Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[PACOX]

Why is Trump watching Fox News and tweeting like he doesn't have a country to run?

[Dontrike]

Why is Trump watching Fox News and tweeting like he doesn't have a country to run?

We've been asking that question for almost two years now. In fact, many of his tweets are coming from what other people say, especially Fox and Hannity. I know that's nothing new, but it seems higher than usual.

[Fugus]

And the fact that New York and Illinois are both prepared to bring state charges against Manafort in the case of a pardon. Trump pardoning Manafort would be a clear abuse of power, make Manafort a star witness with no choice, and Manafort would still eventually die in jail when the other states brought charges.

At this point, part of me wonders if Trump would pardon him and then run interference for him while he fled the country *To Russia* before he could be arrested on the new charges.

Then if that actually happened, part of me wonders just how much harder would the Republican's continue to protect him. Probably a lot because it seems more and more likely that a huge portion of them can be brought down on similar charges.

[Bullettime]

At this point, part of me wonders if Trump would pardon him and then run interference for him while he fled the country *To Russia* before he could be arrested on the new charges.

Then if that actually happened, part of me wonders just how much harder would the Republican's continue to protect him. Probably a lot because it seems more and more likely that a huge portion of them can be brought down on similar charges.

Manafort is someone who is now globally tainted and is no good to his previous Russian overlords. He's more likely to end up dead as a loose end than anything. That's why he's stalling so much. Manafort is literally fucked so badly now that he's finally caught that he has no good option. He lives in fear the rest of his life or rots in jail.

Is he a flight risk though? Yes, absolutely. He would try to flee. But he would be hunted for the rest of his life by both Putin and the US. Trump's actions allowing that to happen though will be plastered everywhere, used against the GOP in the midterms and 2020 (House in midterms, Senate for grabs in 2020,) Trump would be even more of a lame duck president, and he would sever what loose ties he still has with the party over pardoning Manafort at all, whether over bank fraud or the September case of conspiracy, money laundering, etc.

In short, Trump pardoning Manafort would be the effective end of his presidency.

[Themius]

And the fact that New York and Illinois are both prepared to bring state charges against Manafort in the case of a pardon. Trump pardoning Manafort would be a clear abuse of power, make Manafort a star witness with no choice, and Manafort would still eventually die in jail when the other states brought charges.

I just love how absolutely screwed he is.

[Fugus]

Manafort is someone who is now globally tainted and is no good to his previous Russian overlords. He's more likely to end up dead as a loose end than anything. That's why he's stalling so much. Manafort is literally fucked so badly now that he's finally caught that he has no good option. He lives in fear the rest of his life or rots in jail.

Is he a flight risk though? Yes, absolutely. He would try to flee. But he would be hunted for the rest of his life by both Putin and the US. Trump's actions allowing that to happen though will be plastered everywhere, used against the GOP in the midterms and 2020 (House in midterms, Senate for grabs in 2020,) Trump would be even more of a lame duck president, and he would sever what loose ties he still has with the party over pardoning Manafort at all, whether over bank fraud or the September case of conspiracy, money laundering, etc.

In short, Trump pardoning Manafort would be the effective end of his presidency.

True, but Trump isn't smart enough to see that and those actions would still cause a LOT of chaos in America and further undermine us internationally. So taking him in and being that obvious about it only to watch Trump still try and protect him and the Republicans still try and protect Trump. We know Trump would take that bait, but would Putin do it just to watch the chaos that ensues?

Edit: And the Republicans, the question is how far are they trying to take it protecting him.

[Deleted]

Um...a pardon before a verdict strikes me as a very poor idea. And it might be impossible.

nah if its a hung jury the pardon comes before the case is tried again.

its all in thier hands now.

'Jury in Manafort case sends note asking for legal definitions on filing requirements for overseas accounts, also for clarification on 'reasonable doubt.'

no slam dunks yet. hopefully they get the bastard, im always skeptical of white collar cunts being held to account for anything, especially sleazy connected lobbyists.

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Not only that, wouldn't a pardon also be an automatic admission of guilt? And wouldn't that put all the evidence they have against him in play for future trials?

Honest question, wouldn't him pardoning Manafort further put the noose around his own neck with that automatic admission of guilt along with the optics for the whole thing? And is all the manafort stuff stuff that Trump can pardon? Is any of it local charges that Trump can't touch?

'There is simply no constitutional or legal basis for the claim that presidential pardons are an admission of guilt. Pardons do not require an admission of guilt, and any requirement of such is at the sole discretion of the president, and any imputation of such is at the discretion of the individual, and carries zero legal weight.'

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second day of deliberations with no verdict, looks like there is a hold out

the prosecution really needed to make it as simple as possible, less is more, so that the jury didnt get confused with the technical nature of white collar crime.

If they come to a compromise and manafort is found guilty of some charges and aquitted of others any felony count still results in the judge considering all of Manafort’s conduct at sentencing, including conduct he is acquitted of.

[D Luniz]

True, but Trump isn't smart enough to see that and those actions would still cause a LOT of chaos in America and further undermine us internationally. So taking him in and being that obvious about it only to watch Trump still try and protect him and the Republicans still try and protect Trump. We know Trump would take that bait, but would Putin do it just to watch the chaos that ensues?

Edit: And the Republicans, the question is how far are they trying to take it protecting him.

And that's the scary part in all this, almost all of the democracies that fell to authoritarianism elected the guy. So if the GOP are willing to let anything go to get their "wins", well, I wonder what "Coalition of the Willing" will be stomping through this nation in 20 years

[Fugus]

There is simply no constitutional or legal basis for the claim that presidential pardons are an admission of guilt. Pardons do not require an admission of guilt, and any requirement of such is at the sole discretion of the president, and any imputation of such is at the discretion of the individual, and carries zero legal weight.'

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second day of deliberations with no verdict, looks like there is a hold out

the prosecution really needed to make it as simple as possible, less is more, so that the jury didnt get confused with the technical nature of white collar crime.

If they come to a compromise and manafort is found guilty of some charges and aquitted of others any felony count still results in the judge considering all of Manafort’s conduct at sentencing, including conduct he is acquitted of.

Thanks for the info.

For the deliberations, wondering what the hold out is over.

Given all the evidence, you would think it is a slam dunk. REALLY hope they don't have a compromised Juror.

[Breccia]

REALLY hope they don't have a compromised Juror.

I dunno, he's already been caught threatening a witness. Being caught compromising a juror isn't something Manafort could have done alone. If his team is caught doing this, the charges get worse, not better.

[Fugus]

I dunno, he's already been caught threatening a witness. Being caught compromising a juror isn't something Manafort could have done alone. If his team is caught doing this, the charges get worse, not better.

Yeah, that is only if he is gets caught though.

Doesn't have to be Manafort to do it, could be Trumps people, could be the foreign people he worked with. They should have sequestered the jurors for this honestly. They had to know this was a major, high profile case and they already had a case of attempted witness tampering as well.

[Edge-]

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/trum...hael-williams/

In a CNN interview with Blackwell (who is Black), Williams was asked by Blackwell if it would matter to him if President Trump had said the N-word, as accused recently by former White House aide Omarosa Manigault-Newman.

“Yes, it would matter. It would matter as an individual,” Williams said. “It would not necessarily matter to me as the person that is running our country.”

@Dacien isn't this the almost exact stance you've repeatedly taken?

[Dacien]

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/trum...hael-williams/


@Dacien isn't this the almost exact stance you've repeatedly taken?

Well, there are lines of demarcation between insensitive, and outright racist. If Trump were using racially insensitive language but none of his policies were specifically and unnecessarily targeted at minorities, I have to take that along those lines that Williams is describing. Using the N-word is a completely different ballgame. As long as we're talking about in a derogatory context (It's much less serious if, for example, Trump said, "I would never call anybody a n-----". That's stupid to say the word, but it's not at all the same as saying it derogatorily), I would view that as a very serious concern.

Because at that point it would throw into question whether he truly has every American's best interests in mind. Even if none of his policies reflected that, it wouldn't be misguided to question if it's just a matter of time. I would certainly condemn it unequivocally.

But here's where I might get into hot water: I'd still argue that there was no criminal collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, for example. I wouldn't suddenly believe that his campaign was guilty because of unrelated racism. And all the other things I believe to be true would not suddenly become false. But since using the N-word derogatorily is so far beyond acceptable, I'd probably limit my discussion of those "good things" I think Trump is doing. I'd probably just wait for him to wither away and vote different in 2020.

[DarkTZeratul]

Because at that point it would throw into question whether he truly has every American's best interests in mind.

It is mind-boggling that none of his actions up until this point have thrown that into question already. At the very least it's blatantly obvious that he gives less than a fuck about the interests of those Americans who oppose him.

[Dontrike]

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/trum...hael-williams/


@Dacien isn't this the almost exact stance you've repeatedly taken?

More like @PrimaryColor

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Because at that point it would throw into question whether he truly has every American's best interests in mind

Using that word would put that into question? You'd have to be last in the race to not see he doesn't care about anyone but himself. Him getting millions by vacationing and golfing should have already done that for you by the end of last year, but no the N word is what pushes you over the edge. Really?

[Themius]

Anyone remember this, only the best people:

[Breccia]

Trump tries to defend meeting with Russia and North Korea:

“I’ve said for a long time, if you’re president, you should meet with foreign leaders. You have nothing to lose and you have a lot to gain. Nothing bad can happen, it's only going to be positive, especially if your president knows what he's doing."

It was on Twitter, because of course it was. Not even FOX News would let him say this and get away with it.

Let's count 'em down.

1) First and most obviously, he is trying to defend meeting with Putin and Kim "Not King Kong" Un, that have made even his rabid fanbase a little nervous. You don't spend time justifying something everyone agrees was the right move. You don't need to sell that or spin that.
2) Apparently, "a long time" is August 30, 2017.
3) "Nothing to lose" and "nothing bad can happen" is...well...just false. Trump legitimized North Korea's dictatorship by shaking Kim's hand as equals on the world stage, allowing that moment to be used as propaganda. (Clinton, in 2007, said she would not meet for exactly this reason).
4) Also, Trump canceled military exercises in exchange for...nothing.
5) Another "something bad did happen" was Trump said, again, that Putin said he didn't attack the election, and that Trump believed him.
6) While not directly referenced in the video, Trump used similar language to his joint press conference with Italy last month when he said he'd meed with Iran with no preconditions. Pompeo disagrees.
7) And, of course, Trump doesn't know what he's doing. That's why both meetings went spectacularly poorly for him.

[PACOX]

Anybody else had grandparents who called the comics in the Sunday newspaper "The Funnies"? Anyway, newspapers are gone but we have something just as entertaining! Good Ole Trump on Trump^² (because these are just Trump projecting himself onto others instead of contradicting himself...get it?):

Donald J. Trump


@realDonaldTrump
No Collusion and No Obstruction, except by Crooked Hillary and the Democrats. All of the resignations and corruption, yet heavily conflicted Bob Mueller refuses to even look in that direction. What about the Brennan, Comey, McCabe, Strzok lies to Congress, or Crooked’s Emails!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...776984576?s=20

[Dontrike]

Anybody else had grandparents who called the comics in the Sunday newspaper "The Funnies"? Anyway, newspapers are gone but we have something just as entertaining! Good Ole Trump on Trump^² (because these are just Trump projecting himself onto others instead of contradicting himself...get it?):



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...776984576?s=20

What resignations is he talking about? Does he mean Republicans, because aren't there dozens of them not running this year?

[Cthulhu 2020]

Anybody else had grandparents who called the comics in the Sunday newspaper "The Funnies"? Anyway, newspapers are gone but we have something just as entertaining! Good Ole Trump on Trump^² (because these are just Trump projecting himself onto others instead of contradicting himself...get it?):



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...776984576?s=20

Two years later and he's still using "BUT HER EMAILS!" My avatar/forum name will only change once it's no longer made relevant by Trump and his parade of deplorables.