The Last of Us Part II

[Tech614]

I'm starting to remember why I had you on ignore for a while.

Quite hilarious because I thought the same thing when you mentioned a post capcom Inafume game and being good in the same statement. That's not a comment somebody makes in good faith.

your attitude, btw is more likely to push people into bias against TLOU2 more then leaks or anything else.

Thanks for the compliment my dude but pretty sure my comments on MMO-Champion are not going to effect the success of the game one bit. It's already a critical success and it's pretty much destined to be a commercial success. After all since you keep trying to claim the review average doesn't matter let me know how far down this list you have to go to find a commercial flop: https://www.opencritic.com/browse/all

[ohiostate124]

Have you guys read that more detailed leak about the ending? Yikes.

[Witchblade77]

Quite hilarious because I thought the same thing when you mentioned a post capcom Inafume game and being good in the same statement. That's not a comment somebody makes in good faith.



Thanks for the compliment my dude but pretty sure my comments on MMO-Champion are not going to effect the success of the game one bit. It's already a critical success and it's pretty much destined to be a commercial success. After all since you keep trying to claim the review average doesn't matter let me know how far down this list you have to go to find a commercial flop: https://www.opencritic.com/browse/all

yep. reading comprehension fail and complete inability to understand what PERSONAL PREFERENCE means.

one I don't give a damn which company did what. I had no idea who made the game and i STILL have no idea. nor do I care because it doesn't fucking matter.

but what i said was - I ENJOYED THE GAME REGARDLESS OF ITS SCORES. BECAUSE IT APPEALED TO ME. because it hit the right buttons for my personal enjoyment. i never made any judgements of its objective quality. only my subjective preferences.

you really should learn the difference.

and yes, how you interact with people can sway their opinions over whatever it is you are interacting about. not because you are super extra special, but because for say people on these forums, you are the loudest impression of the kind of people this game appeals to, as faulty as that impression is. it may not affect the holy reviewer scores you put so much stock into, but it does still shrink the audience. enough people like you and you ruin the game for too damn many people who would have enjoyed it otherwise. it has happened before. stop being part of the problem, please.

- - - Updated - - -

Have you guys read that more detailed leak about the ending? Yikes.

is there an actual legit leak. or is it still made up stuff for clicks?

[RobertoCarlos]

yep. reading comprehension fail and complete inability to understand what PERSONAL PREFERENCE means.

one I don't give a damn which company did what. I had no idea who made the game and i STILL have no idea. nor do I care because it doesn't fucking matter.

but what i said was - I ENJOYED THE GAME REGARDLESS OF ITS SCORES. BECAUSE IT APPEALED TO ME. because it hit the right buttons for my personal enjoyment. i never made any judgements of its objective quality. only my subjective preferences.

you really should learn the difference.

and yes, how you interact with people can sway their opinions over whatever it is you are interacting about. not because you are super extra special, but because for say people on these forums, you are the loudest impression of the kind of people this game appeals to, as faulty as that impression is. it may not affect the holy reviewer scores you put so much stock into, but it does still shrink the audience. enough people like you and you ruin the game for too damn many people who would have enjoyed it otherwise. it has happened before. stop being part of the problem, please.

People complained about captain marvel and it still made over a billion. I think you put too much stock into individuals abilities to dictate how others spend thier money and thier entertainment. I know I won't have my enjoyment ruined because of people having nothing to nit pick over because of covid shutting down all movie/game releases so they decided to make the last of us 2 an icon of the betrayal of the patriarch in 2020 culture and the stronk lady's are here to show us how they can do anything!

Also I hope people can drop the obsession over pointing out entertainment is subjective. Like no shit we got that. But I'm still not gonna recommend paw patrol to my adult male friends. Shit is subjective but there are things like target markets and overall quality that are not subjective. Kk thanks

[Zenfoldor]

I did re-preorder. After I read the initial leaks, I was in the camp that they were probably out of context, but that I was worried. After having some time to think on it, I did lose my worry. I don't want to talk about why, but it has to do with how a plot point was handled in another game, believe it or not, lol. I thought to myself that if I dismissed any such narratives without even giving it a chance, then I would miss out of some of the best narratives that exist.

All that said, it doesn't mean I'm going to like TLOU2. However, I suspect I will still love it. I never got un-hyped really.

Honestly, I think the first leaks may make me like the game more. It has definitely changed how I will perceive the events of the game, so the details will be really important for me. I think I will be able to appreciate the game more, for what it is.

Also, I think anything to do with XYZ game getting favoritism in review scores, is mostly a conspiracy theory. I've dealt with that commentary for years about Nintendo games and basically any game big enough to form an anti-community. I think complaining about great scores you disagree with is 100% okay, but saying that they weren't earned honestly is a step too far, without evidence. The scope of any such conspiracy would inevitably lead to it becoming known to the whole gaming world very quickly. I don't like moving goalposts without a really good reason, so I'm going with TLOU2 actually probably being pretty good, instead of whatever theory might circulate about pro reviewers treating the game differently.

Also, unfortunately(and I deal with this a lot as a Nintendo fan too, but it's getting more mainstream) metacritic review bomb scores aren't a good metric, and not nearly as good as the professional review metric, because I assume it is possible to review the game without actually playing it. That means, you can thumbs up or thumbs down a game based off of a leak you heard instead of actually playing it. Review bombs are real.

I too wish there was a better way to gather user review scores. The best way I've found to get a good feel for community perception of a game is to actually join the community. You will know the general consensus soon enough.

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The "they should be terrified of you" trailer got dislike bombed in its own right back when Naughty Dog had all the good will in the world due to the kiss. This is outright false, although not as heavy in its bad response as now. People still do have an axe to grind, and a lot of the people spamming "IT'S MA'AM" are just along for the ride because it helps radicalize people.

I agree review numbers are terrible, though. I can rarely boil down an experience to something that simple - it really is something designed to cater to the lowest common denominator.

Metadata is a powerful tool when researching purchases. While opinions are subjective, I would argue that game review metadata is a much better indicator of a games quality, and in fact one would end up playing higher quality titles on average by using any metric from an aggregate gaming review website, vs a dartboard. There are just too many terrible games, and very few truly terrible games get great reviews after 20+ ratings.

Are Amazon user reviews also pointless? I feel they have revolutionized shopping.

[Witchblade77]

People complained about captain marvel and it still made over a billion. I think you put too much stock into individuals abilities to dictate how others spend thier money and thier entertainment. I know I won't have my enjoyment ruined because of people having nothing to nit pick over because of covid shutting down all movie/game releases so they decided to make the last of us 2 an icon of the betrayal of the patriarch in 2020 culture and the stronk lady's are here to show us how they can do anything!

Also I hope people can drop the obsession over pointing out entertainment is subjective. Like no shit we got that. But I'm still not gonna recommend paw patrol to my adult male friends. Shit is subjective but there are things like target markets and overall quality that are not subjective. Kk thanks

dictate - no, influence? absolutely.

and I'm talking personal preferences WITHIN target markets. good example with Captain Marvel - it is a highly flawed movie that still made plenty of money, complaints and all and I know of plenty of people who enjoyed it just fine. heck, I enjoyed it, flaws and all. at the moment, my own copy of TLOU2 is in process of being packaged up for shipment, according to my order page anyways, however, i can into it already a fan. new fans? and people on the fence? those are the people whose decisions can be swayed.

I have to keep pointing out that enjoyment is subjective, because apparently while you get it - someone like Tech, does NOT.

[Vakir]

Metadata is a powerful tool when researching purchases. While opinions are subjective, I would argue that game review metadata is a much better indicator of a games quality, and in fact one would end up playing higher quality titles on average by using any metric from an aggregate gaming review website, vs a dartboard. There are just too many terrible games, and very few truly terrible games get great reviews after 20+ ratings.

Are Amazon user reviews also pointless? I feel they have revolutionized shopping.

Oh, they're all very powerful and important tools. I just wish they weren't as often. For products that are more unknown, it's helpful to know the general concensus on something. But for a lot of AAA titles, that we already know are going to get good marks by virtue of the amount of influence the publishers have on the people reviewing, people boil things down to numbers that should be more complicated conversations and it becomes more about dick-measuring. I just don't generally like takes that aren't more in-depth and driven by a discussion or dialogue regarding the "art" itself.

Have you guys read that more detailed leak about the ending? Yikes.

I saw what you're referring to and hoo boyo. Impossible to talk about without ruining lots if it's true, but if it is, it just reinforces my fear of the unnecessarily nihilistic and overly bleak vibe I'm getting.

Reminds me a lot of trying to do fundamentally what the ending of the anime/manga Monster did but without understanding why it worked or what the point was.

[Tech614]

But for a lot of AAA titles, that we already know are going to get good marks by virtue of the amount of influence the publishers have on the people reviewing

False statement.

https://www.opencritic.com/game/1539/mafia-3
https://www.opencritic.com/game/1547...fect-andromeda
https://www.opencritic.com/game/4793/sonic-forces
https://www.opencritic.com/game/7884...con-breakpoint

I could keep going but it's quite boring, being an AAA game from a massive company means absolutely jack shit.

[Vakir]

False statement.

https://www.opencritic.com/game/1539/mafia-3
https://www.opencritic.com/game/1547...fect-andromeda
https://www.opencritic.com/game/4793/sonic-forces
https://www.opencritic.com/game/7884...con-breakpoint

I could keep going but it's quite boring, being an AAA game from a massive company means absolutely jack shit.

These are the exceptions that prove the rule. On the whole, usually people defer to that. Not all reviews are influenced, but people are less likely to receive review copies as reliably if they're not big publications.

Besides, if that was your takeaway from what I was saying, you're missing the point. I don't like numerical scores. That's literally it.

[Tech614]

These are the exceptions that prove the rule. On the whole, usually people defer to that. Not all reviews are influenced, but people are less likely to receive review copies as reliably if they're not big publications.

Besides, if that was your takeaway from what I was saying, you're missing the point. I don't like numerical scores. That's literally it.

"exceptions".

Hell lets look at just the exact same publisher as TLOU2.

https://www.opencritic.com/game/302/...ne-shadow-fall
https://www.opencritic.com/game/301/knack
https://www.opencritic.com/game/4491/knack-2
https://www.opencritic.com/game/107/the-order-1886
https://www.opencritic.com/game/9363...unting-grounds
https://www.opencritic.com/game/6846/days-gone
https://www.opencritic.com/game/193/driveclub

That's a hell of a lot of "exceptions" my dude since being an AAA game published by Sony guarantees a high score. Also ignoring the fact it's not just any high score its the 2nd highest score of the entire generation.

Also if you don't like numerical scores how about this number right on the page for TLOU2: 99% of reviews recommend the game. Or are you gonna make up some denial about that too?

[Vakir]

Also if you don't like numerical scores how about this number right on the page for TLOU2: 99% of reviews recommend the game. Or are you gonna make up some denial about that too?

You'd need to look more at individual reviewers rather than individual games, as many of those come from professional outlets that already have working relationships. Try standard names who weigh in against the grain but traditionally don't get review copies after the fact. Dunkey lost his privilege for doing that, famously when he panned a Microsoft game that he was sponsored by. Jim Sterling has been snubbed many a time for review copies. Hell, go ahead and ask Jeff Gershtmann how that worked out for him giving a poor score to Kane and Lynch 2. I'm not one of these extremist idiots that think every positive review is paid for, but the reality is that there is a pretty significant relationship between publisher and mainstream review publications. It's not always money equals ratings, either.

MGSV famously got slammed with near-perfect reviews, but when the public got a hand on it, people were disappointed and felt there was clear evidence of cut content. But when you look at the major source of the positive reviews, you get a better depiction - that of a 40 hour boot camp where reviewers were put into an environment where they shotgunned the core game in a few days without spending their own money and with Konami employees assisting them. That's going to change your perception of the game, and it doesn't mean the people who gave it high marks are somehow lacking in integrity, it's just the nature of the beast. But that's my point - I wouldn't give that game a low "score" if I gave a fuck about scores. It is a "good game." It looks nice, it plays nice, I spent hundreds of hours on it, and I liked it. But there is no way to share my thoughts about how it made me feel without going in depth on it. I can't boil it down to a number.

I already said what I feel about this: I really prefer it when reviewers make it more about a complex dialogue and go in-depth on their thoughts in a comprehensive manner because people have a tendency to break down scores without nuance and tend to lean more into making it a competition without accounting for looking purely at the message of the person giving their take or their personal preferences. I've seen too many preteens shriek and call someone "BIAS" (sic) for giving something a 9 when they wanted it to have a 10.

And for that reason, numbers always feel very simplistic to me, and it isn't about disagreeing, as I feel the same way when they're scores closer to what I'd "agree" with.

And ultimately, why are you taking it that not liking numerical scores means I want the game to do poorly? You have a tendency to get extremely defensive in this thread, and while I agree that many have an axe to grind, you have a tendency to get intense when people say something that you could even interpret them as being against your point of view, even if they aren't talking about anything related to the game itself. This is a perfect of exhibit of that. Not everyone who says something challenging to your personal hype has it out for you or even the game itself.

[Moose184]

https://www.opencritic.com/game/8351...-of-us-part-ii

95 average over 74 reviews with 99% recommendation.

Waiting with popcorn for all the people that said the game was gonna bomb to come eat their crow.

A game like that will never bomb just because of the name.

[Kallisto]

You know if all these people who pull the "Reviewers get money to give high reviews." conspiracy would actually show evidence outside of "It didn't get a low score and I hate it." they might be taken more seriously.

Aka show evidence, such as finding money trail from company A to company B

[A Chozo]

You know if all these people who pull the "Reviewers get money to give high reviews." conspiracy would actually show evidence outside of "It didn't get a low score and I hate it." they might be taken more seriously.

Aka show evidence, such as finding money trail from company A to company B

Eh... I don't know, those reviews that say that it's an instant classic are so weird.

There was even this guy who said that he had to pause the game to literally clap.

I mean, what the hell. I wish demos were still relevant, but in the case of TLoU - which is more movie than game - we really need the reviews, I guess. I wish they were less... sentimental, and more dry and direct.

[everydaygamer]

Eh... I don't know, those reviews that say that it's an instant classic are so weird.

There was even this guy who said that he had to pause the game to literally clap.

I mean, what the hell. I wish demos were still relevant, but in the case of TLoU - which is more movie than game - we really need the reviews, I guess. I wish they were less... sentimental, and more dry and direct.

You might find this hard to believe but critics are human too. They are capable of genuine enthusiasm towards what they are reviewing and frankly, I prefer that. I'm not sure I could take any review seriously if it came from someone who sounded like they didn't enjoy it and yet went on to give it a high score.

[RobertoCarlos]

I reckon even if the mouth breathers of the world hadn't spoiled certain plot points of this game the big one is kind of obvious from the marketing. They keep using the same footage of the character in the promos where as we see Ellie in lots of different locations and they keep going on about her quest for vengeance. Vengeance for what I wonder?

[Ahovv]

Look. There's no objective standard for reviews, but anyone who rates The Last of Us II a 10/10 is suggesting that it's on par with The Witcher 3 and Divinity: Original Sin 2, which in my opinion is laughable.

Any story where the characters fail to learn anything and keep repeating the same mistakes is not one I get immersed in.

It's like those horror movies where people are assholes and we as the viewers don't even care if they die.

You're free to disagree but I'm also free to say I shouldn't care about someone's review if our standards for games dramatically differ.

[Edge-]

Look. There's no objective standard for reviews, but anyone who rates The Last of Us II a 10/10 is suggesting that it's on par with The Witcher 3 and Divinity: Original Sin 2, which in my opinion is laughable.

Any story where the characters fail to learn anything and keep repeating the same mistakes is not one I get immersed in.

It's like those horror movies where people are assholes and we as the viewers don't even care if they die.

You're free to disagree but I'm also free to say I shouldn't care about someone's review if our standards for games dramatically differ.

You played the game already?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Look. There's no objective standard for reviews, but anyone who rates The Last of Us II a 10/10 is suggesting that it's on par with The Witcher 3 and Divinity: Original Sin 2, which in my opinion is laughable.

Any story where the characters fail to learn anything and keep repeating the same mistakes is not one I get immersed in.

It's like those horror movies where people are assholes and we as the viewers don't even care if they die.

You're free to disagree but I'm also free to say I shouldn't care about someone's review if our standards for games dramatically differ.

For all the many points divinity gets right story is one of the weaker points which really doesn’t stand up to a 10/10. A 10/10 for a story based game like TLOU wouldn’t be scored on the same basis as divinity so it would be easily to have them both be 10/10 even if there hitting different notes.

[minteK917]

You know if all these people who pull the "Reviewers get money to give high reviews." conspiracy would actually show evidence outside of "It didn't get a low score and I hate it." they might be taken more seriously.

Aka show evidence, such as finding money trail from company A to company B

Actually the money trail is easy to find. Im not gona say it works on all of them and direct. But say when gearbox invited a bunch of reviewers to a hot all paids private party to watch borderland 3 event. Thats pretty direct, short of giving you a brown envelope. How about programs like EA that gives you preview copies, allow you to do content without copyright, but if you shit on their games, you get removed pretty fast. How about Bestheda that used to welcome people in their E3 private show and then public reviewers that did not give them all glowing reviews start getting denied these invitation. The trail is not direct money, the trail is actually having access to them. It has an effect for sure, but not on everyone and if someone is big enough, they can even go against it for sure. But its pretty foolish to think access journalism is not a thing, all these companies will try as hard as they could to sway their reviews even if it doesent work on everyone. They try hard enough by throwing million dollard parties inviting people that do these reviews or comment on games. They try hard enough by selecting who gets their review copy.

Are reviewer paids for good score no, do all these company attempt to sway every reviewer they can, definitivly and if you are told you arent ever getting a review copy again, youll try to be a bit more diplomatic and optimist about a review if you think these reviews are gona be in high enough demand that your website will get clicks for it in the future.