Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Paranoid Android]

Haha! This mother bleeping narcissist.

So if Trump was assigned where Biden was he would throw a fit. Oh no, Trump is so alpha that he would have a seat right by the coffin.

[Breccia]

Haha! This mother bleeping narcissist.

Indeed. He just assumes the loss of US standing in the UK's eyes, or at least his perception thereof, was Biden's fault not his.

[postman1782]

Haha! This mother bleeping narcissist.

So if Trump was assigned where Biden was he would throw a fit. Oh no, Trump is so alpha that he would have a seat right by the coffin.

If he was president, he would still never be invited.

[s_bushido]

Haha! This mother bleeping narcissist.

I'm just trying to figure out the "Third World" jab. Does he think the US's standing in the world (or lack thereof) matters in the slightest at the funeral for a ceremonial figurehead of another country?

But I guess he would be confused to learn that not every event is about him and his bigly accomplishments...

[Gorsameth]

yeah I legit wonder if Trump would have even been invited if he were still President.

God now I want to know if Elizabeth left instructions to the tone of 'that orange fuck isn't allowed in'.

[s_bushido]

yeah I legit wonder if Trump would have even been invited if he were still President.

As much of an international embarrassment as he is/was, they would have probably thought it would be too scandalous (for lack of a better word) to snub the US president regardless. Unless he was like...actively supporting Russia's invasion or something. Which, let's be honest, that's not out of the realm of possibility.

[Edge-]

Trump is the only main fucking character in this world, and you Karen's and social media narcissists better look out!

- - - Updated - - -

Two updates -

https://theintercept.com/2022/09/19/...mber-commerce/

REPUBLICANS PLAN TO launch a variety of investigations into the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and many of its largest member corporations if they retake the majority in the House of Representatives this November. The probes, said a GOP member of Congress and multiple Republican operatives who requested anonymity to discuss plans that have yet to be made public, will marry Republicans’ newly formed hostility to the Chamber with the party’s mission to undermine the growth of the ESG investment sector.

Huh...seems like, suddenly, Republicans hate free markets and businesses choosing how they spend and invest their money. I'm thinking Republicans, for all they've said otherwise, don't actually like capitalism.

And part deux - https://apnews.com/article/2022-midt...128761fc7a0a75

County clerks in Oregon are inundated with public records requests stemming from “the big lie” that the 2020 election was stolen, even while they’re already busy preparing for the November election, the secretary of state said Monday.

Secretary of State Shemia Fagan has been visiting Oregon’s 36 counties to speak with county clerks and other elections officials, and said she’s seen the strain imposed by the avalanche of requests, from populous counties around Portland to Lake County, in southern Oregon near the California border, with only 5,590 registered voters.

“In recent weeks, we’ve seen an influx of public records requests still based on the big lie — the big lie is that the 2020 election was stolen,” Fagan said. “The lie is still impacting the operations of our elections workers, nearly two years later.”

Fagan said in a Zoom news conference that as she’s traveled around the state, she’s noticed fatigue among county clerks and other county elections officials.

Cultists in Oregon seem to be trying to intentionally fuck up election operations with bad-faith information requests designed to overwhelm non-partisan election officials. Yes, these are Republicans -

The main “myths” that elections officials in Oregon are confronting are that the 2020 election was stolen, that vote-by-mail elections can’t be trusted, that machine tabulators are fraudulent and that ballot boxes are not secure, said Oregon Elections Director Deborah Scroggin.

Because every one of those is a key component of "the big lie" and Republican talking points. More -

“These are sort of copy-and-paste records request that we’re being flooded with,” she said. Earlier, they focused on forensic audits. These days, there have also been calls for hand-counts, voting system certification and attempts to undermine trust in drop-off ballot boxes.

Indicating that this is an organized effort and that these are very much bad-faith information requests.

Just more reminders about how Republicans are an active threat to our democracy and nation.

[zorkuus]

Haha! This mother bleeping narcissist.

So if Trump was assigned where Biden was he would throw a fit. Oh no, Trump is so alpha that he would have a seat right by the coffin.

I've never seen a grown ass man whine this much like a pussy little bitch. Fucking hell what a loser. And so is everyone who supports that clown.

[Endus]

Haha! This mother bleeping narcissist.

So if Trump was assigned where Biden was he would throw a fit. Oh no, Trump is so alpha that he would have a seat right by the coffin.

Just so we're clear, the world leaders sitting in front of him? Commonwealth countries. She was our Queen. You folks were the ones who cast off the monarchy.

There is no way on God's green Earth Trump would have been sat any closer. There are literally no measures that would have permitted that to occur. He'd have been lucky to get Biden's seat, and might not have been invited at all.

[Fugus]

@Edge-

Question, if they are abusing records requests to try and slow this up, would it be possible for them to just instead post the information in the requests onto a public site for them to just read themselves when they look for it?

I doubt they are asking for different records each and that would allow them to just say "Go to this link and it has all the information you are asking about and if it isn't on there, you can request it but chances are it won't be legal for you to receive anyways."

[Edge-]

https://thehill.com/policy/national-...ago-documents/

Former President Trump’s legal team on Monday night resisted a request to elaborate on his claims around declassifying the documents recovered last month from his Mar-a-Lago home.

In a filing to the court-appointed special master that Trump requested, his attorneys said the “time and place” for making such a disclosure would come in a motion in a criminal trial as an effort to recover his property.

“Otherwise, the Special Master process will have forced the Plaintiff to fully and specifically disclose a defense to the merits of any subsequent indictment without such a requirement being evident in the District Court’s order,” Trump’s legal team wrote.

The resistance comes after Trump’s attorneys insinuated the former president declassified the more than 300 documents recovered from his Florida home but stopped short of fully making the claim in court filings.

“The government’s stance assumes that if a document has a classification marking, it remains classified irrespective of any actions taken during President Trump’s term in office,” Trump’s legal team wrote in a filing last week.

“There is no legitimate contention that the chief executive’s declassification of documents requires approval of bureaucratic components of the executive branch,” they added.

Note: They're still not assertion privilege. They're hinting at privilege hoping that hinting will be enough.

Though on the "hint" that Trump saying documents are declassified means they're declassified regardless of their markings...we know that to be false.

“Plaintiff principally seeks to raise questions about the classification status of the records and their categorization under the Presidential Records Act (‘PRA’). But plaintiff does not actually assert — much less provide any evidence — that any of the seized records bearing classification markings have been declassified,” the Department of Justice (DOJ) wrote.

“Such possibilities should not be given weight absent plaintiff’s putting forward competent evidence,” it added.

Cause DOJ is saying that until Trump tries to assert privilege, he has no argument.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Massachusetts on Monday filed a Freedom of Information Act request seeking the “standing” declassification order that Trump — outside of court filings — has pointed to in explaining the tranche of record in his home.

Which, if the documents were indeed declassified, the government would be obligated to be responsive to. Failure to respond to the FOIA request indicates that, despite Trump's hints and assertions otherwise, he has not declassified the materials and is still not asserting privilege.

[fwc577]

Love how he found a way to make the Queen's death about him.

[zorkuus]

Love how he found a way to make the Queen's death about him.

Nothing is below him. If he was president he would openly support Putler's invasion of Ukraine.

[Breccia]

How to damage your case, part 1.

So the Trump-requested "special master" asked for clarification from Team Trump, namely the issue a lot of people are waiting for: were these documents classified?

Team Trump refused to answer.

Similarly, the Draft Plan requires that the Plaintiff disclose specific information
regarding declassification to the Court and to the Government. We respectfully submit that
the time and place for affidavits or declarations would be in connection with a Rule 41
motion that specifically alleges declassification as a component of its argument for return
of property. Otherwise, the Special Master process will have forced the Plaintiff to fully
and specifically disclose a defense to the merits of any subsequent indictment without such
a requirement being evident in the District Court’s order.

I'm not an expert on Rule 41...more of a Rule 34 guy...but I'm guessing Team Trump is saying "We refuse to answer, because we need to know what crime(s) Trump is charged with, so we can decide if it was classified or not based on which fucks his case the least". They don't want to declare now, because such a declaration under oath would be admissible as evidence.

Can you imagine being this fucked by your own client? These lawyers seem to know full well Trump could be charged with multiple different crimes, possibly (a) he declassified something he wasn't allowed to, such as nuclear secrets, or (b) he put classified info in his unlocked desk drawer.

This, combined with literally asking the judge for more time, is just a stalling tactic. That might work with Cannon...a few more times, she's given Trump so many inches of leeway he could run a marathon...but Dearie does seem a little, erm, "reasonable" on most things and owes Trump zero favors.

"Hey Trump's lawyers, am I supposed to be reading this?"
"We can't tell you."
"I mean, I'm pretty sure even I'm not supposed to handle SCI even under these circumstances. I need to know if this is okay or not."
"Yeah...we need to know too...(sigh)"

Now, all evidence is the answer is "no". To date, there is no evidence Trump either followed the official rules needed to declassify anything, or assert privilege on anything, that was taken. By law, if NARA or the FBI found such, they'd have to admit it as evidence when that issue arises in court -- it's exculpatory. If that's true, Trump's lawyers are playing coy with "maybe it's classified, maybe it isn't, who's to say, what is 'classified' anyhow, aren't we all classified as something, why no Your Honor we're not on drugs yet" sounds a lot like a stalling tactic, it sounds like they're cornered and they know it, and again until Trump says under oath that it's classified the only safe conclusion is "it isn't" because no record of its declassified status is known to exist -- therefore the status quo, "it's classified", must be assumed.

Naturally, every legal expert Trump isn't currently pretending to pay pointed out how stupid this is.

"In Judge Dearie's proposed plan, he wants Trump team to put up or shut up on 'information regarding declassification,'" Katie Barlow, an attorney who hosts In The Courts on Fox affiliate WTTG in Washington, D.C

Not the same thing, I don't get a point for that.

said in a tweet. "Trump continues to say he declassified documents seized at Mar-a-Lago. This would require him to say so on the record under penalty of perjury."

Ryan Goodman, former law professor and Pentagon special counsel, said in a tweet that the filing was "not a good look for Trump's side."

"Trump's team is resisting," he said. "Smells like they want to avoid lying to court. Won't make assertion. Fear of 18 USC 1001?"

Goodman's tweet referenced a federal statute makes it illegal to make false statements to the government, punishable by fines and up to five years' imprisonment.

So what's the next move?

Cannon will almost assuredly give Trump three or four more chances to answer, and Trump will refuse all of them. Dearie will then shrug, as listed above assume they're all still classified, and therefore Trump gets nothing returned -- they're government property, they shouldn't be returned anyhow, but this will be the reason given. Trump will throw a Trumper Tantrum and ask Cannon to reign in the "special master" he not only asked for in the first place, but asked for by name.

And then, and only then, will Cannon finally decide enough is enough. Remember, here is the DOJ's filing:

Plaintiff does not actually assert — much less provide any evidence — that any of the seized records bearing classification markings have been declassified. Such possibilities should not be given weight absent plaintiff’s putting forward competent evidence

If Trump is being asked, point-blank, both by the "special master" but the judge who went out of her way to appoint one, and Team Trump refuses to answer...there doesn't seem to be anything Cannon can do at that point. Except maybe intentionally fuck up so badly the DOJ gets an appeal, so she can be done with this drama forever.

And then, there's Herschmann.

"...who?"

We last heard about him July 13th, basically yelling at Trump when Trump claimed all the judges who ruled against his baseless election claims were corrupt. Yes, including his own.

Well...we're not done with him.

The NYTimes reports Herschmann specifically and directly addressed the issue of Trump stealing government property, with Trump.

A onetime White House lawyer under Trump warned him late last year that Mr. Trump could face legal liability if he did not return government materials he had taken with him when he left office, three people familiar with the matter said.

The lawyer, Eric Herschmann, sought to impress upon Mr. Trump the seriousness of the issue and the potential for investigations and legal exposure if he did not return the documents, particularly any classified material, the people said.

Bear in mind, this discussion would have happened after Trump left office and was unable to change any classification status. Or, you know, invoke new privilege. (There is still no reason to believe he had old privilege -- there's no record of that, therefore, arguing based on that hypothetical will be handwaved)

The precise date of the late 2021 meeting between Mr. Trump and Mr. Herschmann is unclear. It was also unclear what, if any, awareness Mr. Herschmann had of what was in the boxes when the subject was discussed.

But by then, the National Archives had told associates of Mr. Trump that it was missing documents like original copies of his presidential correspondence with the North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un and the letter left for him by President Barack Obama. Archives officials said they had been told by then that there were roughly two dozen boxes of documents that had been in the White House residence and which qualified as presidential records, which had never been sent to the archives.

By the time of the meeting, Mr. Herschmann, a former prosecutor, was not working with or for Mr. Trump, from whom the National Archives had spent months trying to procure missing material.

Mr. Trump thanked Mr. Herschmann for the discussion but was noncommittal about his plans for returning the documents, the people familiar with the conversation said.

The meeting between Mr. Herschmann and Mr. Trump has not been previously reported, and it adds to the picture of Mr. Trump’s interactions with several people about returning the documents in the months before the National Archives retrieved 15 boxes of material in January of this year. When they went through the boxes, officials at the archives discovered that they contained nearly 200 individual classified documents.

It was not immediately clear if the meeting was solely related to the discussion about the documents, or if it was about other issues.

So, under the assumption that this story is true -- the NYTimes is pretty solid on that, plus Herschmann will almost certainly be asked this under oath if he hasn't already -- Trump can no longer blame other people for this. I mean, he can, it's physically possible for him to speak words with some exceptions ("origins"), but it won't work. Once NARA, the DOJ, and some of his own employees all say Trump knew he'd taken things he wasn't allowed to, pleading ignorance (already not a defense for some of the laws cited, you can't even lose these documents by accident and walk free) isn't reasonable.

I guess he could plead that he has dementia, which HAHAHAHAHAHAHA can you imagine if Trump had to admit he was losing his own mind just to stay out of jail? Especially with all the times he bragged about his health and/or memory and had that "doctor" back his play? Man, woman, TV, sex, Rule 34?

But I don't think he'll do that. He has to be seen as an impervious paragon to be worshipped as a god.

Apparently, the classification issue is supposed to be handled by the 7th and Team Trump has already asked for an extension. Honestly, Cannon will probably give them one. But there's still two overhanging features that could come into play at any time:

One, the fact that the DOJ already has him objectively guilty on stealing items he wasn't allowed to take. They can basically arrest him whenever they feel like it.

Two, that the second Trump announces he's running for office to defend himself against these charges, very likely emptying his investigated PAC into his legal defense fund and therefore not giving any to Republicans like he promised, he loses all remaining GOP support and a lot of Party of Trump support, because they don't love him, they love his money and his voters, and Trump will start costing them both. The GOP tears itself into pieces while @Skroe and @GennGreymane eat popcorn and watch, the classic Republicans decide that defending Trump from investigations isn't really all that important to them, and President Harris gets at least a blue House and/or Senate to work with as the split tickets H.Ross Perot the orange and red out of first place in too many seats.

[Flarelaine]

Haha! This mother bleeping narcissist.

So if Trump was assigned where Biden was he would throw a fit. Oh no, Trump is so alpha that he would have a seat right by the coffin.

... even though those seats were for the family.

[Breccia]

... even though those seats were for the family.

Actually, Trump could have been invited regardless. He wasn't. Kind of conflicts with the narrative he's trying to spin about how the UK loved him so much.

Boris Johnson was invited, tho.

[Flarelaine]

Actually, Trump could have been invited regardless. He wasn't. Kind of conflicts with the narrative he's trying to spin about how the UK loved him so much.

Boris Johnson was invited, tho.

All former Prime Ministers were, so nothing special there.

Side note: A commentator in the stream mentioned that her first Prime Minister (Churchill) was 101 years older than her last (Truss). Mindboggling.

[Breccia]

In the ongoing effort to prove he is a loathsome sentient life form, Trump calls out the GA DA by suggesting she sleeps all the time.

Based on...something...I guess?

He was, of course, talking about the phone call in which he demanded Raffensperger find more votes.

He claimed that those on the call “had no problems with the call, and didn’t voice any objections or complaints about anything that I said on the call which could be construed as inappropriate.”

Um...that's the opposite of what's true. Raffensperger did have a problem and did raise objections. Now, Trump might be suggesting that nobody said anything during the call itself. Of course, we have the transcript so...yeah.

I suspect Trump is raging about it recently because it came up recently. I think there was a court development that Trump doesn't like. Wonder what it is.

[Paranoid Android]

Videos show allies of Donald Trump and contractors who were working on his behalf handling sensitive voting equipment in a Georgia county weeks after the 2020 election. It was not immediately clear what, if anything, was done with any data.

So this is new evidence of them actually inside the office of where the machines were handled (video in link). First it was reported that they were just outside of the office and not in the room. One person said it was only minutes but now this new video shows it was hour(s).

In the CNN link they lead off that "spent hours inside the restricted area. The same day a voting system was breached". So none of this hard evidence of them breaking into and manipulating the machines just yet. There is now evidence of the lie of time spent and them having access to a restricted area that they should not have.

[Breccia]

In the CNN link they lead off that "spent hours inside the restricted area. The same day a voting system was breached".

Let me make this clear: unless it turns out this was a secret but sanctified, official exam -- I feel it's safe to say it wasn't -- then there is no defense for this behavior. Even "We were looking for fraud but found none" is not an acceptable defense. Incidentally, I think this is what happened. I think some cultists were so divorced from reality that they actually believed Trump won because he said so, and went looking for fraud, and either found nothing or actually found proof there was no fraud. Either way, they broke in and hacked an election machine. You don't get to do that without going to jail, regardless of your intentions.

Those machines should be replaced. They were probably going to do that anyhow. If the people in the video are caught, they should also bear the cost of that replacement. I don't think they will, I think voting machines are probably surprisingly expensive, but let them declare bankruptcy on the way to jail. I hear it's about to be very popular with cultists...