Active shooter on Las Vegas strip.

[Dextroden]

No, I'm sure that, in this hypothetical situation, folks would be pretty happy to actually be doing something to try to deal with the issue, and optimistic that efforts would have a meaningful benefit.

But hey, some folks may make some snarky comments so fuck all that noise. Let's continue to do nothing and have the highest gun-related crime/murder rate of any developned nation, and one that rivals third world countries. Because that's a way better solution than trying to do anything, amirite Dextroden?

Oh, I'm not against trying. I'm just not expecting anything from the people that come in to say ban guns with nothing else to it and nation bashing that is strangely approved.

It's like what do you tell people like that when shootings still happen while you hope people turn their guns over? Like no criminal background check would have stopped this. If he doesn't voluntarily turn himself in or his family doesn't turn him in because he has no clear mental issues, how does a mental health check prevent this?

I need more than ban guns and the expectation that a gun buyback will solve everything.

Plus, y'know. The people that don't die in mass shootings that people like you ignore.

[jibberbox85]

Depends on how we do it. We could do gun buybacks like I believe Australia did, and like there have been in the US in cities over the years. That gets a large number of initial guns off the streets. If folks want to continue to own and safely store them/pass them down that's fine as well, but the guns become those peoples responsibility to secure and failure to do so becomes a legal problem that ends with them losing said gun.

It's not as if there aren't methods of dealing with it, nor is it like people thing that magic exists and will somehow spirit all the guns away.

We just need to start the conversation in a meaningful way, because you're jumping straight to the very end and we've got a long, long, long, long road to walk before we're anywhere near there.



We do, and there are plenty of different approaches to that issue. But we need to fucking get started, first. You guys are jumping straight to the last fucking chapter, and this is, and should be, a discussion and a process. We're not there yet, we have a long way before we are.

Chicago has the highest crime rate in all the US with over 800 homicides last year, and around 400 this year. With that said, it has been stated by the police force in Chicago that most of the guns used in those crimes were not of the legal caliber. Also, most of those homicides were committed by gang groups.

[Egomaniac]

Actually that list has 35 non US cases so it's only 91 in US.

Even so...that's 90+ from the US compared to 105 from all of Europe combined..and a few of those countries are not what anyone would call "First World"

[potatojenkins]

No, that comes right now. That is the only thing that matters. What are you willing to do to those that refuse to hand over their weapons to a government that they see has become tyrannical? The very reason why the second amendment was created for. This is THE meaningful discussion. You can't get to the actual plans if you can't discuss this.

Do you feel that most every other civilized nation's government, except America's, is tyrannical for getting rid of guns?

[Youn]

Should stick to comparing 1st world countries. We have terrible stats compared to them looking back till 1990.

EDIT: Also, why compare our single country to an entire continent? At least acknowledge that their population is roughly twice ours and with varying gun laws.

Are they the European Union of 514 Million people or 28 individual political borders with their own laws plus a central government set of laws?

Is the United States 329 Million people or 53 Individual political borders (counting DC, PR, VI) with their own Individual set of laws plus a central government set of laws?

Which does to European Union wish to be known as.. A single country or 28 countries?

[urasim]

Do you feel that most every other civilized nation's government, except America's, is tyrannical for getting rid of guns?

No. Don't strawman me.

[Draco-Onis]

Chicago has the highest crime rate in all the US with over 800 homicides last year, and around 400 this year. With that said, it has been stated by the police force in Chicago that most of the guns used in those crimes were not of the legal caliber. Also, most of those homicides were committed by gang groups.

Per capita no it does not

https://www.policeone.com/ambush/art...t-murder-rate/

[AlphaOut]

Chicago has the highest crime rate in all the US with over 800 homicides last year, and around 400 this year. With that said, it has been stated by police force in Chicago that most of the guns used in those crimes were not of the legal caliber. Also, most of those homicides were committed by gang groups.

Yes, absolutely. let's ban guns and make them all illegal. Then the government can get control of illegal guns like they have gotten control of illegal drugs, Midget Porn, illegal sex trafficking, illegal aliens and the national debt.

[Naiattavain]

Trolls feasting absolutely disgusting just like the shooters dark plan. we will find out more information about the shooters motive. its too soon and we don't know why.

[Daelak]

I don't own guns. I've never fired one. I've never held one. I'm not an authoritarian. You wanting to FORCIBLE remove guns by the way of the government is the definition of authoritarian. You're anti-liberal.

Laws that are passed through the democratic process if not forcible. You support the very actions anti-thetical to democracy, much like your ideological forebears when they forced actual patriots and rebels to lessen the representation in government or threat of war. The institutions of the Senate, the electoral college, and slavery are all hallmarks and idolized anti-democratic measures that have been a curse on this country.

[Eisaderfrau]

Why did you ever make that many to begin with?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estima...ita_by_country

Taking account some people won't own 1 then that's 2-3 per person who does. What's the purpose for that?

Purpose for owning 2-3 guns? This may come as a surprise but different guns have different uses. In fact, a good goal is to have the "4 guns everyone should own": 1 handgun, 1 shotgun, 1 .22 rimfire long rifle and 1 centerfire rifle. Each has a purpose and a range. Each does something the others don't. So yes, there are very valid reasons to have more than one gun.

[potatojenkins]

No. Don't strawman me.

I'm just curious. What makes them not tyrannical, but the US doing the same thing tyrannical?

[Dextroden]

Tyrannical? Riiiight. You not understanding basic words seems to be your problem.

- - - Updated - - -



How is citing statistics nation bashing?

And just because certain measure MIGHT have not stopped this incident, doesn't mean it wouldn't have stopped alot of past or future incidents.

Murder happy gun loving Americans is a statistic?

[urasim]

Tyrannical? Riiiight. You not understanding basic words seems to be your problem.

You, like potato, are strawmanning me. I never said I consider them tyrannical. You fail.

[Youn]

The reason to own multiple guns is the same reason people own multiple baseball cards or multiple cars. People collect stuff...

[urasim]

I'm just curious. What makes them not tyrannical, but the US doing the same thing tyrannical?

Do you not understand basic words? I am not them. I don't know how I can make it clearer.

[Runenwächter]

Well fear of worse case scenarios shouldn't stop us from doing the right thing, knowing gun data is a good first step towards cracking down on illegal gun sales. There are even ways to do it to protect privacy but I don't see the point the government knows far more private things about you than owning a gun. This is like worrying about getting too wet while swimming in the ocean.

I am not disputing that that would be a good motive and a worthy cause, but I am pointing out that it might come at a price that you can not determine and that the worst case scenario is something we shoud strife to avoid. Or rather the US citizens should avoid, I live in cozy disarmed Europe and believe you me, we of course look at you with confusion and pity when incidents like these happen. But at the same time a lot of us envy that your state, your government, yet trusts you with the responsibility to be armed and to maintain a minimum of potential for armed resistance.

[kail]

Are they the European Union of 514 Million people or 28 individual political borders with their own laws plus a central government set of laws?

Is the United States 329 Million people or 53 Individual political borders (counting DC, PR, VI) with their own Individual set of laws plus a central government set of laws?

Which does to European Union wish to be known as.. A single country or 28 countries?

They are different countries, we are a single country. Each independent country in the EU have differences in language, laws, healthcare. political elections, etc. You are trying to compare each of our states as a single European country.

Population is the general comparison, but you want to compare populations under the same laws if you want better accuracy.

[potatojenkins]

You, like potato, are strawmanning me. I never said I consider them tyrannical. You fail.

If you're wondering what the PEOPLE who would THINK it would be tyrannical, and not actually calling it tyrannical would do, didn't Nexx226's post answer that?

[Youn]

We have a set of State laws, We follow a central federal government. The only difference is we have been doing it for over 200 years and they have been doing it for less then 25 years. In 150 years, more will they call them self one country or 28?