1. #63121
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I disagree with your thoughts about Section 230. The results would be more than "MMO-C bans trolls for posting conspiracy theories" it would be "trolls chain-sue MMO-C for posts they disagree with, MMO-C shuts down forums entirely".

    No, Democrats won't shut down social media just to call McConnell's bluff.
    Yeah, screw Mitch. That is not just a poison pill, but straight up toxic waste. It would kill the internet as we know it forever. He's literally saying to people drowning in the ocean, I have a life raft that can save everyone, but I don't feel like using it.
    Looking for <Good Quotes for Signature>.

  2. #63122
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    California: 32,525 new cases; 427 deaths
    You might as well have marked this as a new record; the only reason it wasn't is because the large update to yesterday's numbers pushed California to 430 after you posted the total at 203, so you never got a chance to mark yesterday as the new record.


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  3. #63123
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I disagree with your thoughts about Section 230. The results would be more than "MMO-C bans trolls for posting conspiracy theories" it would be "trolls chain-sue MMO-C for posts they disagree with, MMO-C shuts down forums entirely".

    No, Democrats won't shut down social media just to call McConnell's bluff.
    Maybe they should. The issue could be revisited under Biden, especially considering his deputy chief of staff also wants it completely reformed.
    Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. --Frank Wilhoit

  4. #63124
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    Maybe they should. The issue could be revisited under Biden, especially considering his deputy chief of staff also wants it completely reformed.
    The ramifications would be astronomical, even if it lasts a week. Wikipidia would be gone... it’s taking China’s censorship, but including everything on the banned list. Instead of just shit against US, it would be everything.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  5. #63125
    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    Maybe they should. The issue could be revisited under Biden, especially considering his deputy chief of staff also wants it completely reformed.
    And honestly the social media companies would fire off law suites instantly and the chance of that lasting under the withering barrage of court cases is low given how corporate friendly the SCOTUS is. Then you get into the freedom of speech and freedom of religeon issues it would likely get tossed pretty fast as unconstitutional.

  6. #63126
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    The ramifications would be astronomical, even if it lasts a week. Wikipidia would be gone... it’s taking China’s censorship, but including everything on the banned list. Instead of just shit against US, it would be everything.
    McConnell does not want members of his caucus on record for this vote which is why he's saying it can't be passed instead of bringing it to a vote. I have to admit I'm curious.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaid View Post
    And honestly the social media companies would fire off law suites instantly and the chance of that lasting under the withering barrage of court cases is low given how corporate friendly the SCOTUS is. Then you get into the freedom of speech and freedom of religeon issues it would likely get tossed pretty fast as unconstitutional.
    And there's no question Trump is dying to sue twitter, too, for sure--it would be nice if Democrats got creative and brave enough to beat McConnell at his own game for once.
    Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. --Frank Wilhoit

  7. #63127
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    McConnell does not want members of his caucus on record for this vote which is why he's saying it can't be passed instead of bringing it to a vote. I have to admit I'm curious.
    If anything, this needs to be a lesson to those pushing AOC and other progressives, to attack Palosi over a M4A bill. You see what this fuck face does with votes that should be a no brainer... ceremonial votes are a huge risk. You want to shame McConnel? The guy who has been holding up a vote on Violence Against Women Act renewal, since March 2019? Good luck...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  8. #63128
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    If anything, this needs to be a lesson to those pushing AOC and other progressives, to attack Palosi over a M4A bill. You see what this fuck face does with votes that should be a no brainer... ceremonial votes are a huge risk. You want to shame McConnel? The guy who has been holding up a vote on Violence Against Women Act renewal, since March 2019? Good luck...
    Oh McConnell is unshame-able and gets off on being despised, but he is very very serious about protecting his members, his majority, and his speakership, which is the line he's trying to walk here--Republicans don't want to cross Trump and risk getting primaried or otherwise tanking their political futures, but they also want to make sure Biden can't get anything done, hence they're born-again virgin Deficit Hawks. McConnell wants to make sure they don't have to go on record, they can say whatever need to to their constituencies and not get blamed for refusing to provide relief. McConnell is actually on the back foot here.
    Last edited by Levelfive; 2020-12-31 at 05:12 AM.
    Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. --Frank Wilhoit

  9. #63129
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    Oh McConnell is unshame-able and gets off on being despised, but he is very very serious about protecting his members, his majority, and his speakership, which is the line he's trying to walk here--Republicans don't want to cross Trump and risk getting primaried or otherwise tanking their political futures, but they also want to make sure Biden can't get anything done, hence they're born again-virgin Deficit Hawks. McConnell wants to make sure they don't have to go on record, they can say whatever need to to their constituencies, and not get blamed for refusing to provide relief. McConnell is actually on the back foot here.
    I just hope democrats take the senate... I like what Vaush calls it... Anarcho-Bidenist until January 20th... then we take the bitch down!!!
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  10. #63130
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    I just hope democrats take the senate... I like what Vaush calls it... Anarcho-Bidenist until January 20th... then we take the bitch down!!!
    I can't bring myself to believe we'll take the Senate. Elizabeth Warren put out a list somewhere of things Biden can get done without Congress. I cling to that.
    Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. --Frank Wilhoit

  11. #63131
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    I can't bring myself to believe we'll take the Senate. Elizabeth Warren put out a list somewhere of things Biden can get done without Congress. I cling to that.
    I am going into new year with a positive attitude... have not watched wrestling since Sunday... nothing will distract me from positivity into new year...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  12. #63132
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    As I've said, I completely agree with what's being said about them, but I don't really agree that majority of people will see this as troops getting away with any crime that they want, especially since the military themselves sided with the Iraqi government, in condemning the actions of Blackwater and faulting them (Blackwater) for what happened.

    Yes, the military employed this private company, meaning the contractors were representing them, but I'm not going to compare these civilians as actual service members, cause they weren't. If anything, I put majority of the blame on the Erick Prince and whoever else owned the company, including those who were responsible for hiring the individuals that they contracted out to the military.

    The military definitely doesn't have clean hands, don't get me wrong.
    You might not want to hear this, but from my outside perspective it is even worse:

    That criminal army members rarely face charges for killing second rate people (aka. middle easteners) isn't something new. We all remember Abu Ghraib. So, the US cracking down on misbehavior on their troops? No one in my country would ever expect that. We have enough examples that this imperialistic army gets away with many war crimes.

    And, that's not special to Donald Trump. Every President of my life time is tangled up in this (from my outside perspective) weird patriotism that shield itself from any criticism.

    The only new thing is that they not only give murderers of the official forces a pass, but now also the private goons.

    But let's be clear, that the american imperialistic forces rarely face consequences isn't something new, and i cannot say i'm surprised.

    From my perspective the only difference between the US army and blackwater goons is the uniform. Their methods, goals and commands are the same.

    I at least hope the military is outraged by the pardons, least of all because of self interest. If the americans don't face any consequences, it's just one more reason for them to be attacked without remorse. If i'd be an Iraqi I'd see them as an occupying pillaging force without any morals, and yeah i'd not shed a tear for some goons to be deleted from this world.
    Last edited by Pannonian; 2020-12-31 at 11:16 AM.

  13. #63133
    Completely caving was always the first option, really: https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...-end-in-senate
    Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. --Frank Wilhoit

  14. #63134
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    Completely caving was always the first option, really: https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...-end-in-senate
    Bernie didn’t cave and caving wasn’t an option, it was a feature of this whole circus. Trump tried vengeance against republicans and they responded by saying he is their tool, not the other way around.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  15. #63135
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Bernie didn’t cave and caving wasn’t an option, it was a feature of this whole circus. Trump tried vengeance against republicans and they responded by saying he is their tool, not the other way around.
    How was caving not an option when that's exactly what they did? A handful of Democrats didn't cave, which still gave McConnell exactly what he and his caucus needed.
    Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. --Frank Wilhoit

  16. #63136
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    How was caving not an option when that's exactly what they did? A handful of Democrats didn't cave, which still gave McConnell exactly what he and his caucus needed.
    How? The same way a bug, can be a feature. Trump and Democrats thought they could shame republicans into going along with 2k. McConnell added the other two provisions that Trump asked for, then served it back to democrats. Who caved, when this was the whole point of the game?

    Edit: Just to be clear... Democrats didn’t cave... they got out played.

    Edit 2: Do you think most people understand what Section 230 entails, beyond being support for big tech? Do you think most people would consider a special council into the election, be worth 2k?

    Edit 3: This is a misconception I keep pointing out. What you see now, is the norm under Mitch. This isn’t compromise by the democrats to go further right... it’s repeatedly getting owned, when trying symbolic gestures that go beyond encromentalism. It’s not that democrats are compromising... they are losing...
    Last edited by Felya; 2020-12-31 at 01:19 PM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  17. #63137
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    How? The same way a bug, can be a feature. Trump and Democrats thought they could shame republicans into going along with 2k. McConnell added the other two provisions that Trump asked for, then served it back to democrats. Who caved, when this was the whole point of the game?

    Edit: Just to be clear... Democrats didn’t cave... they got out played.
    There's no material difference between caving and getting "outplayed" here. It went something like this:

    Dems: "Oho, we'll make you take an uncomfortable vote!"

    McConnell: "Oho, we'll make YOU take an uncomfortable vote."

    Dems: "Ok, you win."

    They basically prevented Bernie from using Senate rules to Dems' advantage, like McConnell always does, and they didn't bother also involving themselves, as politicians, in politics. They got outplayed by caving.
    Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. --Frank Wilhoit

  18. #63138
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    There's no material difference between caving and getting "outplayed" here.
    There is... it means they didn’t understand the game.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  19. #63139
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    There is... it means they didn’t understand the game.
    If you need a semantic win, I won't stand in your way.
    Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. --Frank Wilhoit

  20. #63140
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    If you need a semantic win, I won't stand in your way.
    Way to be anti-semantic... noted...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

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