The Brexit aftermath thread

[JohnBrown1917]

Except Nigel Farage MEP has just been re-elected yet again. If yesterdays results were mirrored in a General Election and as the Peterborough by-election in a few days time predicts you would see something like this.

[IMG]https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/05/27/13/14014312-7074937-image-m-52_1558960618533.jpg[MG]

His implantation in cabinet would be enabling democracy, surely something you support? Bring on that General election I say.

lol how deluded are you to think that the GE would turn out like this?

[Slant]

I mean I get what you are saying but then Germany should try to change the relevant treaty I guess?

I'm pretty certain you can't just change the ratio like you said. That doesn't sound like something that should be possible.

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http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/e...ctions-in-2019

I think it passed already?

Ah, ok. So we're both right. And if they sell this as diving remaining seats up to "underrepresented" countries, that's an argument I could get behind. If it is done within reason.

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Except Nigel Farage MEP has just been re-elected yet again. If yesterdays results were mirrored in a General Election and as the Peterborough by-election in a few days time predicts you would see something like this.

Farage was elected as MEP. Not MP. I mean, I get that the retard level of certain posters is reaching astronomical scales by now, but really... if I take your reasoning, I can skullfuck any of your previous arguments simply by saying "How's the EU undemocratic? Practically anybody in there is elected.... well, somewhere."

Dunce...

[Xarkan]

Ah, ok. So we're both right. And if they sell this as diving remaining seats up to "underrepresented" countries, that's an argument I could get behind. If it is done within reason.

But did this not already happen?

Is the reason Denmark gets another seat when Britain leaves not exactly due to this? [heck the danish party getting the seat is supposedly known]

Or are people trying to distribute even more seats?

[dribbles]

lol how deluded are you to think that the GE would turn out like this?

Well in 10 days time we will have exact data as to how Westminster elections would compare to euro election results. Peterborough Voted almost 40% for the Brexit party.

[Xarkan]

The 46 seats left could in theory be redistributed but in practice they won't because of the cap imo. 705 is just fine anyway.

I think i am talking about the 27 not the 46..

[Kronik85]

And pretty much everyone in Labour has now gone with pushing for second vote with an emphasis on remain after last night so.

Brexit parties 44%
Remain parties 54.5%

According to your own logic.

I think what we saw last night was a rejection of a deal and currently I'm looking at the breakdown as follows.

WTO UKIP/Brexit Party 35%
Second Ref Greens/Lib Dems/CHUK/SNP/Cymru 40%
Leave with Deal Cons/Lab 23%

It's the middle ground that was the casualty last night and the real fight is going to be winning over that 23% to either position.

[Slant]

I mean some fast rough math shows that France will now have one seat per 848k while Germany has one per 863k. It's not that big of a stretch.

So, how's France getting more seats then?

[dribbles]

I think what we saw last night was a rejection of a deal and currently I'm looking at the breakdown as follows.

WTO UKIP/Brexit Party 35%
Second Ref Greens/Lib Dems/CHUK/SNP/Cymru 40%
Leave with Deal Cons/Lab 23%

It's the middle ground that was the casualty last night and the real fight is going to be winning over that 23% to either position.

So we have a consensus on here?

58% leave in some manner (majority of leavers for WTO no deal)
40% remain/2nd ref

Thanks so much guys, I win?

[Slant]

They are not at the cap yet.

That's not a good enough reason, lol... you can't just cap one country and increase another country's seats if it's already imbalanced. Is that really their argument? Wow, way to feed oil into the fire of the crowd that whinges about the EU being undemocratic. :P

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Thanks so much guys, I win?

Yeah, you win the Shitposter of the Year award for 3 years consecutively.

[Pannonian]

That's not a good enough reason, lol... you can't just cap one country and increase another country's seats if it's already imbalanced. Is that really their argument? Wow, way to feed oil into the fire of the crowd that whinges about the EU being undemocratic. :P

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Yeah, you win the Shitposter of the Year award for 3 years consecutively.

Afaik, it should balance out. Germany is already at the cap, and population above the cap is not taken into account. Now french also has reached the cap, but not with as much spare as germany already has. Given time (and if both countries population rises, which i think is true for both?!) it will balance out.

[Xarkan]

Thanks so much guys, I win?

No, you loose

We all do

[SwagOn]

That's not a good enough reason, lol... you can't just cap one country and increase another country's seats if it's already imbalanced. Is that really their argument? Wow, way to feed oil into the fire of the crowd that whinges about the EU being undemocratic. :P

It's pretty much the same as the cap for the Bundesrat, where big states still only get 6 votes. The cap ensures that there is no country to "rule them all", as all member states come toghether as equals. German MEPs are still by far the largest group. 16x larger than e.g. Estonia.

[Dhrizzle]

Look. I’m not British. Or even European.

But if I were a Brexiteer, and seeing the results of the newest election, and knowing that voter turnout was dismally low in pro-Brexit areas, I would, against my principles (since a people’s vote already happened) welcome a second referendum and put an end to this once and for all. I’m pretty confident that results will again be, not an overwhelming, but a definitive leave.

With a second referendum it's not just about Leave/Remain but seeing what people prefer out of No Deal/Hard/Soft/Remain. Even if the majority are still in favour of Leaving I strongly suspect that a moderate position including a Customs Union would be more palatable to the majority.

[Acidbaron]

Basically this...

These elections arent even considered the real elections in most European countries. The votes are always a lot more polarized than in the main elections.

Yeah but a lot of people are fucking stupid, so it's not really surprising that they don't think this is real and will impact them.

[Mayhem]

With a second referendum it's not just about Leave/Remain but seeing what people prefer out of No Deal/Hard/Soft/Remain. Even if the majority are still in favour of Leaving I strongly suspect that a moderate position including a Customs Union would be more palatable to the majority.

If they have a second referendum I expect them to have options on the table that are known to not work with the EU and or can't be negotiated within the set time limit.

[Slant]

Afaik, it should balance out. Germany is already at the cap, and population above the cap is not taken into account. Now french also has reached the cap, but not with as much spare as germany already has. Given time (and if both countries population rises, which i think is true for both?!) it will balance out.

"population is not taken into account" is a really, really dangerous concept.

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Ultimately the issue is only with Germany. If we kept the minimum cap (6 seats) but had no upper cap (96) I think Germany would have like 109 seats. I think the original formula is not directly proportional anyway; the treaties itself call it degressive proportionality. I'll have to look around to see if I can find how it is calculated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apport...ean_Parliament

And there is no formula. In classic EU manner, it is essentially decided unanimously after negotiations.

Psshh... oh well, it could be worse. We could be the idiots crashing out of the EU.

[Mayhem]

"population is not taken into account" is a really, really dangerous concept.

Not really, considering a minimum number of seats is the very same thing just on the opposite end.

[Slant]

It's pretty much the same as the cap for the Bundesrat, where big states still only get 6 votes. The cap ensures that there is no country to "rule them all", as all member states come toghether as equals. German MEPs are still by far the largest group. 16x larger than e.g. Estonia.

And yet, Estonia has a veto on anything concerning the treaties. Oh well, this is a discussion that is as old as the EC/EU. Fun to debate, but ultimately it seems to work out somehow.

[Xarkan]

If they have a second referendum I expect them to have options on the table that are known to not work with the EU and or can't be negotiated within the set time limit.

Doesnt matter

Even if it was entirely possible to negotiate it in time and the EU was already on board

The UK would still incompetently mess it up

[Mayhem]

And yet, Estonia has a veto on anything concerning the treaties. Oh well, this is a discussion that is as old as the EC/EU. Fun to debate, but ultimately it seems to work out somehow.

Of course, so that the larger countries can't team up to rule everything and ignore the needs of the smaller ones.