Giuliani claims, back when he was a prosecutor "and when we used to obey the Constitution" (eyeroll) that lawyer-client documents would never be seized.
I...think we all know that's false. @cubby has spoken on the matter. Recently.
But even if we didn't have our own live-in expert, there's always this justice.gov website which details how that shit works. I'll give you a hint: it doesn't say "No you can't". And it was last updated 2016, so, before Giuliani represented the Resident.
Man, it would be a shame if it turned out Giuliani was actually quite familiar with the process, wouldn't it?
And just to be clear:The 1983 subpoena now before us was served on Proskauer, the law firm that had represented AG during the litigation over the 1982 subpoena. The 1983 subpoena required production of all documents relating to the sale of International by AG, as part of the grand jury's investigation into a possible obstruction of justice by AG, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1503 (1982), or conspiracy to defraud the United States, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 371 (1982). Proskauer moved to quash on the grounds that the documents in question are protected either by the privilege for attorney's work-product or by the privilege for attorney-client communications. AG intervened and joined in Proskauer's motion to quash.
In an oral decision delivered on November 3, 1983, the district court denied the motion in part, ordering the production of documents relating to the sale of International, documents relating to a possible reorganization of the Marc Rich companies, and documents relating to possible forms of employee compensation for AG employees. Although the November 3 transcript is far from clear, it appears that the court ruled that all of these documents were unprivileged because they conveyed business rather than legal advice. It appears that the court also found certain of these documents unprivileged because their contents would subsequently be disclosed to AG employees. As to documents dated prior to July 7, 1983, and involving advice concerning the sale of International, the court also appears to have held that the documents were unprivileged because they related to advice rendered in furtherance of a future or continuing crime or fraud and hence lost any right to protection under the attorney-client privilege.
Even if Giuliani did not argue the case personally, it clearly was allowed while he was a prosecutor.Opinion
Martin J. Auerbach, Asst. U.S. Atty., New York City (Rudolph W. Giuliani, U.S. Atty., Gerard E. Lynch, Sp. Asst. U.S. Atty., New York City), for defendant-appellee.
Obviously these cases aren't the same, and as we've seen before, there's a separate, special office the DA is supposed to call, whose job it is to look through potentially privileged stuff and say "Here's the stuff you're allowed to have". (That official title eludes me, and I did look, just not hard enough I guess) For Giuliani to say either "I never did this" or "this isn't Constitutional" is a leaking-face lie.
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I mean, real journalists offer retractions. I'm not one, but I'm also trying not to be a hypocrite, either. It's a lot better for me to say "whoops" than to say "well, technically they were vaccinated because they got their first shot, and some of them got this type of vaccine, and Jupiter was in retrograde, plus Blizzard doesn't really hate melee"
Again, though, writer i think is important here is that he’s effectively de-platformed.
Trump’s cultists are going to be Trump’s cultists, that much is abundantly clear right now. But actual, legal measures that have real world consequences? Those deal a tremendous blow to the Trump machine. While obviously not a “legal charge,” trump being blocked from Twitter has done a tremendous amount to shutter him from disseminating misinformation to the American people.
Placing him in legal peril, no matter how much the trumpkins say it’s rigged, is 1) right to simply see justice done and 2) probably a very good way of preventing him from mastering a narrative and attracting new followers.
If half of Trump’s future headlines are about his legal and financial troubles unfolding in the court of law, it’ll be much harder for him to peddle his snake oil or for the GOP to sing his praises, which they’ve basically gone all in on at this point. It’d be a huge liability in 2022 and 2024.
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
Words to live by.
I like the word "effectively".
The demonstration of how badly losing Twitter hurts, is the attempts we've seen by Trump to get a message out anyhow. He got a FOX News interview or two, and I can't help but notice "THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN!" didn't come up. His office has bee putting out statements, but his followers don't even know where to find them and there's the obvious joke that some of them can't read. Some Republican get-togethers have happened, and while they bring members of the rabid fanbase, they haven't brought Trump himself. And when was his last pep rally? I liked those. I would make out with Graham's wife under the bleachers.
Failed businessman that he was/is/will be (looking forward to Trump moving out of Deutsche Bank Tower) Trump knew what Twitter was: an almost uncensored source of limitless free advertising he could literally and figuratively crap out. Actual advertisements cost money, which Trump doesn't have (he could fleece his followers, but then they have to be political ads, and there are rules for those). Interviews are free, but if he goes off the rails the start getting taped and edited. He might get invited to later rallies, or rallies in smaller elections, but Trump has nothing big where he's the reason for the rally. Reality TV is done with him. And it's not like that media network his fans thought he'd make is going anywhere.
Don't worry, rabid fanbase. I think Court TV is still on -- you'll see him soon enough.
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We are not a party that is led by just one person
-- Collins
Prove it
-- Breccia
“There you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles to blood stained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns.”
Looks like somebody went to Jared!
...the police!
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Party of Trump lawmakers express outrage that Biden halted Wall construction, claiming this is illegal because they appropriated $1.4 billion for it.
"Oh, so they also expressed outrage when Trump moved money from other military projects to pay for the Wall in the first place, right after the Trump Shutdown, which cost well over $1.4 billion?"
I mean, maybe one or two did? I'll let the Trump supporters in the readerbase find them for me. Until that happens, I will just assume the answer is "no, they were hypocrites".
Also these same lawmakers claimed Biden's halting of Wall construction led to the surge at the border.
"So, Biden was supposed to complete hundreds of miles of Wall in not quite four months, while Trump built a dozen miles or so in four years?"
That's what they're going with. See, apparently, when Trump left the White House having only Executive Time, er, Executive Orders to show for it, the Party of Trump just assumed the Constitution required Biden to follow through and much much better, because Mr. Only I Can Fix It only did 1% of the work despite being Mr. Nobody Builds Better Walls Believe Me.
"By that same logic, Biden should have executed over 500 children by now and cheated on his wife several thousand times."
Yep, probably.
"He also should have pardoned enough people to fill a sold-out Eagles-Giants game, played over 10,000 rounds of golf, and openly praised Nazis literally every say so far."
Looks like.
"And --"
Okay we get the point. Everyone knew Biden wouldn't continue Trump's mid-to-high crazyfied policies, just like everyone knew Trump wouldn't follow Obama's policies, and yet Trump supporters didn't blame Trump when that didn't magically happen by May 2, 2017. As always, this is pure hypocrisy.
"Is there any merit to 'Biden caused the border surge'?"
I mean, by virtue of not following Trump's policies, yes. If a heart surgeon said "Here Breccia, take these surgical tools and close for me, I'm leaving the heart surgery early" you could make the point that I killed the patient, but let's be honest, what chance did I have? And besides, if that were the case, Biden should immediately get credit for all the businesses reopening due to the expansion of vaccinations.
"Biden follows science and signed a bill to help with that. He should get at least some credit."
Well, wake me when the GOP members who blame Biden for the border surge say that. Again, I'll let the Trump supporters in the audience give me exact names and dates. Until then, I won't hold my breath.
https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1388111012008706057
I'm loving the implosion of the Republican party that's going on right now. Cruz just out there, admitting that he's little more than a corporate mercenary and not a champion of the people.
I hope he's being honest (lol) about not taking their money, too.
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. --Frank Wilhoit
Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi
And because Giuliani was the U.S. Attorney at the time, he would have been fully briefed by his own team as well as the DoJ staff attorneys, because of the highly unusual factors of that case (and in every case in which attorney files are seized). The fact that he said what he did recently means either he's running his usual lying con game or he has forgotten. If he's legitimately forgotten, then his mental state is in question, and that is, as they say, sauce for the goose, Saavik.
Well, we know which it is. Lying to the American people about being the phony victim of a nonexistant crime, is not a crime. Lying on court documents is. So, the move here is to confront him on exactly this statement, under oath. Force him to pick either admit he lied to the American people, or, allow him to avoid the issue by admitting he forgot -- and like you said, ther goes that legal license -- or, allow him to perjure himself. You saw what I found in 5 minutes. NY has a lot of his court cases.
Lol, indeed. I cannot wait to see Rudi on the stand. And that's the best case scenario for him regarding our entertainment value - the other choice is flipping on Trump, and that would be worth not seeing Rudi on the stand.
Like I've said before, I would volunteer to be a fucking errand boy to be on the DoJ team that's working this case against Rudi. Of course, I'm the guy that will read the entire Mueller report's founding documents, once they are released/declassified. I nerd out over law (and space).
Last edited by cubby; 2021-05-03 at 04:01 AM.
Whenever I try and think about what would it take to pull those 70 something million resolute Trump cultists back from the depths of insanity, I get quite concerned.
There's no rhetorical trick, no fact, no evidence, no public admission, no principle, nothing that could be used to bridge that bottomless gap that has formed between the American right and reality as a whole.
They have one higher unifying purpose, that doesn't really seem to go beyond hating minorities, normies and liberals.
If Biden or any Democrat or a liberal or a normie would go on Fox News tomorrow and make a brief statement, saying "The sky is blue", 70 million people would spend the next month shrieking about Chemtrails and communists and Jews painting the sky blue and making the frogs trans or something.
How do you communicate with that?
The Lincoln Project teabags Trump's corpse.
Trump shambles the rooms of Mar-a-Lago, mascara running, pleading to the "rallies" of six or seven people that...
Look, I can at least understand the lie that they'll find thousands of votes in Arizona. There's a "recount: there being done by a heavily biased source with no oversight. But Pennsylvania? New Hampshire? There's no recount effort in those other states.