Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Gelannerai]

Especially when they talk about the Kennedys as Christ-like figures that are going to reaffirm their faith. It’s literally a cult at this point.

Oh definitely. Taking the stance that any position a Republican takes is automatically right (even if it inherently involves overt criminal behavior) and that any position a Democrat takes is automatically wrong is deification of political parties. If the GOP is the sole arbiter of truth and morality, then they are faultless and divine.

[Fugus]

This is starting to sound like the intro to a cartoon series I have seen scrolling through Netflix.

Where the politicians were reptiles, the weather was controlled by a guy in accounting and the DOW was fueled by blood sacrifices if I remember the preview right.

[Breccia]

Where the politicians were reptiles, the weather was controlled by a guy in accounting

Wait, isn't that G.I.Joe? The Weather Dominator, to be precise?

On topic: It's once again time to play Guess the Speaker! This is a quote from yet another new book:

This repeated request for votes showed me that Trump really had no idea how elections work. The secretary of state’s office doesn’t allocate any votes.

At the time of the call in January, I didn’t know if he believed what he was saying. I didn’t know if he was trying to push a narrative, or was he just believing stuff that was fed to him? As a conservative-with-a-capital-C Republican, I’m disappointed like everyone else is. But the cold hard facts are that Trump did come up short in the state of Georgia.

I wanted to respond to him respectfully, but also let him know in no uncertain terms that what he just said was not supported by the facts. Every single allegation that he made in that call and every allegation that his surrogates made, we ran those down and they were not supported by the facts.

"Well, the most obvious guess is Raffensperger, but it could be anyone in the WH listening to Trump yell at speakerphone."

It is actually Raffensperger, one of many Republicans but not Party of Trump suicide cultists.

Just so we're clear: Raffensperger looked into all the allegations, even the batshit crazy ones -- something I wouldn't have done if my own father had asked me. ("No, Dad, the dead aren't rising from their graves to vote, also how did you get into my Halloween media folder?") They were all false. For this, he received death threats. Trump's rabid fanbase have threatened the lives of him and his children, because they would rather die -- or kill -- than admit they were wrong.

"Sounds like you think Raffensperger is 100% perfect and can do nothing wrong!"

Fuck, no.

I guess you could say God put me in this time that he knew that I would have the courage and the conviction to do the right thing. And I’m very thankful that I did. Because it was the right thing to do, because it was based on the facts, it was based on the law, it was based on the Constitution.

Yeah I'm not too keen on people saying "God put me in a bad situation to test me" or related depictions. I'd go into more detail...but not here.

[Poopymonster]

One of the posts discussing today misspelled the world knoll as noel which is kinda priceless.

As of 3 years and one wardrobe malfunction ago, Noel wasn't grassy at all.

[Breccia]

One of the posts discussing today misspelled the world knoll as noel which is kinda priceless.

COME ON! Christmas has already swallowed up Thanksgiving and is going for Halloween, do they really need this too?

[Edge-]

Is this a hootinany?

Like, I get that these are more likely excuses to go out and meet their fellow retarded conspiracy theory nutters so they can swap which YT channels and Telegram accounts and podcasts they like to listen to and shit. But at the same time like...do they not realize how actually wilfully retarded they are?

Jesus christ on a fuckin stick.

[Poopymonster]

Is this a hootinany?

Like, I get that these are more likely excuses to go out and meet their fellow retarded conspiracy theory nutters so they can swap which YT channels and Telegram accounts and podcasts they like to listen to and shit. But at the same time like...do they not realize how actually wilfully retarded they are?

Jesus christ on a fuckin stick.

I wonder how many people seen above will be involved in the next domestic terrorist attack.
I also wonder how many people are looking at that picture and saying "Hey, that's Jesse from down the street." or "Isn't that your inbred brother?"
I also also wonder how many will be reported to the FBI after the first "I wonder" by the people in "I also wonder".
Sounds wonderful to me.

[Breccia]

I get that these are more likely excuses to go out and meet their fellow retarded conspiracy theory nutters

Wait...why aren't they suspicious of each other? Literally their only common bond is paranoia.

[Fugus]

Wait, isn't that G.I.Joe? The Weather Dominator, to be precise?

Just googled.

The Netflix Original Series is called “Inside Job”.

The preview makes it look like the QAnon conspiracies were animated.

[Lenonis]

the people...

The worst part of this and what makes it so deeply unethical and awful is that you don't even believe that. You know Trump's role in the way conservatives have and continue to defy laws, science, and common sense to prolong and worsen the pandemic response. You know that Trump has lied, misled, and deflected all the way though his bungled response.

But because you have no principles you decide to try to deflect and obfuscate because you have a certain set of beliefs that would be inconvenienced if you had to admit your orange idol was an utter failure.

But carry on -- history is going to look back on you people and laugh for all eternity.

[Machismo]

sweden didn't even have any lockdowns and we've pulled through far better than usa with the lockdowns and the mask mandate, something we didn't have in sweden either... it's the people... don't try to blame politicians for something that's on the people...

usa have like double the deaths per capita than sweden... and i don't have some "orange idol", trump is an idiot... but he's not why it struck usa harder than it struck sweden...

They locked down nursing homes, and their death rate was higher than most of their neighbors

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/lockdown

Are you saying Swedes are better than Americans? That sounds a bit racist.

It's also an issue of population density, which is why many countries/states are relatively unscathed. Most people tend to ignore that aspect, and it may be the most important.

[Machismo]

lol fucking bullshit... japan has like ten times the population density of usa...

The United States did handle it poorly, blame that on the anti-vaxxer Trumpsters.

But, Sweden didn't come out nearly as cleanly as many would have people believe. They have a relatively-low population density, but are several times higher than their neighbors in death rate.

If you don't think that population density has a major impact on the spread of the virus... then you may want to learn how a virus spreads.

In the end, it's simply a combination of population density, availability of healthcare, vaccination rates, social distancing, and the size of primary, secondary, and tertiary interactions.

[Edge-]

japan has 10 times more population density than usa... and fares far better than you did... it's the people, not politicians...

It's both. Or have you missed the number of states that have banned businesses and counties from enacting mask mandates, for example?

[Machismo]

japan has 10 times more population density than usa... and fares far better than you did... it's the people, not politicians...

Yep, and Germany has 10 times the population density of Sweden, and fared better. Are you saying Germans are better than Swedes?

[Edge-]

it's not both

It is, but you can believe whatever fantasy you'd like to.

I mean, remember when we had a POTUS up there talking about how it was nothing? About how it would disappear? About injecting sunlight and bleach?

Sure, people believe what they want at the end of the day, as you're showing, but those beliefs often originate from somewhere else.

[Machismo]

in regards to personal responsibility? yes, they are a lot better at that than swedes... americans on the other hand? a lot worse than both... likely due to the "mah freeeeeeeeeeeeedumbs" mantra...

So, Japanese people are better than Swedes?

The same goes for Finns, and Norwegians? Danes? Costa Ricans? Namibians? Afghanis? and even North Korans?

All of them are better than Swedes? I just want to check and make sure.

[Machismo]

lol, i'm just gonna stop responding to you when you include countries that are manipulating the data...

But, this is literally your argument. I mean, Sweden is in the bottom quartile for death rates. They didn't do that well.

[PhaelixWW]

lol fucking bullshit... japan has like ten times the population density of usa...

Japan is also an island and the people of Japan tend to follow the safety directives of their government far more than most. They also have a history of mask use.

[Breccia]

lol, i'm just gonna stop responding to you when you include countries that are manipulating the data...

Take that up with the Scandanavian Journal of Public Health. I'll let you read the whole thing on your own, but cite these relevant parts here, which basically say "you are wrong'.

Role of government regulations as an early response measure

Using variation in policies and publicly announced cases and mortality data across regions in the United States, Goolsbee and Syverson attributed a large portion of decline in mobility to voluntary stay-at-home decisions based on people’s fear of COVID-19 deaths in their region, with legal restrictions accounting for only ~12% of the mobility decrease. Consistent with this, Andersen et al. found similar reductions in consumer spending in Sweden and Denmark (25% c.f. 29%) despite substantially greater government restraints on economic activity in Denmark. Focusing only on Stockholm county, mobility data indicate a population response to increasing case and mortality counts preceding increasing government restrictions. However, the national analysis we present provides counterevidence as well: Norway, Denmark, and Finland enacted strict and early government regulations prior to observing high case counts or COVID-19 associated deaths and, ultimately, maintained all-cause mortality rates below or equal to the average for the last 5 years. Despite increasing cases and connectivity to global news, mobility data show that the population-based response in Sweden overall was not as strong as its neighbours and did not intensify to their level as the situation worsened. Given that the median time from first symptoms of COVID-19 to death is 14 days, government restrictions can be implemented as a form of early response measure to encourage a stronger shift in population behaviour before a rise in cases and deaths occurs.

Conclusions

Over the first 6 months of the current pandemic, Sweden experienced higher COVID-19 case rates, death rates, and higher all-cause mortality (especially in the Stockholm county epicenter) than its Nordic peer countries. COVID-19 pushed Sweden’s health system to its capacity, exposed systemic vulnerabilities in the seniors’ care system, and revealed challenges with limited testing implementation. Choosing fewer and less intense government restrictions at the beginning of the outbreak likely played a role in the impact of COVID-19 in Sweden, although a connection to international news and rising fear of cases and deaths may have driven Swedish citizens to voluntarily shift to stay-at-home behaviour and reduce their spending. In spite of initial challenges, Sweden was able to adapt with more restrictive mandates, increasing their ICU bed capacity, and shifting their testing strategy. Sweden may provide an example of how an adaptive test-and-learn strategy can be applied to public health decisions made in uncertain times.

And before you voice even a single objection, bear in mind you're not trying to debate me. You're trying to debate this journal. And you won't win.

[Breccia]

i'm wrong that

What part of "you're not trying to debate me" do you not understand? Handwaving a research article like this just makes you look like a disingenuous poster. You're not a disingenuous poster, are you?