Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[zenkai]

To all those who simply want to "stick it to the libs", congrats, you will bring this country closer to an autocracy where eventually even your opinion won't matter.

Your spitefulness will be the downfall to everyone. And all you get is a stupid red hat. SMH.

How so? I have not seen any evidence for such a claim.

[Edge-]

lol, you are calling a wall racist

No, this wall is racist. But I'm glad you're not reading my posts.

Then no harm done in leaving your apartment open 24/7, right?

Considering this is a strawman and not an accurate analogy, I'm not even going to entertain this nonsense notion.

Reality: Just because the police doesn't stop 100% of the crimes and loopholes exist, doesnt mean the police is meaningless.

No, but the fact that this "THE WALL" is less effective than a little piggies house made out of sticks or straw, does. It makes it a monumental waste of money as it's not accomplishing its stated goal.

A huge deterrent to illegal immigration will pay itself many many times over.

Facts aren't bearing this out, bucko. They're still tunneling under it and bringing drugs through, they're still climbing over it, they're still cutting through it, and the majority of illegal drugs still enter through legal checkpoints and not unprotected crossings.

Please join us in reality.

[zenkai]

This wall is racist, yes. But I'm glad facts, nuance, and context doesn't seem to have butted into your reality yet.

And I mean, I live in an apartment complex with plenty of immigrant families. I don't know them too well (or any of my neighbors), but our interactions have always been lovely and I'd have no problem having more move in.

Not that "THEWALL" is actually doing anything because you know...it can be defeated by...

A ladder
Consumer-grade power tools
Rope
Tunnels
The fucking wind

So it's really largely just a gigantic art installation, as it's doing nothing to accomplish the job it's supposed to. I guess Republicans finally decided to support the arts, but just chose the shittiest fucking art installation possible.

Boarder security isn't racist

[Edge-]

Boarder security isn't racist

I never said that, either. What's with "totally not Trump supporters" being unable to actually read what people write?

[zenkai]

I never said that, either. What's with "totally not Trump supporters" being unable to actually read what people write?

The wall is part of boarder security, thus you are saying boarder security is racist. I like how you label everyone you disagree with as a Trump supporter, try arguing honestly and focusing on facts. I'm not pro wall, but I also know the wall isn't racist, because, common sense.

[Edge-]

The wall is part of boarder security, thus you are saying boarder security is racist.

You're making that argument up for me on my behalf by intentionally excluding all context.

Don't put words in my mouth (or in this case, fingers).

[zenkai]

You're making that argument up for me on my behalf by intentionally excluding all context.

Don't put words in my mouth (or in this case, fingers).

I am sorry if I misunderstood, what part of "the wall is racist" did I miss understand?

[Edge-]

I am sorry if I misunderstood, what part of "the wall is racist" did I miss understand?

That this specific wall, given the complete lack of any preparation including...

- Cost/benefit analysis
- Expert testimony and analysis from security experts and engineers
- Environmental impact reports
- Test to make sure the wind doesn't fucking blow it over
- The fact that it's already been "defeated" in every way predicted, and some ways not
- I could go on

Show that this was never a real, concerted effort to build something that works as intended and isn't a gigantic art installation. My point is that this is a monumental waste of money on something that's already proving to be ineffective and not a serious proposal or effective way to secure the border.

And we have all the data to back this up, while the Trump side (including you, no matter how much you may whine about it) doesn't have shit for data to back up their side of this.

You know, the context I said you intentionally ignored. Because you did.

[Xyonai]

I never said that, either. What's with "totally not Trump supporters" being unable to actually read what people write?

Because context is hard for some people / being deliberately obtuse is easier then actually bothering to argue the merits of something otherwise devoid of merit.

There's this, frankly stupid, notion that just because people are unhappy with how border security is being handled that they want all border security dissolved without replacement because the line between 'An inefficient Wall and Internment Camps' and 'An Open Door' seems to not exist.

[zenkai]

That this specific wall, given the complete lack of any preparation including...

- Cost/benefit analysis
- Expert testimony and analysis from security experts and engineers
- Environmental impact reports
- Test to make sure the wind doesn't fucking blow it over
- The fact that it's already been "defeated" in every way predicted, and some ways not
- I could go on

Show that this was never a real, concerted effort to build something that works as intended and isn't a gigantic art installation. My point is that this is a monumental waste of money on something that's already proving to be ineffective and not a serious proposal or effective way to secure the border.

I can dissagree with you on those points but I disagree with

This wall is racist, yes. .

[Edge-]

I can dissagree with you on those points but I disagree with

I don't care if you agree or not, that's reality. "THE WALL" is literally just a terrible art installation that can't even protect the US border from strong gusts of wind. How on earth is it supposed to stop or deter a human being?

[pathora44]

I don't care if you agree or not, that's reality. "THE WALL" is literally just a terrible art installation that can't even protect the US border from strong gusts of wind. How on earth is it supposed to stop or deter a human being?

Don't forget ladders and 100 dollar power saws.

[zenkai]

I don't care if you agree or not, that's reality. "THE WALL" is literally just a terrible art installation that can't even protect the US border from strong gusts of wind. How on earth is it supposed to stop or deter a human being?

Well even though I am not pro wall, I think going after employers is better, but to say it's useless is ignorant.

Illegal immigrants rescued at border wall in California after 'precarious situation

A U.S. Customs and Border Protection news release said that around midnight Sunday, agents on patrol saw three people perched on top of the wall near Otay Mesa. The three, a man and two women, attempted to enter the U.S. illegally in dense fog by climbing the San Diego Sector’s new 30-foot, steel bollard wall before getting stuck, according to officials.

[Edge-]

Well even though I am not pro wall, I think going after employers is better, but to say it's useless is ignorant.

Illegal immigrants rescued at border wall in California after 'precarious situation

3 people doesn't make it effective, that's an anecdotal single data point. Where's the data on how effective it actually is in reducing overall border crossings so that we can run something basic like a cost-benefit analysis?

Or are we dropping billions just to stop a few folks from crossing the border and that's totally a good use of money?

- - - Updated - - -

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...er-night-while

Unsurprisingly, the Trump familiar are liars. Contrary to Donnie Jr's claims, Trump charges US Secret Service, on the taxpayer time, $650 a night to stay at his properties. They do not, as Donnie Jr claimed, stay for "free".

The Trump family is continuing the tradition that Donald's grandfather started of making their fortunes off of improperly taking taxpayer funding and then inaccurately reporting their finances to avoid paying tax dollars that they rely on back to Uncle Sam.

[Zan15]

Just when you think republicans could not get any more hypocritical....


https://thehill.com/policy/finance/4...to-republicans


Rep. Bill Pascrell (D-N.J.) is criticizing the Treasury Department for providing Republican senators with financial records as part of their probe concerning Hunter Biden.
Pascrell, a member of the House Ways and Means Committee, blasted the department for turning over the documents while at the same time refusing to provide House Democrats with President Trump's tax returns.


"Continuing to violate the law to shield Donald Trump’s tax returns while simultaneously aiding a blatantly partisan investigation is an affront to public service," Pascrell wrote in a letter dated Thursday to Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin.

[Cizr]

"Wall can be defeated by a ladder so its useless" is not an argument. Guess what? Door to your home can be defeated by a paperclip but that does not mean that you should leave your door open when you leave your home.

Lets go back to reality and look at how barriers work. Back in 2015 Hungary was besieged by immigrants. They build a fence to deal with that.

August - 57k immigrants entered Hungary
September - 138k
October - 99k
*Fence was build*
November - 300 (not 300 thousand)
December - 270

Attempted border entries have fallen since the barrier was constructed. During the month of September 2015 there was a total number of 138,396 migrant entries, and within the first two weeks of November the average daily number of intercepted migrants decreased to only 15, which is a daily reduction of more than 4,500

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier

[kaid]

"Wall can be defeated by a ladder so its useless" is not an argument. Guess what? Door to your home can be defeated by a paperclip but that does not mean that you should leave your door open when you leave your home.

Lets go back to reality and look at how barriers work. Back in 2015 Hungary was besieged by immigrants. They build a fence to deal with that.

August - 57k immigrants entered Hungary
September - 138k
October - 99k
*Fence was build*
November - 300 (not 300 thousand)
December - 270

Attempted border entries have fallen since the barrier was constructed. During the month of September 2015 there was a total number of 138,396 migrant entries, and within the first two weeks of November the average daily number of intercepted migrants decreased to only 15, which is a daily reduction of more than 4,500

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier

The fence has not been built. There is some small number of new miles under construction but so far the only "wall" being built was retrofitting/replacing existing structures. So your numbers if anything show the wall is very much not worth the money if you can bring down levels that far without it.

[Moonstream]

Key impeachment witness Vindman fired from White House job

Washington (CNN)Lt. Col. Alex Vindman, the top Ukraine expert at the National Security Council, was pushed out of his role Friday months earlier than expected, according to a statement from his attorney. Vindman was not slated to leave until July, but had been telling colleagues in recent weeks he would likely leave soon. It was not his decision to leave, however, according to one person familiar with the situation.

President Donald Trump has continued to fume privately about Vindman's testimony during the impeachment inquiry, and some Democrats say the move is clearly retribution for it.

Vindman is expected to return to the Pentagon, though it's still unclear what his assignment will be until he's expected to attend war college this summer.

"We welcome back all of our service members, wherever they serve, to any assignment they are given," Defense Secretary Mark Esper said Friday when asked about Vindman's expected ouster.

Not entirely surprising. We all know how vindictive Donnie is.

[Cizr]

The fence has not been built. There is some small number of new miles under construction but so far the only "wall" being built was retrofitting/replacing existing structures. So your numbers if anything show the wall is very much not worth the money if you can bring down levels that far without it.

The fence in Hungary was not built ?

[Somewhatconcerned]

that new bill i heard about last night is proof that some of these fucking people want basically 0 border enforcement in any way. the "new way forward act". everybody behind that shit needs to be kicked out of the country.

This is the kind of stuff Carville was talking about...this is madness during an election season where you already have flawed candidates and then you have the extreme members of your party putting stuff like this out. Easy ammo. Zero insight.