer?

[omeomorfismo]

never delay cd

[eijin]

mmmh well.. i just replaced my old relics... feels like my dps got lower.. lol.

With all the cendetta relics, there is now 15 seconds delay between vendetta and kingsbane.

Should I wait for these 15 seconds to align KB and vendetta? Or should I go for kingsbane on timer?

Vendetta does not increase kingsbane's damage

[Deleted]

And do you delay exsanguinate ?

[beebopcola]

never delay cd

unless you're ONLY talking about kingsbane, this is wrong. (also, once patch roles around and vendetta effects kingsbane this will be even more incorrect)

times to delay a CD: depends on how many you think it's possible to get in during a fight.

for instance, if you're guild is just getting around to killing mythic ursoc in 4:35 seconds that means that at 1:10 CD, you will be able to vendetta 3 times, vanish three times, and cast kigsbane about 6 times. The only one of these where considerable delay hurts you is kingsbane. otherwise, saving your 3rd vendetta for a lust and vanish/rup phase makse a lot of sense.

this is one of the overlooked reasons why I think Vendetta w/ 3 is so good, not *just* because it means literally more vendettas and every other vendetta is paired w/ vanish/rup, but because it gives you more flexibility during the encounter.

Mythic examples include:
Nyth - saving your 3rd vendetta 10-15 seconds for periods where you're not one who will bc MC'd and can just go ham while the other plebs AoE.
Ursoc - already mentioned, but having vendetta for lust phase is very nice.
Ilg - depends on strat but typically you'll be maxing out the heart's HP so i've been saving it for the first dominators that appear during the 2nd phase.
Cenarius - this is where i really like holding off a few on vendetta. if you're trying the burn strat its very very nice to have this during the lust to push.

[Zoopercat]

3) Don't sim to compare as this guy said. Master Assassin can't be simmed effectively and it'll show wrong numbers.

Master Assassin sims correctly on the Ask Mr. Robot simulator. If you think something seems off, send over some details.

[omeomorfismo]

unless you're ONLY talking about kingsbane, this is wrong. (also, once patch roles around and vendetta effects kingsbane this will be even more incorrect)

times to delay a CD: depends on how many you think it's possible to get in during a fight.

for instance, if you're guild is just getting around to killing mythic ursoc in 4:35 seconds that means that at 1:10 CD, you will be able to vendetta 3 times, vanish three times, and cast kigsbane about 6 times. The only one of these where considerable delay hurts you is kingsbane. otherwise, saving your 3rd vendetta for a lust and vanish/rup phase makse a lot of sense.

this is one of the overlooked reasons why I think Vendetta w/ 3 is so good, not *just* because it means literally more vendettas and every other vendetta is paired w/ vanish/rup, but because it gives you more flexibility during the encounter.

Mythic examples include:
Nyth - saving your 3rd vendetta 10-15 seconds for periods where you're not one who will bc MC'd and can just go ham while the other plebs AoE.
Ursoc - already mentioned, but having vendetta for lust phase is very nice.
Ilg - depends on strat but typically you'll be maxing out the heart's HP so i've been saving it for the first dominators that appear during the 2nd phase.
Cenarius - this is where i really like holding off a few on vendetta. if you're trying the burn strat its very very nice to have this during the lust to push.

no, i speak about specifically with exanguinate.
i have only 3 relic ad no feets. if i sim after erasing the line that delay vendetta for ex CD i gain like 10k dps.

with feet it appear to change, but this is probably because the ~3sec of CD difference arent enough to compensate the gain from stacking both CDs.
but without feets delay isnt absolutely worth

[Deleted]

Master Assassin sims correctly on the Ask Mr. Robot simulator. If you think something seems off, send over some details.

Hm. I don't know.

Even with 3x MA from Nighthold and Nightbane (highest ilvl) it sims lower then 880 Rupture relics. 5 vs 3 Vendetta uses.

So nearly all top Assa Rogues are using the wrong relics and nobody noticed?

[Zoopercat]

Hmm, do you have sims you can link me to show that - I don't see that in the sims I setup. I just did 3x 840 master assassin and compared it to 3x 840 rupture.

Master assassin: 340,408 DPS http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...3248354ada80fc
Rupture: 337,994 DPS http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...d167562e106e97

With different talents or artifact progress it could be different. So linking sims that you do will help

[beebopcola]

MA is not simming accurately.

[Zoopercat]

MA is not simming accurately.

On AMR or SimC? My tests all show it simming accurately on AMR. Can you link to any sims where it appears to not be simming right?

[Laurix]

On AMR or SimC? My tests all show it simming accurately on AMR. Can you link to any sims where it appears to not be simming right?

It could be skewed for me because I have legendary boots (and that makes MA relics even better), but dropping my rupture relics for significantly lower MA relics is a massive dps upgrade for me. That's losing like ~10-12 ilvl on my weapon, too.

[Zoopercat]

@Laurix - are you using a custom gearing strategy that was generated from the simulator? Or the default one? The default is only 1 setup (without legendaries). If you run a gearing strategy in the simulator with your current setup, it will take that into account. All items with procs, including relics, are ranked directly from simulations. So it's important to get a setup custom to your character - the gearing strat simulates every single item with a proc and includes that data in with the stat weight report. So regular items are ranked with stat weights and procs are ranked from sims.

[Laurix]

@Laurix - are you using a custom gearing strategy that was generated from the simulator? Or the default one? The default is only 1 setup (without legendaries). If you run a gearing strategy in the simulator with your current setup, it will take that into account. All items with procs, including relics, are ranked directly from simulations. So it's important to get a setup custom to your character - the gearing strat simulates every single item with a proc and includes that data in with the stat weight report. So regular items are ranked with stat weights and procs are ranked from sims.

Err, I'll admit I'm not super familiar with AMR, but I use it instead of SimC for relics, since changing/simming relics on SimC is a pain in the ass.

I just go to "run a simulation", import my character from armory, and sim on "live, single target, default rotation, single run". My Rogue was simming at ~430k (.495% error) with 3 rupture relics, and ~450k when I change two of my rupture relics to lower ilvl MA relics.

Was there something I should change to get better results?

[Kortiah]

I was talking about SimC simulations indeed. Haven't tried AMR since I thought you guys were a bit behind this stuff at the start of Legion, if I'm being honest.

I'll definitely have a look since I loved the tool(s) during previous expansions.