The Brexit aftermath thread

[Fuiking]

I chuckled at this far too much. Honestly not being able to take advantage of Spoon's seriously cheap beer without putting money in the Brexit pocket has been an unfortunate drawback personally.

£2.15 for a pint of Golden Fleece? Daylight robbery.

Also as it got brought up above, the choice between potential gammon riots and the very real scenario of lacking enough medical supplies (both imported and also exported to the rest of Europe) as well as shortages of food and drink (which you know will be further exasperated by panic stockpiling in the shops) should there be no further extensions before a deal can be struck that will pass the Commons.

I'd take revocation any day, I don't even see how that would be a question.

lemme anwser that with: Leave MEANS Leave! hurrrrrrrrr durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Gotta love how Johnson wanted to yeet himself out of the EU. And how voters actually agree with him.

[Slant]

With respect to the NI issue I guess the theoretical best way would be for the rest of planet earth to shut up and sit down while the people of Northern Ireland decide what they want, but there is the teeny tiny chance that the decision will not be unanimous.

Until then I still think the best way forward is to let them be in both the SM and the UK.

We would shut up, if it hadn't such a dramatic effect on one of our member states.

[Skroe]

Man, people are smoking something real good in Commons.

It's hilarious they talk about the UK playing a - and I quote - "vital role" in issues ranging from fires in the Amazon to the situation in Kashmir, when the twenty five people who are still employed by the post-Austerity Diplomatic Service are a single issue office: Brexit.

I have zero confidence that this impasse will be democratically resolved, either through parliament, a second people's vote or through a general election. And this is why referendums are terrible ideas and should never be done.

The EU needs to focus on protecting itself and let the UK fall out hard. I say if the UK commits to a second referendum, give them the time they need to do it. Otherwise, let them hard Brexit out by the end of the year.

[Slant]

We're still in the EU, they're getting absolutely nothing they wanted.

So far, so good. How much money are you willing to bet you can say that in 2 months from now? Some rumours say JRM has earned quite a few millions while this has been going on. The same goes for the other Brexiteer leaders. I mean, why do people think there has to be a bigger reason than money? They already have a hefty cut of the cake. Anything they get now is really just a bonus at this stage. And the longer they drag on/and the worse they can make the outcome, the more money flows their way.

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I'd take revocation any day, I don't even see how that would be a question.

So would most people on this forum. Alas, it does not seem likely. So, what happens if the Commons implement a law that makes the UK leaving without a deal an impossibility? What is the actual effect of that?

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The EU needs to focus on protecting itself and let the UK fall out hard. I say if the UK commits to a second referendum, give them the time they need to do it. Otherwise, let them hard Brexit out by the end of the year.

Fun fact: The extension they are currently in is the one where they were supposed to have either a referendum or general election. They got less than 2 months left. Achievements so far (with regards to an actual resolution to Brexit either way): None.

[Northern Goblin]

lemme anwser that with: Leave MEANS Leave! hurrrrrrrrr durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Gotta love how Johnson wanted to yeet himself out of the EU. And how voters actually agree with him.

Well they got their A50 triggering, and we've so far spent 3 years of legislative time on it, so if we end up between choosing a lack of food, lack of water, lack of medication and a return of Irish terrorism vs upsetting people that would seemingly be ok with that happening, I can sleep easy at night.

However, we are still in a negotiation period and from the sounds of one Belgium MEP:

Belgian MEP Philippe Lamberts is on the European Parliament's Brexit steering group.

He tells The World at One that he does not believe the EU would refuse an extension to Article 50, despite some claims to the contrary.

"I do not believe that the [EU]27 would take responsibility for pulling the plug and thereby provoking no-deal Brexit at this point in time.

"I think this will not happen so whatever British government comes back with a request for an extension, it will be granted."

He also had some choice quotes for Boris Johnson's "window dressing"

For anyone wanting the full interview, it's from BBC R4's "World at one" program.

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So would most people on this forum. Alas, it does not seem likely. So, what happens if the Commons implement a law that makes the UK leaving without a deal an impossibility? What is the actual effect of that?

So long as other avenues continue to exist, revocation won't be looked at. It's the trump card, the nuclear option, the move you make when you have absolutely no other moves left other than no deal.

I know we want to fast forward and get to that point, but there is still so much on the table that most MPs will look to exhaust other options first rather than take such an extreme action prematurely.

[Mormolyce]

I keep thinking about how Stewart Lee was proven 100% right:

“The secret Tory steering committee has always intended Boris Johnson to be leader of the party and Theresa May has only been put in place as a kind of palate cleanser, a nasty-tasting mouthwash that you swill around your gums before being forced to eat actual human shit.”

LOL he's written an article about it:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...on-stewart-lee

Not touch and go but in the bag (along with non payment of £30bn) to the EU...Donald Trump predicts 'very big' post-Brexit deal with UK will be done 'pretty quickly'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...p-time-PM.html

LOL, this talking point is especially hilarious. "Good news everyone, I've spoken to the buzzards and they've told me they just can't wait to start pecking out our eyeballs!".

I bet Trump is eager to sign a deal. And he'd just love to renegotiate with a UK that's now isolated and has an order of magnitude less bargaining power, led by a group of chucklefucks who can't even negotiate a deal in their own party.

Bet he's going to give you lots of juicy concessions so Britain winds up getting a better deal at America's expense. Because he's such a generous guy. And Trump is notoriously lax on trade and puts his allies ahead of America.

I can only imagine the kind of concussion that would make this line of thinking sound reasonable.

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Fuck no to extensions. Britain needs to get out, spend a decade thinking on what they did, then reapply and join as regular member with zero special treatment.

I still don't know why the EU granted the last extension.

[Fuiking]

I keep thinking about how Stewart Lee was proven 100% right:



LOL he's written an article about it:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...on-stewart-lee



LOL, this talking point is especially hilarious. "Good news everyone, I've spoken to the buzzards and they've told me they just can't wait to start pecking out our eyeballs!".

I bet Trump is eager to sign a deal. And he'd just love to renegotiate with a UK that's now isolated and has an order of magnitude less bargaining power, led by a group of chucklefucks who can't even negotiate a deal in their own party.

Bet he's going to give you lots of juicy concessions so Britain winds up getting a better deal at America's expense. Because he's such a generous guy. And Trump is notoriously lax on trade and puts his allies ahead of America.

I can only imagine the kind of concussion that would make this line of thinking sound reasonable.

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I still don't know why the EU granted the last extension.

They had a plan.. May had one, but there were a few hurdles she had to take first.. hence the extension

[Northern Goblin]

They had a plan.. May had one, but there were a few hurdles she had to take first.. hence the extension

Calling what May had a plan, is an insult to plans everywhere, even Baldrick had a better plan.

[Slant]

So long as other avenues continue to exist, revocation won't be looked at. It's the trump card, the nuclear option, the move you make when you have absolutely no other moves left other than no deal.

I know we want to fast forward and get to that point, but there is still so much on the table that most MPs will look to exhaust other options first rather than take such an extreme action prematurely.

Ok, let's play pretend: Assume the EU is not going to grant another extension. What are the options you would have now that you could implement unilaterally to avert no deal?

[Jessicka]

Ok, let's play pretend: Assume the EU is not going to grant another extension. What are the options you would have now that you could implement unilaterally to avert no deal?

Revoke A50.

[Slant]

Revoke A50.

Let's not talk about the nuclear option, because that ends the discussion rather quickly. What else?

[Jessicka]

Let's not talk about the nuclear option, because that ends the discussion rather quickly. What else?

Having the nuclear option is exactly what leads us to look for alternative paths. It can’t just be hand waved away.

Between that and the Good Friday Agreement, there’s no way the EU would ever not grant an extension.

[Pann]

Boris tells any Con MPs thinking of defying the whip "Come at me!"

[Slant]

Having the nuclear option is exactly what leads us to look for alternative paths. It can’t just be hand waved away.

Between that and the Good Friday Agreement, there’s no way the EU would ever not grant an extension.

You're once more gambling on something the EU will or will not do. That's not what I'm asking about. What can the UK do, unilaterally, to prevent no deal that isn't revoking A50?

[Pann]

Honestly I think the EU will grant an extension in the end purely to avoid any blame for Brexit.

Belgian MEP Philippe Lamberts is on the European Parliament's Brexit steering group.

He tells The World at One that he does not believe the EU would refuse an extension to Article 50, despite some claims to the contrary.

"I do not believe that the [EU]27 would take responsibility for pulling the plug and thereby provoking no-deal Brexit at this point in time.

"I think this will not happen so whatever British government comes back with a request for an extension, it will be granted."

[caervek]

If this is the case then why is the Brexit Party a thing?

Because the won't let Farage back in the conservative party and he needs to keep his brand relevant. Plus if we actually leave the EU then the gravy train he's been sleeping on for the majority of his adult life will evaporate and he will need money.

Why is Johnson is staking his government on this very policy?

Because he doesn't have a choice, he's painted himself into a corner and has no choice.

why aren't the opposition parties falling over themselves to give him his election that is doomed to failure?

Because they can see straight through his trick (it's not particularly clever) and know that if they agree to let him choose a date for an election then he will set it so the Brexit deadline expires while parliament is shut down for the election and any hope to stop a no deal Brexit will be lost. Hence why they are all in favour of an election, they just want him to seek an extension first to derail his plan.

Don't get me wrong, Johnson's ultimate aim is to get a deal

It absolutely is not, that's the last thing he wants hence why he isn't even attempting to get one and is set on forcing a no deal exit through. Remember above where I explained that he doesn't really have a choice with many of his actions and has painted himself into a corner? I will explain the situation he's in fully so it's easy to understand:

In the run up to the referendum nobody in politics expected Leave to have a chance because they already knew how public opinion lay on the matter, as a result the top Leave campaign figures were not genuine Leave supporters but rather an ensemble of politicians who knew that leading a losing battle would do more for their brand/name recognition/public image than being a small cog in a remain victory would. As a result of this you got people like Gove, Boris, etc who wanted to boost their stock with Tory Euro-sceptics in order to one day have the clout to make a run at party leadership, and you had career EU sponges like Farage who's income depends on being anti EU in order to get money from the EU. As a result of this they all tried to outdo each other by promising voters ever increasing benefits for leaving the EU.

Then it happened, judgement day. It turned out that a lot more people than they expected fell for their guff and to make matters worse because the Remain campaign highlighted there only being one sane option a significant amount of remain supporters didn't even bother voting on what they perceived to be a no brainer thus heavily skewing the turnout. Those two combined lead to a narrow Leave victory and some very forlorn/sombre Brexiteers trying to fake ecstasy (the emotion not the drug).

This put them in an impossible position, there was no deal the UK could ever negotiate that would come close to what they had promised people, which meant there was no deal they could ever back without destroying the very careers they had got into this mess to boost. In addition there was no way they could support a second/conformation referendum as they knew it would result in a remain victory and again career death.

This is where we are today, Boris only has one option/choice before him to keep his career alive, he has to thunder ahead in an attempt to force through no deal (as he has been, ignoring EU negotiations, suspending parliament, etc) and hope that either it works (at which point he can say he wanted to get a deal but parliament/the EU/the deceptions ruined it), or that anti-no deal MPs manage to stop him in which case he can say the same thing.

[Jessicka]

You're once more gambling on something the EU will or will not do. That's not what I'm asking about. What can the UK do, unilaterally, to prevent no deal that isn't revoking A50?

Rely on the fact that calmer heads will prevail and it will never come to that.

You really think the EU will throw Ireland under a bus?

[Pann]

Oh dear!

Mark Burns-Williamson, the West Yorkshire Police and Crime Commissioner, has told BBC News that Boris Johnson has "abused" the position of the force by making a speech in front of rows of trainee police officers.

Mr Burns-Williamson, who's a Labour politician, said: "These officers shouldn't have been used.

"It was clearly a political speech about Brexit and issues surrounding the General Election. He's abused their position."

The PCC said although he knew about the prime minister's visit he wasn't consulted about it or aware of the details and did not attend.

Mr Burns-Williamson said he had sent a message to the Chief Constable of West Yorkshire Police, John Robins, seeking an explanation. "I told him it was a mistake," he said.

West Yorkshire Police have been contacted for a statement.

Could Johnson really snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?!?

[ranzino]

You're once more gambling on something the EU will or will not do. That's not what I'm asking about. What can the UK do, unilaterally, to prevent no deal that isn't revoking A50?

they found a late easter egg...... bring back the WA again and vote another time.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...es-by-mistake/

[Northern Goblin]

You're once more gambling on something the EU will or will not do. That's not what I'm asking about. What can the UK do, unilaterally, to prevent no deal that isn't revoking A50?

Accepting the current deal, which is a non starter.

Revocation of A50 is something to bring up should we not see another extension. As is so far, nothing seems to suggest that the EU won't grant it.