The Brexit aftermath thread

[Slant]

Nations break agreements and deals almost as often as humans break wind. It's really no biggie. The ultimate penalty and consequence for such a transgression is as follows...

The EU can request that the UK is fined if the Government refuses to comply.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/14...rn-ireland-spt

UK answer? Request denied. Nothing, another brexit benefit, the EU can do about it.

Not surprised that you don't know what you're talking about. But for the benefit of the intelligent people in this thread... let's go through this, shall we?

UK-EU Withdrawal Agreement:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...EN#d1e8217-1-1

Article 170

Initiation of the arbitration procedure

1. [...] if no mutually agreed solution has been reached [...], the Union or the United Kingdom may request the establishment of an arbitration panel. Such request shall be made in writing to the other party and to the International Bureau of the Permanent Court of Arbitration. [...]

The UK doesn't get to reject jack shit. It's the International Bureau of the Permanent Court of Arbitration: https://pca-cpa.org/en/about/structu...tional-bureau/

Who's that? Glad you asked. It's an international panel of very, very diverse and not at all UK-centric arbitrators selected by the Bureau's contracting parties for six years. ALL the contracting countries using that Bureau. People who are PROFESSIONAL ARBITRATORS.

(Contracting parties, only 122 of the beautiful countries on the planet... https://pca-cpa.org/en/about/introdu...cting-parties/)

Anyway, let's continue with the request... we've now established a panel of arbitrators who are pretty much international. Let's see what this request is going to be...

Article 178

Temporary remedies in case of non-compliance

1. If the arbitration panel rules [...] that the respondent has failed to comply with the arbitration panel ruling [...], at the request of the complainant it may impose a lump sum or penalty payment to be paid to the complainant. [...]

So, while I feel filthy everytime I have to respond to colossally dumb shit, sometimes it's worth watching the humiliation of someone talk out of their ass and missing the mark so completely, he's not even hitting the right continent.

2 minutes. After reading that outrageous claim, it took me 2 minutes to a) realise it's bullshit because that's an obvious loophole an elementary school kid could see through, b) look at the actual text and come up with how it actually works. You could have done this yourself Dribs, but as usual, you prefer to be schooled.

I'm sure you'll come up with some fantastic pseudo argument from the only sources you seem to value, the Sun, the Daily Fail, the Telegraph or some other nonsense comedy paper that entertains its readers with boobs in between their three line paragraphs to retain the little attention span their readership has.

[zealo]

Nations break agreements and deals almost as often as humans break wind. It's really no biggie. The ultimate penalty and consequence for such a transgression is as follows...

The EU can request that the UK is fined if the Government refuses to comply.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/14...rn-ireland-spt

UK answer? Request denied. Nothing, another brexit benefit, the EU can do about it.

That sort of request for a fine is just a warning shot to the UK government, you do realise that, yes?

The EU has ways of sanctioning Britain that does not require the cooperation of Westminster in it.

[Crispin]

Nations break agreements and deals almost as often as humans break wind. It's really no biggie. The ultimate penalty and consequence for such a transgression is as follows...

The EU can request that the UK is fined if the Government refuses to comply.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/14...rn-ireland-spt

UK answer? Request denied. Nothing, another brexit benefit, the EU can do about it.

Odd how you think that “don’t trust us!” Will play out to yoir benefit. Any country worth its salt, does not break treaties like humans break wind, what a stupid statement.

You’re walking down the path of Russia, which got them to a point where no one trusts them. You’ll have to accept that to the EU, the UK is now nothing more but another Turkey, or well Russia with the way you do deals in bad faith.

[Thrundi]

You’ll have to accept that to the EU, the UK is now nothing more but another Turkey, or well Russia with the way you do deals in bad faith.

And in a completely unforeseen plot twist, dribbles is revealed to be a russian troll instead of an english mouthbreather

[Crispin]

And in a completely unforeseen plot twist, dribbles is revealed to be a russian troll instead of an english mouthbreather

Well if it walks and talks like one...

[Kallisto]

Well if it walks and talks like one...

Unfortunately, when it comes to extreme brexiteer you really can't tell. These people offline still act like dribbles does online.

[dribbles]

<snip>The UK doesn't get to reject jack shit. It's the International Bureau of the Permanent Court of Arbitration: https://pca-cpa.org/en/about/structu...tional-bureau/

Who's that? Glad you asked. <snip>

When a domestic court sends me a 100 quid fine for speeding as an example, if I choose to ignore it by throwing it in the dustbin sooner or later the UK court will enforce collection of that penalty from me by whatever means necessary. If your obscure EU based international court of arbitration makes a ruling against the UK and imposes a penalty what will they do if the UK just bins their ruling? Any court that is ineffectual and has no power to enforce can be safely ignored surely? I think you are making my argument for me for that is what the UK will do.

The UK has nothing to worry about as the court you reference has not appeared able to enforce any of its judgements against any reluctant nation in its history. Certainly not against one of the worlds great powers like the UK is...

Unfortunately, when it comes to extreme brexiteer you really can't tell. These people offline still act like dribbles does online.

I state the quite reasonable UK position that it is not our responsibility to uphold EU law on sovereign UK territory, how is that extreme? It is the EU single market and it is for them to protect it however they see fit where they are able. My understanding as reported this weekend from an EU source is that if the UK are refusing to police the UK/NI sea border then it must be moved somewhere else. Obviously there cant be a land border, cos GFA, so most likely to the Celtic Sea where checks can be done on goods between France and Ireland.

"Member states are very serious about the internal market," says the diplomat, "and if there's a loophole in Northern Ireland which is too big,
then of course something might happen on the Irish crossing between Rosslare and Cherbourg."

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2021/0305/1201287-ni-protocol-analysis/

If that EU idea goes ahead it effectively proposes that Ireland becomes a part of the UK again. Ok then, fine by me and it certainly solves the border problem.

The EU28 becomes 27 becomes 26 and so on... well done eurochums, told you the EU empire would fall apart and now it seems even the EU itself are beginning to think like me.

[Crispin]

When a domestic court sends me a 100 quid fine for speeding as an example, if I choose to ignore it by throwing it in the dustbin sooner or later the UK court will enforce collection of that penalty from me by whatever means necessary. If your obscure EU based international court of arbitration makes a ruling against the UK and imposes a penalty what will they do if the UK just bins their ruling? Any court that is ineffectual and has no power to enforce can be safely ignored surely? I think you are making my argument for me for that is what the UK will do.

The UK has nothing to worry about as the court you reference has not appeared able to enforce any of its judgements against any reluctant nation in its history. Certainly not against one of the worlds great powers like the UK is...


I state the quite reasonable UK position that it is not our responsibility to uphold EU law on sovereign UK territory, how is that extreme? It is the EU single market and it is for them to protect it however they see fit where they are able. My understanding as reported this weekend from an EU source is that if the UK are refusing to police the UK/NI sea border then it must be moved somewhere else. Obviously there cant be a land border, cos GFA, so most likely to the Celtic Sea where checks can be done on goods between France and Ireland.

"Member states are very serious about the internal market," says the diplomat, "and if there's a loophole in Northern Ireland which is too big,
then of course something might happen on the Irish crossing between Rosslare and Cherbourg."

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2021/0305/1201287-ni-protocol-analysis/

If that EU idea goes ahead it effectively proposes that Ireland becomes a part of the UK again. Ok then, fine by me and it certainly solves the border problem.

The EU28 becomes 27 becomes 26 and so on... well done eurochums, told you the EU empire would fall apart and now it seems even the EU itself are beginning to think like me.

Like the devil reads the bible huh. Quite how you're grasping for the EU to fail, while it won't. Yet Scotland wants to leave the UK and NI is effectively part of the EU.

I know you rarely read articles you link, but I'll give you a hand, and point out this part

a furious Simon Coveney said Britain was no longer a reliable partner

You seem to have a hard time understanding, that Boris signed up for the current situation, it was never forced upon the UK. Also the UK decided to leave the EU, so figure out how to honor the GFA while "taking back control of our borders". You did not think this whole brexit idea through. The EU is not going to put up a border, between Ireland and the continent.

Also the EU does have options, tearing the crappy trade deal apart is one option, sanctions is another. You fail to grasp that at this point, the UK is merely a new Turkey, but with politicians that are idiots instead of borderline authoritarian.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

When a domestic court sends me a 100 quid fine for speeding as an example, if I choose to ignore it by throwing it in the dustbin sooner or later the UK court will enforce collection of that penalty from me by whatever means necessary. If your obscure EU based international court of arbitration makes a ruling against the UK and imposes a penalty what will they do if the UK just bins their ruling? Any court that is ineffectual and has no power to enforce can be safely ignored surely? I think you are making my argument for me for that is what the UK will do.

The UK has nothing to worry about as the court you reference has not appeared able to enforce any of its judgements against any reluctant nation in its history. Certainly not against one of the worlds great powers like the UK is...

Have you heard of "trade sanctions"?

[Forogil]

Not surprised that you don't know what you're talking about. But for the benefit of the intelligent people in this thread... let's go through this, shall we?

UK-EU Withdrawal Agreement:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...EN#d1e8217-1-1

As I understand that is correct if the uk violates the WA.

But if the uk violates the post brexit trade-deal, then it seems the following establishes the arbitration panel
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...20%3A443%3ATOC

There might also be other deals that the uk breaks with different ways of handling disputes.

However, the outcome will be similar - except for one minor detail: The EU-uk trade and cooperation agreement (TCA) is only provisionally applied as the EU parliament hasn't signed it yet. If the uk starts breaking the deal before the ink is even on the paper, then I would believe the likely conclusion is that the uk in fact crashes out of the EU without a deal.

The uk still having all cards in the game of Uno.

[Slant]

When a domestic court sends me a 100 quid fine for speeding as an example, if I choose to ignore it by throwing it in the dustbin sooner or later the UK court will enforce collection of that penalty from me by whatever means necessary. If your obscure EU based international court of arbitration makes a ruling against the UK and imposes a penalty what will they do if the UK just bins their ruling? Any court that is ineffectual and has no power to enforce can be safely ignored surely? I think you are making my argument for me for that is what the UK will do.

The UK has nothing to worry about as the court you reference has not appeared able to enforce any of its judgements against any reluctant nation in its history. Certainly not against one of the worlds great powers like the UK is...

You would be right in your own fantasy, except in the real world the UK made it UK law by signing that treaty and ratifying it. Sure, nobody else on the planet cares about that little aspect, because as you righthly point out, why would anyone else give a shit about your domestic laws. But you would be breaking UK law by breaking the international treaty. Oh, here's the misunderstanding... you think that you can change an international, bilateral treaty with a unilateral domestic UK law amendment? Uh, that's not how it works, buddy. You agreed to abide by the ruling of that international panel. You signed off on it. You ratified it. You wrote it into UK law. You are bound by it. And the only way to change it is to get the EU to agree to that change. Bilateral. Means two parties have to agree to it. Nobody forced the UK to agree to this. Nobody forced the UK to sign it. Nobody forced all the illustrious MPs to ratify it. That's all your own doing. So, yeah, you'll pay up. Why? Because your own Supreme Court will order your Government to pay up. Or, you know, follow the ruling of the panel.

How long do you want to play this? I can go on forever, mate. See, I don't even have to think hard about it. All I need is to know how law works. And unfortunately for you, I seem to have a better working knowledge of the UK legal system than you do. Bit embarassing, I know. But rest assured, I feel even more embarassed, cos I know jack shit about the UK legal system. But there you go, it's enough to school you. Again.

- - - Updated - - -

As I understand that is correct if the uk violates the WA.

But if the uk violates the post brexit trade-deal, then it seems the following establishes the arbitration panel
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...20%3A443%3ATOC

There might also be other deals that the uk breaks with different ways of handling disputes.

However, the outcome will be similar - except for one minor detail: The EU-uk trade and cooperation agreement (TCA) is only provisionally applied as the EU parliament hasn't signed it yet. If the uk starts breaking the deal before the ink is even on the paper, then I would believe the likely conclusion is that the uk in fact crashes out of the EU without a deal.

The uk still having all cards in the game of Uno.

Be that as it may, it's not going to be an all UK board of Brexiteers falling down in a fit of laughter because they read EU in the title. That was my point.

[dribbles]

You would be right in your own fantasy, except in the real world the UK made it UK law by signing that treaty and ratifying it. Sure, nobody else on the planet cares about that little aspect, because as you righthly point out, why would anyone else give a shit about your domestic laws. But you would be breaking UK law by breaking the international treaty. Oh, here's the misunderstanding... you think that you can change an international, bilateral treaty with a unilateral domestic UK law amendment? Uh, that's not how it works, buddy. You agreed to abide by the ruling of that international panel. You signed off on it. You ratified it. You wrote it into UK law. You are bound by it. And the only way to change it is to get the EU to agree to that change. Bilateral. Means two parties have to agree to it. Nobody forced the UK to agree to this. Nobody forced the UK to sign it. Nobody forced all the illustrious MPs to ratify it. That's all your own doing. So, yeah, you'll pay up. Why? Because your own Supreme Court will order your Government to pay up. Or, you know, follow the ruling of the panel.

How long do you want to play this? I can go on forever, mate. See, I don't even have to think hard about it. All I need is to know how law works. And unfortunately for you, I seem to have a better working knowledge of the UK legal system than you do. Bit embarassing, I know. But rest assured, I feel even more embarassed, cos I know jack shit about the UK legal system. But there you go, it's enough to school you. Again.

- - - Updated - - -



Be that as it may, it's not going to be an all UK board of Brexiteers falling down in a fit of laughter because they read EU in the title. That was my point.

As you say you are unaware of UK law, allow me to inform you that our Boris is currently governing the UK by decree with emergency King Henry VIII powers from the 1530's.

Any law or treaty that King Henry disagreed with back then was struck with immediate effect from the UK statute book. Our Boris is using these powers today to remove and redefine EU/UK laws that do not fit with his vision for modern post - Brexit Britain.

If he disagrees with something he signed with the EU only a couple of months ago because he changes his mind, it's gone. Nothing the EU or any court, supreme or not, anywhere in the world can do and that's sovereignty for you, like brexit it's a beautiful thing.

Perhaps the EU only now begin to understand what that means.

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/06/16/r...y-viii-powers/

[Slant]

Are you going full empire on me now? This is just pathetic trolling. I'm afraid that's so bad, I'ma have to report you out of principle.

[Gorsameth]

As you say you are unaware of UK law, allow me to inform you that our Boris is currently governing the UK by decree with emergency King Henry VIII powers from the 1530's.

Any law or treaty that King Henry disagreed with back then was struck with immediate effect from the UK statute book. Our Boris is using these powers today to remove and redefine EU/UK laws that do not fit with his vision for modern post - Brexit Britain.

If he disagrees with something he signed with the EU only a couple of months ago because he changes his mind, it's gone. Nothing the EU or any court, supreme or not, anywhere in the world can do and that's sovereignty for you, like brexit it's a beautiful thing.

Perhaps the EU only now begin to understand what that means.

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/06/16/r...y-viii-powers/

Yeah I am very sure we have explained the concept of Sovereignty to you before.

Yes the UK is free to disregard any and all treaties that they wish. The has always had this option.
But the rest of the world is just as free to isolate the UK ala North Korea in retaliation for them breaking all their treaties.

[Kallisto]

Wait are we supposed to be praising Henry 8th since Boris is superimposed over him. I mean from what I remember Henry was a bloated Tyrant who executed people on a whim for reasons up to and including his Y sperm couldn't win races in the uterus of his wives.

[Temp name]

As you say you are unaware of UK law, allow me to inform you that our Boris is currently governing the UK by decree with emergency King Henry VIII powers from the 1530's.

Any law or treaty that King Henry disagreed with back then was struck with immediate effect from the UK statute book. Our Boris is using these powers today to remove and redefine EU/UK laws that do not fit with his vision for modern post - Brexit Britain.

If he disagrees with something he signed with the EU only a couple of months ago because he changes his mind, it's gone. Nothing the EU or any court, supreme or not, anywhere in the world can do and that's sovereignty for you, like brexit it's a beautiful thing.

Perhaps the EU only now begin to understand what that means.

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/06/16/r...y-viii-powers/

[IMG]https://bylinetimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Boris-VIII-e1567521460439-430x0-c-default.jpg[/MG]

Okay, let's assume you're right, that you can unilaterally disregard any bilateral treaty you sign..

Why would anyone sign any deals with you now? Because you clearly can't be trusted to actually uphold the treaties, why should we bother making any? "but think of all the benefits" you might say. But there aren't any benefits for others if you don't have to follow what's written down.

Let's just take the most basic example. We decide to swap some money. 1000 euro for however much that is in pound sterling (according to google it's around 860). I give you euro, you give me pound sterling. we both agree that it sounds fair and give it a shake. I hand over the 1000 euro and you decide that you'd rather not give me 860 or so pound sterling and just walk off.
Anyone who sees that happening would no longer trust you, or do any kind of deals with you.

[Veggie50]

As you say you are unaware of UK law, allow me to inform you that our Boris is currently governing the UK by decree with emergency King Henry VIII powers from the 1530's.

Any law or treaty that King Henry disagreed with back then was struck with immediate effect from the UK statute book. Our Boris is using these powers today to remove and redefine EU/UK laws that do not fit with his vision for modern post - Brexit Britain.

If he disagrees with something he signed with the EU only a couple of months ago because he changes his mind, it's gone. Nothing the EU or any court, supreme or not, anywhere in the world can do and that's sovereignty for you, like brexit it's a beautiful thing.

Perhaps the EU only now begin to understand what that means.

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/06/16/r...y-viii-powers/

You’re so clueless...

Step 1) UK breaks the rules

Step 2) The agreed court condems breaking of the rules

Step 3) UK starts bleating “FU! Mah soevereignty!”

Step 4) EU starts trade embargo against UK

Step 5) UK: surprised pikachu face

[Huehuecoyotl]

As you say you are unaware of UK law, allow me to inform you that our Boris is currently governing the UK by decree with emergency King Henry VIII powers from the 1530's.

Any law or treaty that King Henry disagreed with back then was struck with immediate effect from the UK statute book. Our Boris is using these powers today to remove and redefine EU/UK laws that do not fit with his vision for modern post - Brexit Britain.

If he disagrees with something he signed with the EU only a couple of months ago because he changes his mind, it's gone. Nothing the EU or any court, supreme or not, anywhere in the world can do and that's sovereignty for you, like brexit it's a beautiful thing.

Perhaps the EU only now begin to understand what that means.

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/06/16/r...y-viii-powers/

So in the same post, you seem to believe two things:

1. EU law cannot cross international boundaries.
2. UK law CAN cross international boundaries.

I know it isn't possible to be a Brexiteer without experiencing cognitive dissonance, but managing to display it so perfectly in a single post certainly is an art-form. Did it ever cross your mind to think about both of those things at the same time while you were writing this post? Or do you just flick between the two beliefs while ignoring any consistency between them?

Boy, the next few years are going to be a series of shocks to you. Well, they would if it weren't for the fact that you just ignore reality if you don't like it.

[dribbles]

Wait are we supposed to be praising Henry 8th since Boris is superimposed over him. I mean from what I remember Henry was a bloated Tyrant who executed people on a whim for reasons up to and including his Y sperm couldn't win races in the uterus of his wives.

King Henry VIII was the original Brexiteer who oversaw Brexit V 1.0. The powers he enacted to remove undue influence of European Rome from Britain in the 1500's are the very same ones Boris Johnson is using today to do the same with Brussels 500 years later.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...reak-with-rome

It's all I was explaining to someone who mistakenly thought the courts of today could stop him. They can't, not EU ones and not UK supreme ones. I'm sincerely trying to be helpful here eurochums...

[Dhrizzle]

This is basically the government pissing all over Parliamentary sovereignty, I can only assume that Brexit supporters who wanted to make sure the EU didn't undermine UK democratic principles are livid about this.