The Brexit aftermath thread

[Mittens]

You mean apart from not being part of the eurozone? Yeah.



Iceland had a balanced export/import economy to fall back on, greece isn't exporting all too much and therefore defaulting wouldn't have helped because they couldn't start exporting cheaper goods because they were importing double/triple the amount they were exporting for at least a decade.

Ever tried to buy goods with a useless currency?

Also the lack of tight capital controls are the problem that started all of this shit, so when the EU demands them it's bad but if Greece defaulted and did it themselves it's good?

Moot point considering that when the currency depreciates, exports become more competitive. Something that is not happening due to the Euro.

As a side note: I should mention that the humane solution would've been for Germany and other countries to forgive Greece's debt when it became obvious they are in no shape of ever repaying them, you know like the US did with Latin America and have the burden be carried by the banks.

[Acidbaron]

Moot point considering that when the currency depreciates, exports become more competitive. Something that is not happening due to the Euro.

As a side note: I should mention that the humane solution would've been for Germany and other countries to forgive Greece's debt when it became obvious they are in no shape of ever repaying them, you know like the US did with Latin America and have the burden be carried by the banks.

Debt is being relieved in part every time structural changes are taking effect that the last 10 years are not repeated, the more you know eh?

Also look at Greece their economy before making silly statements like "their export becomes more competitive" or i'll add in "investors become more interested", Greece had made a wasteland of their economy due to failed political policy making for more than a decade.

I bet you can't even name one big export from Greece before actually looking it up on google. You really don't learn from your ignorance do you?

[Mayhem]

Moot point considering that when the currency depreciates, exports become more competitive. Something that is not happening due to the Euro.

And imports would become more expensive because of a volatile currency, but i see why you're only looking at one side of the coin.

[Dhrizzle]

Isn't Gibraltar a land border as well? I'll admit to not being 100% up to speed on the situation there, but I did think it was attached to Spain?

Gibraltar isn't part of the UK, as one of the British Overseas Colonies it's a mostly independent micro-nation that depends on us for defense and foreign representation.

[Dhrizzle]

Isn't it's access to the single market linked to UK's membership though? I would assume that a hard Brexit would mean that Gibraltar would be out of the single market by default.

Most likely, though Gibraltar would have more wiggle room than NI I expect Spain would like to impose some conditions if Gibraltar were to join the EU (or EU institutions) independent of the UK. Whatever form a deal might take it would be less complicated than any involving Northern Ireland as free movement of people and goods to the BOTs is not a given as it is between member nations of the UK.

[Slant]

Most likely, though Gibraltar would have more wiggle room than NI I expect Spain would like to impose some conditions if Gibraltar were to join the EU (or EU institutions) independent of the UK. Whatever form a deal might take it would be less complicated than any involving Northern Ireland as free movement of people and goods to the BOTs is not a given as it is between member nations of the UK.

Also, there's no GFA standing in the way of a solution. The real problem with the UK is that the UK wants hard borders against the EU but at the same time they want a backdoor wide open to the EU. That's really what's puzzling everyone in the EU (and this thread). We're fine with either solution, but please, they should stop that bullshit about being special and everyone in Europe having to move around just to make them happy because they can't think two steps ahead like normal politicians.

[Deleted]

On one side it's the long awaited downfall for our enemy of times past (Dutch-Anglo wars and the concentration camps for Dutch settlers in South Africa) and on the other side it's a symbol for the decline of Western powers.

Not sure how to feel about the UK destroying itself in record time anymore. From a worldwide empire to a patch of land in the ocean within a 100 years is quite a feat though.

[Dhrizzle]

Also, there's no GFA standing in the way of a solution. The real problem with the UK is that the UK wants hard borders against the EU but at the same time they want a backdoor wide open to the EU. That's really what's puzzling everyone in the EU (and this thread). We're fine with either solution, but please, they should stop that bullshit about being special and everyone in Europe having to move around just to make them happy because they can't think two steps ahead like normal politicians.

The best solution, or at least what I see as the only workable solution (short of a soft Brexit that makes the border no more relevant than today,) would be to move the EU border to the Irish sea and keep NI in the customs union to allow free movement of trade and people. I doubt it would make everyone in NI and the rest of the UK happy but I can't see any other way of having any sort of hard Brexit whilst maintaining the GFA. Biggest hurdle to this would be the fact the government is currently relying on the DUP to prop them up and any sort of separation between NI and the rest of the UK would be crossing a big red line for them.

[Iphie]

Gibraltar isn't part of the UK, as one of the British Overseas Colonies it's a mostly independent micro-nation that depends on us for defense and foreign representation.

Right, this is like the Isle of Wight and Man? The British realm is so confusing, some parts are part of the UK, others aren't but it's all one country, but then it's actually 4 countries...

[Kronik85]

Right, this is like the Isle of Wight and Man? The British realm is so confusing, some parts are part of the UK, others aren't but it's all one country, but then it's actually 4 countries...

Great Britain = England, Scotland and Wales
The United Kijgdom = England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland
Tax Haven = Isle of Man, Jersey etc.

[ranzino]

NI and RoI border is also the ONLY one on land UK has and they never thought about ? bwahahaha

"you are not prepared !!!"
/illidan

[Slant]

The best solution, or at least what I see as the only workable solution (short of a soft Brexit that makes the border no more relevant than today,) would be to move the EU border to the Irish sea and keep NI in the customs union to allow free movement of trade and people. I doubt it would make everyone in NI and the rest of the UK happy but I can't see any other way of having any sort of hard Brexit whilst maintaining the GFA. Biggest hurdle to this would be the fact the government is currently relying on the DUP to prop them up and any sort of separation between NI and the rest of the UK would be crossing a big red line for them.

Britain already ruled that option out categorically. So yeah, they've thought about it and rejected it right out the gate. This is really a fucked up situation. When I realised this conundrum existed shortly after the Brexit referendum, I was shaking my head so hard, my neck still hurt two days later.

[Deleted]

Britain already ruled that option out categorically. So yeah, they've thought about it and rejected it right out the gate. This is really a fucked up situation. When I realised this conundrum existed shortly after the Brexit referendum, I was shaking my head so hard, my neck still hurt two days later.

well there are two competing imperatives, one the one hand the brexiteers desire to reconstitute their own regulatory and customs unit, and on the other their desire to no create a border with the Irish (i.e the EU regulatory and customs unit), this is of course impossible to reconcile, but reality has never been high in demand with them.

[Acidbaron]

The UK government finally sat down today to debate about the exit law. Only almost a year in!

Knowing that quick reaction time, they believe they can easily deal with a no deal scenario what means custom requests go up from 55 mill to 255 mill without issues. 5 times to work load no problem for government officials!

[Dhrizzle]

Right, this is like the Isle of Wight and Man? The British realm is so confusing, some parts are part of the UK, others aren't but it's all one country, but then it's actually 4 countries...

You're thinking of the Crown Dependencies - Isle of Man in the Irish Sea and Jersey and Guernsey in the channel (but not the Isle of Wight which is wholly part of England.) Gibraltar is one of the British Overseas Territories (like the Falklands, British Virgin Isles, St. Helena and about a dozen other places.) Their relationship to the UK is subtly different.

Also, let's not throw shade at our unusual geopolitical arrangements when the Dutch Caribbean has 3 cities that are part of the Netherlands, and 3 countries that, along with the country the Netherlands, constitute the kingdom of the Netherlands.

[Iphie]

You're thinking of the Crown Dependencies - Isle of Man in the Irish Sea and Jersey and Guernsey in the channel (but not the Isle of Wight which is wholly part of England.) Gibraltar is one of the British Overseas Territories (like the Falklands, British Virgin Isles, St. Helena and about a dozen other places.) Their relationship to the UK is subtly different.

Also, let's not throw shade at our unusual geopolitical arrangements when the Dutch Caribbean has 3 cities that are part of the Netherlands, and 3 countries that, along with the country the Netherlands, constitute the kingdom of the Netherlands.

It is true that our kingdom is unusual as well, Bonaire, Saba and St. Eustatius are municipalities. Aruba, Curaçao and St. Maarten are countries within the kingdom. The first three vote with the rest of us and have the same rights when it comes to voting, the latter have their own elections, but all are somehow part of the EU.. My confusion comes from all the exemptions and rights or lack thereof when it comes to the UK. From what I understood from last year's referendum some people were not allowed to vote despite being british because they lived in the wrong place. I don't think that would happen here.

But I suppose it's always a bit more confusing to look in from the outside than to grow up in it. Thank you for giving a bit of an explanation.

[Mormolyce]

Right, this is like the Isle of Wight and Man? The British realm is so confusing, some parts are part of the UK, others aren't but it's all one country, but then it's actually 4 countries...

It's perfectly simple, boy!


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Termin..._British_Isles

...Not including the thousands of smaller islands...

P.S. I think the Isle of Wight is part of England, unlike the Isle of Man which is a crown dependency.

[Deleted]

I honestly don't understand why this has to be so difficult. The UK can join the Custom's Union; the primary issue of the Brexit camp is free movement of people, not goods (even though it is vastly more advantageous for the EU since we have a significant net export of goods to the UK and the only thing we import to a significant degree is services which are not covered). And then they have a border between Northern Ireland and the RoI that is open for any UK or RoI citizen and the rest have to go through checks. It's not a soft Brexit since they can stop accepting EU citizens into the UK. Then they can discuss custom rates with the EU as a whole.

If they join the customs union, they will continue to have their trade policy run by the EU, and that would mean that their future as a leading world free trader would be undercut - Of course, this is ludicrous on the face of it to begin with but you know, Brexiteers.

[Deleted]

I think most Brexiters are mostly focused on kicking Polish workers who took their jobs, and then not having healthcare because the NHS won't work without nurses and doctors from south and eastern Europe. But I guess the curvature of bananas is also a boogeyman . . . Or the right to die on shitty cars from India.

You are confusing the voters with the Torie's who championed this for 40 years.

[Deleted]

I think most Brexiters are mostly focused on kicking Polish workers who took their jobs, and then not having healthcare because the NHS won't work without nurses and doctors from south and eastern Europe. But I guess the curvature of bananas is also a boogeyman . . . Or the right to die on shitty cars from India.

Not to dismiss your point, but from my personal experience the majority of Doctors and Nurses don't come from Europe, but from the Commonwealth, where immigration will still carry on the same as far as i'm aware.

I don't think even the most hardline Brexiteer has an issue with Doctors and Nurses coming over, that's rather the point, and i'm not going to lie, it's a point I sort of agree with, in that bringing in skilled workers is not the problem, but rather unskilled workers.