The Brexit aftermath thread

[Demolitia]

Looks like the EU is making life easier for the British who are Working and Living in the EU by creating a Residence Card.

https://www.politico.eu/article/brit...ence-documen/#

To be fair the UK is doing more or less the same thing. The only thing is that the EU is issuing a physical card while the UK has a digital register.
It's not as though the settled status for EU citizens in the UK disappeared.

[Mayhem]

To be fair the UK is doing more or less the same thing. The only thing is that the EU is issuing a physical card while the UK has a digital register.
It's not as though the settled status for EU citizens in the UK disappeared.

There were some troubles with settled status, are there similar issues with the residence card? Does anyone know anything about the two procedures?

[Kronik85]

What I've gathered is that the issue with the residence card is that it may have to be reissued while it is easier to discriminate against someone if they are only in a digital register since they need to be checked against it (against a card that can just be presented at will)

Not entirely sure where you expect this discrimination to take place exactly. The only time an EU citizen would need to prove they have settled status is directly interacting with the government or gaining employment which already entails interacting with the government.

I'm always up for taking shots at the BoJo Gov but this issue is fallow ground.

[Temp name]

Not entirely sure where you expect this discrimination to take place exactly. The only time an EU citizen would need to prove they have settled status is directly interacting with the government or gaining employment which already entails interacting with the government.

Or when buying/renting a house
Or anything else that you only want residents of your country doing

[LeGin Tufnel]

Or when buying/renting a house
Or anything else that you only want residents of your country doing

https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu...d-status-means

You’ll be able to:

work in the UK
use the NHS for free as you do now
enrol in education or continue studying
access public funds such as benefits and pensions, if you’re eligible for them
travel in and out of the UK

If you want to highlight fascistic tendencies in the current administration, let's keep it accurate. E.g.,

Andrew Sabisky: No 10 adviser resigns over alleged race comments

Although, while you're on the subject, foreign investment in London property does need to be made less attractive.

[Elegiac]

To be fair the UK is doing more or less the same thing. The only thing is that the EU is issuing a physical card while the UK has a digital register.
It's not as though the settled status for EU citizens in the UK disappeared.

Ten quid the EU resident badge is going to be a yellow star with “Remoaner” on it because Brexiters have no self awareness.

[Teleros]

That just sounds like a universally good thing. The EU gets to keep labourers, and the UK either does the same, or get to look like idiots.

Rather have a way to send them home TBH. Every immigrant lowers the wages of the existing workers - good old supply & demand curves will show that easily enough.

If you want to highlight fascistic tendencies in the current administration, let's keep it accurate.

Would help if people here had any clue what fascism was beyond crimethink .

Andrew Sabisky: No 10 adviser resigns over alleged race comments

*Reads article*

So what did he say that was racist exactly? I mean, the contraceptive thing would be a pretty fascistic (as in, actually fascistic) policy if implemented, although it's not clear he's actually supporting it - I mean, if he got a job at Number 10 I'd assume he's an intelligent man, and thus can entertain an idea without endorsing it. Then there's an a couple of accurate lines about the current state of IQ testing & the science of intelligence*, a utilitarian argument about boosting intelligence (hint: this also applies to pretty much everything in society), and an amusing opinion about women's sports.

Not seeing any racism there. Just another case of cuckservatives throwing someone under the bus in a desperate attempt to appease the usual leftists.

*Waits for idiots to leap on this without realising that IQ =/= intelligence, just for starters.

[Elegiac]

Rather have a way to send them home TBH. Every immigrant lowers the wages of the existing workers - good old supply & demand curves will show that easily enough.

Minimum wage is a thing and the demand curve doesn't apply to markets where participation is compulsory regardless, like labour.

Miss me with that nativist nonsense. English people are no more entitled to those jobs than anyone else.

[Teleros]

Minimum wage is a thing

So we should drive wages down to it? Or encourage illegal low wages (remember Morecambe Bay)? Is that the plan?

the demand curve doesn't apply to markets where participation is compulsory regardless, like labour.

1. And the supply curve?
2. Yes, the demand curve still applies. Well, unless you have some seriously solid evidence otherwise, of course...

Miss me with that nativist nonsense. English people are no more entitled to those jobs than anyone else.

Our country, our laws, our customs, our traditions, our jobs. If you as a foreign business want to pull out, fine, but don't flood our labour market with cheap labour & impoverish British families in the quest for muh GDP or muh stock market prices (yes I know plenty of British companies do the same, they're just as bad if not worse).

[Elegiac]

So we should drive wages down to it?

Nope, and fortunately there's no evidence of this happening with minimum wage.

Or encourage illegal low wages (remember Morecambe Bay)? Is that the plan?

How is this the fault of migrant workers and not the companies hiring such people, exactly?

1. And the supply curve?

Same shit. Market Forces 101 isn't applicable in this case because the labour market is captive.

2. Yes, the demand curve still applies. Well, unless you have some seriously solid evidence otherwise, of course...

Man can you imagine people having to work under threat of destitution inherently giving more bargaining power to employers re wages because they can afford to walk away from the negotiating table? Lol.

Our country, our laws, our customs, our traditions, our jobs. If you as a foreign business want to pull out, fine, but don't flood our labour market with cheap labour & impoverish British families in the quest for muh GDP or muh stock market prices (yes I know plenty of British companies do the same, they're just as bad if not worse).

Uh huh. Again, what makes them "your" jobs - if you are clearly the more capable and educated party you'd get the job easily, right?

It's almost as if the system is inherently exploitative and the nativist narrative is designed to distract rubes from that fact by directing their ire at society's most vulnerable. /s

And I'ma be real with you here hun, your arguments are way past their use by date. The GOP has been tossing around the exact same shit for decades and it remains as bunk today as when they first started up with it. I mean, it's cute that Brexiters think they got in on the ground floor of something new and exciting. But it isn't reflective of reality; it's the same old boring and loathsome bigotry that defines nativism and has done for more than a century and a half at this point.

[Teleros]

Nope, and fortunately there's no evidence of this happening with minimum wage.

Really? This ONS graph suggests otherwise - and remember it'll have been inflated by very high earners at the top rather than ordinary workers.

How is this the fault of migrant workers and not the companies hiring such people, exactly?

No migrant workers = physically impossible to hire them for illegally low wages.

Same shit. Market Forces 101 isn't applicable in this case because the labour market is captive.

Man can you imagine people having to work under threat of destitution inherently giving more bargaining power to employers re wages because they can afford to walk away from the negotiating table? Lol.

Again, prove it. Rhetorical questions aren't evidence.

Uh huh. Again, what makes them "your" jobs - if you are clearly the more capable and educated party you'd get the job easily, right?

They're in our country, under our laws and all that? You can't have it both ways - if you want to do business under British laws and all that stuff, you should provide a benefit to the British people - the ones responsible for creating that environment you want to do business in.

The GOP has been tossing around the exact same shit for decades

Some of them - and some Dems have too. Most of both parties are captive to the new & exciting "invite the world" agenda though - hence why even under the God-Emperor it's hard to shut down all the visa programs into the USA, or why under the Tories there's been sod all done about immigration into the UK. Would've been much better had we done as Japan did after WW2 and just not let anyone in.

[Elegiac]

Really? This ONS graph suggests otherwise - and remember it'll have been inflated by very high earners at the top rather than ordinary workers.

Didn't your science teacher ever tell you about correlation and causation? Lol.

No migrant workers = physically impossible to hire them for illegally low wages.

Mhm. And when that happened in California, you know what happened? Machine harvestable tomatoes got invented.

It's literally just a function of business owners not wanting to pay people adequately.

Again, prove it. Rhetorical questions aren't evidence.

Neither are correlations, but thus far all we've had are thought experiments and basic logic should be more than sufficient given your previous posts.

If people have to work to live, they will take what wages they can get. It's that simple.

They're in our country, under our laws and all that? You can't have it both ways - if you want to do business under British laws and all that stuff, you should provide a benefit to the British people - the ones responsible for creating that environment you want to do business in.

They provide benefit to the English people (not British, don't lump the poor Gaels and Celts in with your neo-imperial nonsense) through the goods and services they provide and the taxes they pay.

It is not their fault if English people are not competitive in the labour market as you seem to be implying.

Some of them - and some Dems have too. Most of both parties are captive to the new & exciting "invite the world" agenda though - hence why even under the God-Emperor it's hard to shut down all the visa programs into the USA, or why under the Tories there's been sod all done about immigration into the UK. Would've been much better had we done as Japan did after WW2 and just not let anyone in.

Indeed, it's almost as if racial animus is a problem that crosses party lines.

And yes, Japan is doing so well with its post-Showa population problems and difficulty attracting immigrant labor due to how hostile the culture is to foreigners. /s You serious right now?

- - - Updated - - -

Brocialists: "Affirmative action and quotas are bad because they encourage an environment where unskilled people are handed jobs by no virtue of them ticking a particular demographic box!"

Also Brocialists: "I am entitled to this job regardless of my qualifications because I am British and they are not."

[LeGin Tufnel]

Not seeing any racism there. Just another case of cuckservatives throwing someone under the bus in a desperate attempt to appease the usual leftists.

Coming from the poster who, in the original Brexit thread, wrote that deaths as a direct result of the economic consequences of Brexit would be a price worth paying for blue passports / the right to eat chlorine-washed chicken / insert other oh-so-important manifestation of "hard-won sovereignty”, your attitude does not surprise me at all.

Are you one of those “misfits” / “wierdos” who read Cummings’ blog and applied for a job at No. 10? Did’ya get one?

Yes: the actions of some Brexiteers (and not just those on the fringes) before, during and after the referendum and their narratives on immigration, race and nationalism have been fascistic. No, not all Brexiteers are fascists.

[Kiri]

Again, prove it. Rhetorical questions aren't evidence.

Neither is saying "it just applies", tbh. This is where you would link scientific studies, preferably peer reviewed and displaying a solid methodology, to prove your point. Even in Econ 101, one should learn that supply and demand curves can differ wildly on different markets, especially with respect to elasticity. It is easily possible that a change in supply does not effect the price. Hence, it's necessary to make those studies in the first place.
I personally remember a study from Oxford that suggested Immigration to have quite the small impact on wages, and even then mostly on those of low-skilled other migrants, and that any short-term negative effects may well be off-set by long-term positive ones. But I only read that for a paper I wrote myself and didn't even use it there, so I don't remember how they went about it. Either way, you both have a duty to prove your points, not just him. Conventional wisdom isn't that migrants always depress wages, but that the effects of immigration can differ wildly on a case by case basis.

[Teleros]

Didn't your science teacher ever tell you about correlation and causation?

And this is not evidence because...? Oh right, you have no reason.

Mhm. And when that happened in California, you know what happened? Machine harvestable tomatoes got invented.

Sounds good to me.

If people have to work to live, they will take what wages they can get. It's that simple.

But that's not what happens IRL. People hold out for better wages or other forms of compensation all the time.

They provide benefit to the English people (not British, don't lump the poor Gaels and Celts in with your neo-imperial nonsense)

Speak for yourself. I'm not English, or Welsh, or Scottish, I'm British.

through the goods and services they provide and the taxes they pay.

Hah. If you set up a business here but import your workers from abroad, frankly I'd rather you buggered off and we just bought your product from an overseas competitor.

And yes, Japan is doing so well with its post-Showa population problems and difficulty attracting immigrant labor due to how hostile the culture is to foreigners. /s You serious right now?

Of course I'm serious. If you think the problems in Japan come down to not enough immigration I'm surprised you have the intelligence to post on here. There are rather more issues at play than that in Japan. Japan is unironically in a better position right now because, despite the ageing population and all that, it's still Japanese. Good for them.

Brocialists

Sod socialism. Never worked, never will. Admittedly it's less destructive to nations and families than your globalist economy full of atomised, interchangeable individual worker units, but that hardly means I'm in favour of it.

= = =

Yes: the actions of some Brexiteers (and not just those on the fringes) before, during and after the referendum and their narratives on immigration, race and nationalism have been fascistic. No, not all Brexiteers are fascists.

Again though, what part of this ex-SpAd's writings were actually racist, which was the original charge against him?

= = =

Edit

Either way, you both have a duty to prove your points, not just him.

He's the one making the extraordinary claim, not I.

[Temp name]

https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu...d-status-means

You’ll be able to:

work in the UK
use the NHS for free as you do now
enrol in education or continue studying
access public funds such as benefits and pensions, if you’re eligible for them
travel in and out of the UK

If you want to highlight fascistic tendencies in the current administration, let's keep it accurate. E.g.,

Andrew Sabisky: No 10 adviser resigns over alleged race comments

Although, while you're on the subject, foreign investment in London property does need to be made less attractive.

Just pointing out other times when you'd need to prove your settled status than dealing directly with the government

[Pann]

Just pointing out other times when you'd need to prove your settled status than dealing directly with the government

There is no requirement for someone renting or buying a property in the UK to be a permanent resident thus there would no need for them to prove their settled status and not only is there no requirement to disclose their settled status it is illegal for potential landlords to ask.

'Checking EU, EEA and Swiss citizens

[...]

It’s against the law to ask EU, EEA or Swiss citizens to show that they have settled status or pre-settled status when starting a new tenancy.'

https://www.gov.uk/check-tenant-righ...s/how-to-check

[dribbles]

There is no requirement for someone renting or buying a property in the UK to be a permanent resident thus there would no need for them to prove their settled status and not only is there no requirement to disclose their settled status it is illegal for potential landlords to ask.

'Checking EU, EEA and Swiss citizens

[...]

It’s against the law to ask EU, EEA or Swiss citizens to show that they have settled status or pre-settled status when starting a new tenancy.'

https://www.gov.uk/check-tenant-righ...s/how-to-check

Actually you must check every potential tenant that they legally have the right to rent residential property. It is illegal to discriminate, single out and only check people you think are not British citizens. John Smith and Victor Hugo as equal potential tenants should in law face the exact same checks which are quite likely as a result to disclose if they have, or not, settled status.

It is bad, probably EU derived, unenforceable legislation that instructs landlords/people who are not immigration experts how to think. How is anyone in authority ever going to know, let alone be able to prove how a landlord thinks unless he outright states his policy?

In practice landlords can do WTF they like and I cite the recent case of Fergus Wilson who banned Indian and Pakistani tenants because he says, they made his properties stink of curry. It was illegal for him to do that, but if he had kept quiet and only thought that, who would ever know? I'd love to know how many properties he now rents to Asian people, I would hazard a guess at none.

Ridding the UK of EU thought police derived laws after Brexit is nothing but a good thing.

My property I decide who gets to rent it. And if I decide your nose is too big, or you'll make the place stink of smelly cheese and garlic as a reason you ain't renting it then tough, even if that's noseist or whatever ist or ism the thought police think it is. I just won't, unlike Fergus, outright say it...for now.

[Pann]

Actually you must check every potential tenant that they legally have the right to rent residential property. It is illegal to discriminate, single out and only check people you think are not British citizens.

True, however their settled status does not form part of these checks.

[shimerra]

My property I decide who gets to rent it. And if I decide your nose is too big, or you'll make the place stink of smelly cheese and garlic as a reason you ain't renting it then tough, even if that's noseist or whatever ist or ism the thought police think it is. I just won't, unlike Fergus, outright say it...for now.

So basically you're a racist piece of shit. Not news to any of us.