The Brexit aftermath thread

[mojojojo202]

We don't want more automation and AI, and if they had that then they would do that at AI costs less than employees anyway.

We want more work, not less.

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The 48hr working time directive from the EU

Under current law you can't work more than 48hr a week unless you choose to opt out. Most people opt out because then you can get overtime and more pay ofc. I've used it often to work the odd weekend for some fat extra cash when it's been needed. Labour would remove that right so I would either have to do it under the books or move to a country that let's me work overtime.

Really, you want to spend your every waking hour at work?

I really dont think you are speaking for the majority there.

This is one of those things like asking what farmers want and them answering 'bigger horses' rather than a tractor.

What Labour is asking you is if you want to do easier work for less time with lower risk of injury and the same pay... then your telling them to do one.

[Monster Hunter]

Really, you want to spend your every waking hour at work?

I really dont think you are speaking for the majority there.

This is one of those things like asking what farmers want and them answering 'bigger horses' rather than a tractor.

What Labour is asking you is if you want to do easier work for less time with lower risk of injury and the same pay... then your telling them to do one.

I want more money and things to cost less. But in the mean time if I want to afford to own a fucking roof over my head in this country I need to work my every fucking waking hr.

That's what you and jess arn't getting, people work reqularly over the 48 limit we have now because we NEED to. Its the only way we can afford to not just exhist for many but to at least have something other than debt to leave our kids.

What this will do is hurt Britain's industry's, make them less competitive and by a massive blow to the working class that is using overtime currently to make up for the shit state austerity has left us in. Your roaming the shoe string safety net that many rely on befor fixing the problem that causes us to rely on it!

It will be a working class cataclysm the likes that hasn't been seen since thatchers reforms.

[Jessicka]

My base rate won't increase, there's absolutely no guarentee of that. You assume the company is going to keep paying me the same wage but for only 4 days, that's incredibly nieve, there is no way that's going to happen. All that will happen is I will get under more pressure to meet the same deadlines but with less days and less options and less pay. And if labour force the company to keep my same base pay then I might as well kiss my fucking job good bye because some Indian will be doing it within a year.

If they want the work done, they will pay you to do it. If you can't get it done in time, they either give you more time, overtime, or they invest and give you better tools to facilitate your work.

[The Butt Witch]

Bojo got rekt. LMAO.

[Pann]

What Labour is asking you is if you want to do easier work for less time with lower risk of injury and the same pay... then your telling them to do one.

That has nothing to do with Brexit but where do you think the money will come from for businesses to pay their staff the same amount for less hours?

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If they want the work done, they will pay you to do it. If you can't get it done in time, they either give you more time, overtime, or they invest and give you better tools to facilitate your work.

Or they go out of business.

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To get back to Brexit.



So true!

[Jessicka]

That has nothing to do with Brexit but where do you think the money will come from for businesses to pay their staff the same amount for less hours?

Same place as it does in other countries where they have higher rates of pay. The UK has the largest disparity between management and worker rates of pay in the EU.

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Or they go out of business.

A company so on the knife edge like that, that can only exist through worker exploitation, probably deserves it. That's how capitalism works.

[Monster Hunter]

Really, you want to spend your every waking hour at work?

I really dont think you are speaking for the majority there.

This is one of those things like asking what farmers want and them answering 'bigger horses' rather than a tractor.

What Labour is asking you is if you want to do easier work for less time with lower risk of injury and the same pay... then your telling them to do one.

Also the farm owner wanted the tractor, the farm labourers on the other hand are pritty pissed it now takes only 1 guy 3 hrs instead of several guys 6 hrs to plow the field. Because the 1 guy left is on half pay and the others are all collecting dole money!

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If they want the work done, they will pay you to do it. If you can't get it done in time, they either give you more time, overtime, or they invest and give you better tools to facilitate your work.

What over time... Under labour I can't go over 48 so what will they do?

Oh yea make me redundant and move to a country where the workers can.

[Jessicka]

Also the farm owner wanted the tractor, the farm labourers on the other hand are pritty pissed it now takes only 1 guy 3 hrs instead of several guys 6 hrs to plow the field. Because the 1 guy left is on half pay and the others are all collecting dole money!

That is the natural evolution of business in a capitalist free market. If he doesn't get the tractor, he'll go out of business anyway because Jimmy down the road will, and he'll not have to pay 3 workers to do half a day's work for one guy.

[Monster Hunter]

That is the natural evolution of business in a capitalist free market. If he doesn't get the tractor, he'll go out of business anyway because Jimmy down the road will, and he'll not have to pay 3 workers to do half a day's work for one guy.

Yea, but fuck me I don't expect the goverment to be forcing him to have the tractor and then at the same time have the fucking gaul to say they stand for the working class....

Labour want to take away my right to negotiate my own hours based on what I need. That's the short and swift of it.

[Khetagurov]

To get back to Brexit.



So true!

He'll prorogue again I reckon. He doesn't care a shit what the court says.

[Jessicka]

What over time... Under labour I can't go over 48 so what will they do?

Oh yea make me redundant and move to a country where the workers can.

Then you get another job, hopefully on a better rate. It's been shown that people who move around jobs a lot, looking to move up, do tend to end up earning more than those that get settled into a position.

I've been made redundant, my dad got made redundant twice. It happens.

Yea, but fuck me I don't expect the goverment to be forcing him to have the tractor and then at the same time have the fucking gaul to say they stand for the working class....

Labour want to take away my right to negotiate my own hours based on what I need. That's the short and swift of it.

They're making your boss and Jimmy have tractors, so that particular playing field is level.

Where's the influx of workers from the EU countries that didn't take the working time directive opt out; Finland, Sweden, Denmark etc? Surely all their workers are screaming out to get over here to get those extra hours in?

[LeGin Tufnel]

To get back to Brexit.



So true!

Arse, goddamit. Arse. Not ass.

We're not the 51st state (yet).

[Monster Hunter]

He'll prorogue again I reckon. He doesn't care a shit what the court says.

Hmmm idk there's a good chance of that but I'm still unsure exactly what the point of poroguing was in the first place.

[mojojojo202]

I want more money and things to cost less. But in the mean time if I want to afford to own a fucking roof over my head in this country I need to work my every fucking waking hr.

That's what you and jess arn't getting, people work reqularly over the 48 limit we have now because we NEED to. Its the only way we can afford to not just exhist for many but to at least have something other than debt to leave our kids.

What this will do is hurt Britain's industry's, make them less competitive and by a massive blow to the working class that is using overtime currently to make up for the shit state austerity has left us in. Your roaming the shoe string safety net that many rely on befor fixing the problem that causes us to rely on it!

It will be a working class cataclysm the likes that hasn't been seen since thatchers reforms.

I mean if your just going to assume that further, more drastic economic reforms aren't also going to take place then sure, it will be dreadful, but that isn't Labours position.

Is the current situation working for you? His this what you want? To spend 70 hours a week making other people rich when you could be spending time with your kids or making money for yourself?

If you want to change something, to make something better for working people, you cannot absolutely refuse to even question the current economic paradigm. Working class people slamming themselves to work harder, work longer and compete with other isn't making their lives better, it isn't helping them or everyone else. Time to try something else.

[Kallisto]

Arse, goddamit. Arse. Not ass.

We're not the 51st state (yet).

Make English Proper Again!

Although Ass is also an acceptable old English term for donkey if that's what they meant. Cummings shot Boris' Donkey.

[mojojojo202]

He'll prorogue again I reckon. He doesn't care a shit what the court says.

And he'll be faced with contempt of court charges or be impeached by Parliament?

[Khetagurov]

And he'll be faced with contempt of court charges or be impeached by Parliament?

I read earlier that impeachment in the UK system is almost impossible, although the reasons for that weren't given. Mind you, we're in strange times, so who knows?

As for contempt, again, who knows? I don't think he cares at all about it, it's all about obfuscating Parliament and stopping it legislating against no deal at this point, so tbh, even if he were to be held in contempt for a second prorogation, it would just run the clock down even further, and it seems he'd be happy with that.

[Mayhem]

Yea, but fuck me I don't expect the goverment to be forcing him to have the tractor and then at the same time have the fucking gaul to say they stand for the working class....

Labour want to take away my right to negotiate my own hours based on what I need. That's the short and swift of it.

Do you understand that your actual skills are useless right now if there's someone with fewer skills but more time?

That's not a healthy work environment where your ability to negotiate is always undermined by someones ability to work even more hours than you. Also, with a 32h week and a 48h cap, you'd have more overtime hours than with a 48h week and 60h weeks during holiday season.

So assuming you'd be paid the same for a regular workweek, you'd be getting more out of it with fewer hours working.

Also with leaving the EU, and considering most of software engineering is part of the service industry, your country could help you with putting tariffs on stuff coming from for example India, so that your job can't be done by someone else over there. On the other hand, everyone in the world could do the same to the UK.

[Monster Hunter]

Then you get another job, hopefully on a better rate. It's been shown that people who move around jobs a lot, looking to move up, do tend to end up earning more than those that get settled into a position.

I've been made redundant, my dad got made redundant twice. It happens.


They're making your boss and Jimmy have tractors, so that particular playing field is level.

Where's the influx of workers from the EU countries that didn't take the working time directive opt out; Finland, Sweden, Denmark etc? Surely all their workers are screaming out to get over here to get those extra hours in?

They have opt outs. The time directive has an in built opt out.

I also wouldn't point to lesser economy's as examples of success.

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I mean if your just going to assume that further, more drastic economic reforms aren't also going to take place then sure, it will be dreadful, but that isn't Labours position.

Is the current situation working for you? His this what you want? To spend 70 hours a week making other people rich when you could be spending time with your kids or making money for yourself?

If you want to change something, to make something better for working people, you cannot absolutely refuse to even question the current economic paradigm. Working class people slamming themselves to work harder, work longer and compete with other isn't making their lives better, it isn't helping them or everyone else. Time to try something else.

Ofc I question the current economic situation. I don't WANT to work long hours but like many many people we NEED to work them. That's what your not getting, that over time stands between many people and absolute calamity.

I don't assume anything, I go on what's been said untill they can halve the value of houses in the UK to make them affordable and untill they can increase wages and untill they can cut the cost of living and reduce tax, then they shouldn't even be considering taking away workers rights to overtime.

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Then you get another job, hopefully on a better rate. It's been shown that people who move around jobs a lot, looking to move up, do tend to end up earning more than those that get settled into a position.

I've been made redundant, my dad got made redundant twice. It happens.


They're making your boss and Jimmy have tractors, so that particular playing field is level.

Where's the influx of workers from the EU countries that didn't take the working time directive opt out; Finland, Sweden, Denmark etc? Surely all their workers are screaming out to get over here to get those extra hours in?

Also my job is fine and exactly what you expect from a financially viable company.

I work I get paid.

I work over my 48hr I get paid more.

Labour wants to prevent me doing that.

There's nothing to argue.

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Do you understand that your actual skills are useless right now if there's someone with fewer skills but more time?

That's not a healthy work environment where your ability to negotiate is always undermined by someones ability to work even more hours than you. Also, with a 32h week and a 48h cap, you'd have more overtime hours than with a 48h week and 60h weeks during holiday season.

So assuming you'd be paid the same for a regular workweek, you'd be getting more out of it with fewer hours working.

Also with leaving the EU, and considering most of software engineering is part of the service industry, your country could help you with putting tariffs on stuff coming from for example India, so that your job can't be done by someone else over there. On the other hand, everyone in the world could do the same to the UK.

So the company i work for would be less profitable in the UK than in America or the EU.

Our clients would have to pay more than the equivilant from the eu and us

And your answer is start a tariff war? That will ultimately make us even less competitive!

And all the while I still can't choose to do 60hrs of work for 60hrs of pay, because aparantly according to labour I nolonger have the right over my own fucking means of production.

The goverment shouldn't be dictating to me how long I can and cannot work for, and if they do I will have to move or work for cash under the table which is a sad state of affairs.

[Thrundi]

If you MUST work > 48h a week to survive, you're not fine at all.