The Brexit aftermath thread

[Jessicka]

will not allow the EU to do so either.

The UK does not get a choice on this matter.

If people don't agree with that, look at this 5 minute video, how are you going to fix this mans problem who has his kitchen in the UK and lounge in the EU? An EU border force in his hallway to check his papers every time he wants to make a cup of tea?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...oose-1.4002947

Ridiculous. EU mandarins who say they are going to put up a hard border are so out of touch with reality and with the people they supposedly govern it is questionable if they still have all their marbles.

Still thinking anything the UK does in the world matters. In a couple of months, maybe you'll realise Putin was right.

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Facial recognition is improving pretty rapidly; don't need to show passport for that one.

Facial recognition might be the utopia for Fascists, but thankfully its terrible and outlawed in the EU for such purposes.

[ati87]

Facial recognition is improving pretty rapidly; don't need to show passport for that one.

Fictional technology that don't exist is not an argument.
I could also point out that space travel is improving and that at some point the idea of borders is a silly concept.

[Jessicka]

Fictional technology that don't exist is not an argument.
I could also point out that space travel is improving and that at some point the idea of borders is a silly concept.

It's amusing in that not only is it terrible and easily circumvented, that even if it did work, he thinks such a setup would be ready to go in 2 months. That goes for literally any other 'technological' solution to border issues.

This is why the backstop existed in concept, because we all know realistically there is no technological alternative that would be ready to roll out in a sensible timeframe. The whole point is to give time to develop such solutions.

[Slant]

It's amusing in that not only is it terrible and easily circumvented, that even if it did work, he thinks such a setup would be ready to go in 2 months. That goes for literally any other 'technological' solution to border issues.

This is why the backstop existed in concept, because we all know realistically there is no technological alternative that would be ready to roll out in a sensible timeframe. The whole point is to give time to develop such solutions.

The EU wouldn't support any solution that includes facial recognition. That would necessitate mass data storage of biometric data. That's such a deep red flag for the EU privacy guardians, they would probably be dying from laughter on the spot if someone ever came up with the idea.

[Mayhem]

Facial recognition is improving pretty rapidly; don't need to show passport for that one.

Where are they going to get the required information from?

[Pann]

It looks like Boris is set to send the Tories into war...

...against themselves!

https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status...19775230922752

[Shalcker]

Fictional technology that don't exist is not an argument.

They were already testing it last year... there is nothing fictional about it.

We had it working in Russia for FIFA World Cup, caught a few criminals along the way.

I could also point out that space travel is improving and that at some point the idea of borders is a silly concept.

As far as i understand it borders as something you actively defend and check papers on are actually relatively new concept (i don't think even 19th century went that far); for the most of history "borders" were largely based on "who are you taxed by". You'd run "early warning" if you expected raids from particular direction and send response force to counter, not patrol them constantly, and you would issue papers and permits to taxed citizens for specific tasks.

Even USSR, "epitome" of totalitarian control, didn't have passports for large part of it's population until about 1960-1970s.

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Where are they going to get the required information from?

"Not in our base? Let's stop him for a chat".

It can be filled quite rapidly.

[Elegiac]

"Not in our base? Let's stop him for a chat".

It can be filled quite rapidly.

The only valid reply becomes “Where’s your warrant?”

But please, don’t let me interrupt your advocacy of a neo-Soviet style police state.

[Shalcker]

It's amusing in that not only is it terrible and easily circumvented, that even if it did work, he thinks such a setup would be ready to go in 2 months. That goes for literally any other 'technological' solution to border issues.

It's not actually easily circumvented.

Sure, you can escape one camera if you know it's there, but you're wouldn't know where each of them can be found; or you can wear life-like mask for eternity, but that also isn't that easy.

This is why the backstop existed in concept, because we all know realistically there is no technological alternative that would be ready to roll out in a sensible timeframe. The whole point is to give time to develop such solutions.

Alternative is no hard border, obviously - given that noone wants it.

Till the moment technological solution is ready and well-tested.

You can try enforcing it past Ireland (that is, on Ireland-EU connection), or you can just ignore it overall and only persecute most obvious cases.

[Elegiac]

Sunglasses and a hat. Boom, circumvented.

Make sure to take prospective immigrants swimming on the first date, too.

Incidentally, Juggalo face paint also disrupts facial recognition.

[Shalcker]

The only valid reply becomes “Where’s your warrant?”

But please, don’t let me interrupt your advocacy of a neo-Soviet style police state.

It's so nice that you can just look this stuff up.

Police powers to stop and search: your rights
The police can stop and question you at any time - they can search you depending on the situation.

A police community support officer (PCSO) must be in uniform when they stop and question you. A police officer doesn’t always have to be in uniform but if they’re not wearing uniform they must show you their warrant card.

Stop and question: police powers

A police officer might stop you and ask:

• what your name is
• what you’re doing in the area
• where you’re going

You don’t have to stop or answer any questions. If you don’t and there’s no other reason to suspect you, then this alone can’t be used as a reason to search or arrest you.

They already can ask you anytime.

[Elegiac]

This is a huge derailment, and while the technology of facial recognition might be getting on point, what isn't on point is the ability to process large quantities of video data and matching it against gigantic databases yet, especially not streaming live data. It's simply not viable technology on great scale yet and the videos that are going around on the internet about "chinese government showcasing it in metro stations" is a hoax.

Can we also talk about how extant facial recognition has been definitively demonstrated to be influenced by programmer bias, especially when it comes to non-male and non-Caucasian presenting faces? A "soft border" as described either requires technology that doesn't exist yet, or a massive breach in civil liberties by using unlawfully obtained data and then relying on a system with known biases.

The "soft border" has and always will remain a unicorn designed to appeal to less radical Brexiteers.

[draykorinee]

What a terrible proposition, so clamouring for a 1984 thanks.

[Elegiac]

What a terrible proposition, so clamouring for a 1984 thanks.

It would be mildly ironic if England turned into a North Korea-esque state since part of the premise of Nineteen Eighty Four is that the protagonist doesn't know if Oceania actually covers the stated territories, is a one world state faking a cold war, or just the UK turning into a police state and pretending the rest of the world is the same.

I say England because I suspect that Scotland, Wales, and NI would probably break off before such an eventuality.

[Jessicka]

The EU wouldn't support any solution that includes facial recognition. That would necessitate mass data storage of biometric data. That's such a deep red flag for the EU privacy guardians, they would probably be dying from laughter on the spot if someone ever came up with the idea.

I don't think they'd be laughing, I think they'd be terrified. Rightly.

[Huehuecoyotl]

It looks like Boris is set to send the Tories into war...

...against themselves!

https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status...19775230922752

That's his gameplan? To deselect all those opposed to him and replace him with more far right yes men?

To be honest, I can't see him going through with this. It would damage him for any election that did follow and could destroy the party completely. And there is no guarantee the party apparatus would go along with it anyway; he could end up with those people still standing as Tories and undermining him. This feels to me like just another Boris bluff. He wants to look like a strong leader, but he hasn't ever learned the difference between a strong leader and a bully.

Hopefully the pro EU Tories will react to this in the same way that they EU have. Then he will be backing down and looking weak on two fronts instead of one.

[luc54]

Can we also talk about how extant facial recognition has been definitively demonstrated to be influenced by programmer bias, especially when it comes to non-male and non-Caucasian presenting faces? A "soft border" as described either requires technology that doesn't exist yet, or a massive breach in civil liberties by using unlawfully obtained data and then relying on a system with known biases.

The "soft border" has and always will remain a unicorn designed to appeal to less radical Brexiteers.

The problem with facial recognition isn't some nonsense bias by programmers but data that's used by neural networks to learn faces. If you use certain type of faces to teach neural network, of course it will have harder time to recognise them. They might not have access to diverse range of human faces used to teach them and have to use their own ones which obviousely is going to skew it as it won't be as diverse.

[Slant]

I don't think they'd be laughing, I think they'd be terrified. Rightly.

Well, no, because they can just say no. Hence the laughter. Anyone on this planet should know by now how tight the EU is on EU citizens' privacy rights. But you are right, of course, it is a terrifying idea if it ever came to be.

[luc54]

Well, no, because they can just say no. Hence the laughter. Anyone on this planet should know by now how tight the EU is on EU citizens' privacy rights. But you are right, of course, it is a terrifying idea if it ever came to be.

UK might do it, if they leave EU that is. They don't seem to give shit about their citizens rights. That's one of the reasons some of them want to leave after all.

[Elegiac]

The problem with facial recognition isn't some nonsense bias by programmers

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2...ay-transgender

Yes I'm sure the fact that these systems just happen to work exclusively for caucasian male faces totally demonstrates it's just a data range issue.

Back in reality, even if such systems weren't biased keeping a database of such biometric data shouldn't be something we encourage.