We've reached that lull

[Dispirit]

Pvp this entire expansion has sucked unless you were a melee, how have we "just reached that point."

I refer you to my previous message where I mentioned the end of Legion season 2 was actually pretty decent by WoW standards. Burst was actually manageable with cds. No "1 shots" through defensive cds. Casters and melee both had viable top tier comps. The healers were all in a good place. Fun was to be had. Then 7.2.5 happened and everything went to hell with little to no balance fixes. Which was also unusual, because up until then, they were doing balance adjustments like every week.

[Super Kami Dende]

PVP was as big as PVE since they added BGs.

The number of people who did random BGs was about the same as the number of people who did 5-man instances. Etc.

No. Just No. Blizzard themselves have said many many times that PvE players largely outweigh the PvP players. It's why for so long they were hesitant to nerf abilties because of PvP because of their larger affect on PvE players.

Hell at one point Celestalon (i think, May have been another Dev though) said more people do Pet Battles than PvP.

[Mafic]

I refer you to my previous message where I mentioned the end of Legion season 2 was actually pretty decent by WoW standards. Burst was actually manageable with cds. No "1 shots" through defensive cds. Casters and melee both had viable top tier comps. The healers were all in a good place. Fun was to be had. Then 7.2.5 happened and everything went to hell with little to no balance fixes. Which was also unusual, because up until then, they were doing balance adjustments like every week.

Yeah after patch 7.2.5 launched they kind of gave up. But Holinka quit around that time and afterwards there were some balance changes.

7.3 is a litmus test to see how the team responds without Holinka. So far it has been utter silence which is quite sad.

[rda]

No. Just No. Blizzard themselves have said many many times that PvE players largely outweigh the PvP players. It's why for so long they were hesitant to nerf abilties because of PvP because of their larger affect on PvE players.

Hell at one point Celestalon (i think, May have been another Dev though) said more people do Pet Battles than PvP.

You might have mistaken rated vs unrated. I repeat, the number of people who did random BGs was about the same as the number of people who did 5-man instances. That was in Blizzard's infographic, for example. The number of people who did rated PVP was smaller, sure. About the same as the number of people who did raids.

[netherflame]

I refer you to my previous message where I mentioned the end of Legion season 2 was actually pretty decent by WoW standards. Burst was actually manageable with cds. No "1 shots" through defensive cds. Casters and melee both had viable top tier comps. The healers were all in a good place. Fun was to be had. Then 7.2.5 happened and everything went to hell with little to no balance fixes. Which was also unusual, because up until then, they were doing balance adjustments like every week.

Top 15 has 3 casters, how would you call that viable? Additionally none of those casters are a surprise to me, they've been really strong arena classes in the past.

[Dispirit]

Top 15 has 3 casters, how would you call that viable? Additionally none of those casters are a surprise to me, they've been really strong arena classes in the past.

Are you looking at last season or this season? I'm talking about last season being decent at the end of it.

[netherflame]

Are you looking at last season or this season? I'm talking about last season being decent at the end of it.

End of last season and the current picture,

[Softbottom]

I haven't found pvp enjoyable for a number of expansions. I literally just do it to get 2k rating and the elite transmog. I can't even bothered to unlock the skin color variants at this point because the prestige levels go so fucking slow. I do the WQ's for prestige here and there but otherwise I can't be bothered to pvp at all now.

[Shakari]

It also seemed that he was making up numbers from time to time to try and tell that "things are going gud" while they weren't - or at the very least he had no clue regarding statistics and how to measure things without talking yourself into the result you want to see.

Now that Holinka is gone, I am feeling kind of sorry for him. But he really was terrible for PVP. Maybe not the main reason PVP became so trash, but certainly he was part of the problem rather than part of the solution - the only positive thing that happened while he was there was the conquest catch-up and it is pretty telling that even that little bit of good was just removed.

- - - Updated - - -



PVP was as big as PVE, they made it tiny by their bad changes and lack of good changes.

- - - Updated - - -



It is far too late to do anything related to PVP in Legion.

The only hope is for the next expansion. If PVP will make it to their list of big bullet points for the next expansion, it might be worth looking into. If PVP won't be one of their focus areas - and you can only have a few such areas per expansion - then it wouldn't even be worth checking whether PVP is dead or not, it will absolutely stay dead (and the grave will accumulate a layer of dust).

PvP has never been as big a part of the game as PvE but it is a part of the game I feel has changed for the worse in some ways.

[Deleted]

It's funny people say PvP is tiny compared to pve but though my years since Vanilla WoW every player I met and knew IRL played it to do arena and/ or bg's. PvE was just something they did further to enjoy the game and gear up but wasn't their priority. So OF COURSE saying most people pve'd is true, because most PvP'ers tend do to PvE aswell so you just can't put numbers on that.

[heinz0r]

PVP was as big as PVE, they made it tiny by their bad changes and lack of good changes.

Yep, when they released all those stats I believe around the end of Cataclysm, pvp was even played more than pve by the general playerbase. But thats also the expansion where the game really started to decline in terms of pvp and combat gameplay in general. But hell... would I want to at least go back to shitty cata right now

It is always funny though when people keep bringing up this crap about pve always being so much larger than pvp when it really wasn't. I bet this was always a thorn in the side of a bunch of blizzard devs. Watching a couple of those responses on twitter around the start of the expansio,n there was even some interview videos of lead devs talking down on pvp and joking around with "shut up pvp guy" comments, that really showed us what they really think about pvp in their game and how much hope we can have looking at this in the next few expansions.

I guess it is time to go find some well populated bc/wotlk/cata free shards...