The Brexit aftermath thread

[Kiri]

Well a referendum on a singular policy would put the question to bed for decades. Certainly if it went the way for the EU or against the AfD would be crushed, at least weakened, as most reasonable people might wish. Look where UKIP are in the UK and they won the referendum here.

General elections are complex issues by their very nature, far more so than a simple yes/no in/out single issue referendum. If the people are too dumb to understand a single issue vote your arguement for denying them that must lead to the logical conclusion the fact that they are too dumb for general elections?

Do away with those as well?

General elections are complex as well, of course, which is why it would be bad to have direct democracy on top of that. It's the best we have, so it is best to focus on having good elections instead of trying having random other 'elections' for singular issues in-between.
It likely would be settled, but again, our system is not built for that. Unlike in the UK, the German government quite simply can't hold a referendum like that without first having one about the constitution. Mind you, that is the German system that was established with input by the allies, so that is quite likely what the UK wanted for Germany back then.

[Deleted]

What happened to;



Westminster disagrees.

Westminster is a world to its self, it doesn't see any where outside of London. every body hates fucking London its about the only thing we all agree on.

[Kallisto]

So, you hate London, the Scots and the EU. Is this typical of the English Remain voter or is it particular to you?

Typical non london English brexit nationalist really when it comes to his kind of talk. Likely also wants an English parliament while ignoring it will have the same issues as westminster with perception of London Bias. (Although in that area is why I think England at that level should be broke into regions of self governance as it would be better for the regions themselves and won't have to worry about London unless you're in London.)

[Deleted]

Typical non london English brexit nationalist really when it comes to his kind of talk. Likely also wants an English parliament while ignoring it will have the same issues as westminster with perception of London Bias. (Although in that area is why I think England at that level should be broke into regions of self governance as it would be better for the regions themselves and won't have to worry about London unless you're in London.)

its not nationalism to just simply want your own government to give a shit about you ? i mean good lord it surly should have been a wake up call with the referendum on just how totally out of touch London is with the rest of the nation. and ofc it is London has everything all the money all the businesses whilst the rest of the country rotted through the 60's, 70's 80's and 90's and you cant just undo 40 years of neglect, 40 years of being the but of the jokes and 40 years of being completely ignored whilst dress wearing nancys and sheep shaggers get there own parliaments and there own rule. ever since Stamford bridge the north has just been fucked over by the south whenever it feels like it.

and they wonder why even Cornwall wants independence...

is it so much to ask that we can all go our own way in things?

id say im not an English nationalist because England isn't a united country i suppose you could call me a Northumbrian nationalist if you want a label

wanna know why i hate the scots? because they get twice the funding for half the population and have the fucking gaul to bitch and moan, watching there politics is like being a homeless white guy at a feminist rally. i think scots should be sent on school trips to old northern mining towns then they can see how good they have it.

[draykorinee]

My inner Grammar Nazi is fighting to get out.

Why are Northerners such whiny people?

[Vankrys]

its not nationalism to just simply want your own government to give a shit about you ? i mean good lord it surly should have been a wake up call with the referendum on just how totally out of touch London is with the rest of the nation. and ofc it is London has everything all the money all the businesses whilst the rest of the country rotted through the 60's, 70's 80's and 90's and you cant just undo 40 years of neglect, 40 years of being the but of the jokes and 40 years of being completely ignored whilst dress wearing nancys and sheep shaggers get there own parliaments and there own rule. ever since Stamford bridge the north has just been fucked over by the south whenever it feels like it.

and they wonder why even Cornwall wants independence...

is it so much to ask that we can all go our own way in things?

id say im not an English nationalist because England isn't a united country i suppose you could call me a Northumbrian nationalist if you want a label

wanna know why i hate the scots? because they get twice the funding for half the population and have the fucking gaul to bitch and moan, watching there politics is like being a homeless white guy at a feminist rally. i think scots should be sent on school trips to old northern mining towns then they can see how good they have it.

So i hear you resent the fact that your region is somewhat industrially underdeveloped and in dire need of help entering the 21th century.
How is brexit going to fix this? If you have any industries doing business with the EU, Brexit is going to hurt them bad.

You know, in time of recession, it's not the rich and wealthy that suffer, it's the working class, the old and the sick.

[Deleted]

So i hear you resent the fact that your region is somewhat industrially underdeveloped and in dire need of help entering the 21th century.
How is brexit going to fix this? If you have any industries doing business with the EU, Brexit is going to hurt them bad.

You know, in time of recession, it's not the rich and wealthy that suffer, it's the working class, the old and the sick.

Duh fat cats get bailed out workers get stiffed age old problem. Leaving the eu litteraly means fuck all around here we have no industry to do deals with the eu to begin with and the the problem.

The eu vote was as much a rejection of globalisation as the trump vote. Even experts agree there is a large chunk of the working class that's been shafted by globalisation.

As soon as the company's realised the Chinese will work for half the price that was it. The trickle down effect capitalism needs to survive dosent work if it's trickle out to a different country! And then to top it off we import cheep labour to compete with what few jobs are left. Ofc people are fucking pissed off around here.

You wanna here something that had me in stitches I asked a college of mine who's 2nd generation of Pakistan decent who's dad came here to escape the shit storm the tbh was the India v Pakistan war which way he voted. His answer he voted leave, I asked why. He said because he do sengi want my he poles commit gb over taking there jobs.

I nearly fucking died....

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My inner Grammar Nazi is fighting to get out.

Why are Northerners such whiny people?

Because fat fucking southerners closed down all our industry then sit there telling us we're all racist scroungers . only thing a southerner it good at is landing a northerner in a trench.

[Kiri]

Duh fat cats get bailed out workers get stiffed age old problem. Leaving the eu litteraly means fuck all around here we have no industry to do deals with the eu to begin with and the the problem.

The eu vote was as much a rejection of globalisation as the trump vote. Even experts agree there is a large chunk of the working class that's been shafted by globalisation.

As soon as the company's realised the Chinese will work for half the price that was it. The trickle down effect capitalism needs to survive dosent work if it's trickle out to a different country! And then to top it off we import cheep labour to compete with what few jobs are left. Ofc people are fucking pissed off around here.

You wanna here something that had me in stitches I asked a college of mine who's 2nd generation of Pakistan decent who's dad came here to escape the shit storm the tbh was the India v Pakistan war which way he voted. His answer he voted leave, I asked why. He said because he do sengi want my he poles commit gb over taking there jobs.

I nearly fucking died....

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Because fat fucking southerners closed down all our industry then sit there telling us we're all racist scroungers . only thing a southerner it good at is landing a northerner in a trench.

While globalization has caused problems for the working class, neither a Trump nor a Brexit vote really reject it though. Those are just protest votes, exchanging one brand of globalism for another. Trump just stands for even more predatory capitalism taking from the working class to favour the rich, while Brexit will cause Britain to necessarily try and become more globalized and less....eurolized, I guess. Some of the jobs that the evil Polish people took away will just go to Chinese in China instead. The best ways to combat the adverse effects of globalization are still government subsidies of industries that a country seeks to maintain despite comparative disadvantage and retraining to focus on one's advantages. Neither Trump nor May offer that.

[Shadowmelded]

whilst dress wearing nancys and sheep shaggers get there own parliaments and there own rule.

You know why devolution happened? Because people campaigned for it for decades. If you want something, ask for it, don't expect them to just hand it to you.

wanna know why i hate the scots? because they get twice the funding for half the population and have the fucking gaul to bitch and moan, watching there politics is like being a homeless white guy at a feminist rally. i think scots should be sent on school trips to old northern mining towns then they can see how good they have it.

First of all, your numbers seem off. Secondly, do you think Scotland didn't rely heavily on mines or suffered from deindustrialization? Why else do you think we all hate Thatcher? Cause she was ginger?

[Deleted]

While globalization has caused problems for the working class, neither a Trump nor a Brexit vote really reject it though. Those are just protest votes, exchanging one brand of globalism for another. Trump just stands for even more predatory capitalism taking from the working class to favour the rich, while Brexit will cause Britain to necessarily try and become more globalized and less....eurolized, I guess. Some of the jobs that the evil Polish people took away will just go to Chinese in China instead. The best ways to combat the adverse effects of globalization are still government subsidies of industries that a country seeks to maintain despite comparative disadvantage and retraining to focus on one's advantages. Neither Trump nor May offer that.

duh but there is no candidate that stands fir exactly what we want, its either liberal branded middle class socialism or the same old shit.

[Vankrys]

duh but there is no candidate that stands fir exactly what we want, its either liberal branded middle class socialism or the same old shit.

And what is it exactly that you want? I'm going to guess reasonably well paying jobs to live your life decently. Thing is, usually government does not create jobs per se, the private sector does. Thing is, the private sector can only create jobs if it make sense economically. If their is demand for goods and service in the UK, in europe or the world, the private sector will create the jobs to meet the demand.

The thing is, with brexit, and the incertitude of UK deals with EU and the rest of the world, investors aren't filled with tons of confidence to settle industries and offices in the UK.

[Deleted]

You know why devolution happened? Because people campaigned for it for decades. If you want something, ask for it, don't expect them to just hand it to you.


First of all, your numbers seem off. Secondly, do you think Scotland didn't rely heavily on mines or suffered from deindustrialization? Why else do you think we all hate Thatcher? Cause she was ginger?

there a difference. Scotland had a voice before devolution, and now Scotland has an even bigger voice that it uses to drown out every one else as a result Scotland gets the lions share of public spending where as Wales the north and northern Ireland gets conveniently ignored. the whole damn northern power house shit is a few extra bob for Manchester and A BLOODY TRAIN LINE TO LONDON! ffs

the kingdoms of the north (Northumbria and Celtic Rheged (yea funny how Cumbria gets left out of the Celtic recognition)) have just as much right to self determination and identity as Scotland hell there older and lasted far longer and as genealogy studies have shown the people of the north of England are as distinct as the Scottish and irish from the southern English we have our own culture and customs ( that the south loves to take the piss out off)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...1.html#gallery

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And what is it exactly that you want? I'm going to guess reasonably well paying jobs to live your life decently. Thing is, usually government does not create jobs per se, the private sector does. Thing is, the private sector can only create jobs if it make sense economically. If their is demand for goods and service in the UK, in europe or the world, the private sector will create the jobs to meet the demand.

The thing is, with brexit, and the incertitude of UK deals with EU and the rest of the world, investors aren't filled with tons of confidence to settle industries and offices in the UK.

what we want. (and this has come from many many bar room discussion's so not a full canvas but probably not far off considering the breadth of views my friends have from left to right)

a benefits system that provides work, people want to work they dont want to keep going down the dole office just to tell them how many applications they got rejected from just to get a stipend and they dont want to be farmed off as free labour most i talk to seem very in favour of a public works initiative that lets you work 3-4 days a week doing jobs for the community from fixing roads to planting to forestry work.

a properly free NHS with more doctors and less bloody managers.

a housing market that isnt used as some investment toy. people dont want to rent we dont want to return to land barons we want houses built we want council housing back.

a police force thats a force not a service, and prisons that are punishment not hotels. (do you know how traumatising it was for my friend who was mugged to see his mugger back out a month later... fucking joke)

a systems thats fair for every one being a poor and white shouldnt make you less likely to get help than being poor and black. (you want to know where racisim is comming from join the council house waiting list)

some fucking investment in our infrastructure up here (it took 4 fucking years before one of our main roads had its pot holes filled in, it got so deep dogs used to jump in it for a bath)

stop with the fucking anti-northern bullshit stereotypes and racism

provide company's with incentive to set up shop up north.

cut the bull crap in education get people taking engineering, science and medical degree's and stop funnelling kids into useless arts degrees only to wind up competing for low skill jobs its pointless and moronic if a kid can do art he dosent need a degree and the debt and if they cant then its jut evil to let them go through that only to wind up no better for it. (that's a personal one from a very very bitter friend who took an animation degree even though i told him he was being stupid :/)

also apology's for the grammer and spelling im dyslexic and typing this out in a mood. but im not thick i was born to a working class family when i was a kid we couldn't afford to have the central heating on more than a few hours and we dident have double glazing i remember getting up for school with frost on the inside of the windows. school was piss poor as well i once spent a whole day locked in the music room with no food or water because ofsted was inspecting and i was an embarrassment. i remember hearing my dad cry because of lack of money and he worked and worked hard every hour of over time there was. but i also got through it i got no GCSE's but luckily our free college system is the one shining thing in our education system let me get equivalent certificates and i went on to get a BSC and now work as a computer programmer so my kids dont have to go through what i went through. i maby lower middle class or young professional or what ever there calling it nowadays but most of my friends are still stuck with broken dreams and dead ends so i know nothing has changed. and thats the issue nothing changes and sometimes any change even bad change is preferable just to be different that's why so many voted for brexit and why the rust belt in the US voted for trump, yes its stupid i personally voted remain but i can understand where there comming from. and if people like you and those who have power just tryed to understand why instead of jumping to calling them stupid or racist then we might solve the issues and avoid this happening again. dismising them hasnt worked for the last 40 years why not try helping ?

[Deleted]

wait what do you mean "properly free" NHS?

Scrap National Insurance entirely?

[Deleted]

wait what do you mean "properly free" NHS?

Scrap National Insurance entirely?

take it you don't live in England.
you need to pay for
prescriptions.
dental treatment
some eye care

aparantly they also charge for wigs :/ thats just a bit mean really considering who needs them.

[Slant]

[snipped a lot of grievances]

You do realize that Brexit won't change any of those things, as those are almost all exclusively domestic problems to be solved by your domestic Government, right? Good luck with that.

[Deleted]

take it you don't live in England.
you need to pay for
prescriptions.
dental treatment
some eye care

aparantly they also charge for wigs :/ thats just a bit mean really considering who needs them.

Plenty of those things are free to certain members of society, usually the members who aren't in a position to pay.

As someone whose recently had Dental work done, i'm very glad I went to an NHS dentist where prices are controlled instead of a private Dentist where I would have been charged 10x more.

Also, where would the additional money come from for the NHS? You can say scrap managers etc, but that won't cover the additional expenses you're talking about. Not even the fabled 350m a week would make a dent.

[Deleted]

Plenty of those things are free to certain members of society, usually the members who aren't in a position to pay.

As someone whose recently had Dental work done, i'm very glad I went to an NHS dentist where prices are controlled instead of a private Dentist where I would have been charged 10x more.

Also, where would the additional money come from for the NHS? You can say scrap managers etc, but that won't cover the additional expenses you're talking about. Not even the fabled 350m a week would make a dent.

if they had invested during a down turn which is business 101 and stimulated the economy instead of bailing out bankers then they could have paid it with the current tax rates by having more people earning by now.

also im not knocking the service they do an exceptional job with what they have. i use the nhs dentists and doctors though im tempted to go private just to be less of a burden on the system. though i have never needed any dental work bar the yearly check-ups (im one of those gifted with naturally aligned teeth and enough room for my wisdom teeth)

[Deleted]

if they had invested during a down turn which is business 101 and stimulated the economy instead of bailing out bankers then they could have paid it with the current tax rates by having more people earning by now.

So you're plan has absolutely nothing to do with the EU and requires a time machine.

Nice.

[Deleted]

You do realize that Brexit won't change any of those things, as those are almost all exclusively domestic problems to be solved by your domestic Government, right? Good luck with that.

and thats why i voted remain. the leaving the EU was just people wanting to fuck over Europeans and rich Brits. shake it up and hope it falls back down in a better place. thats it.

take away a sizable chunk of the EU's GDP and see how it handles Spain, Greece and Italy and at the same time give the toffs in downing street a fright

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So you're plan has absolutely nothing to do with the EU and requires a time machine.

Nice.

im just a citizen i dont make the plans. i also voted remain. im just the dude in the house thats burning down saying i told you so as every one runs about pointing fingers

[Slant]

and thats why i voted remain. the leaving the EU was just people wanting to fuck over Europeans and rich Brits. shake it up and hope it falls back down in a better place. thats it.

take away a sizable chunk of the EU's GDP and see how it handles Spain, Greece and Italy and at the same time give the toffs in downing street a fright

We'll do fine. I don't get how you vote remain, yet are hating on the EU at the same time. Basically, you're just whinging that life didn't hand you a billion pound inheritance, aren't you. Newsflash: Life usually doesn't work like that. You'll be where you are for the rest of your life. Mostly, because you refuse to accept that you are the only factor that can change your life. No one else is going to do it for you. Certainly not some barroom discussion about politics.