Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Skroe]

Odd, considering he's not exactly a novel phenomenon.

Surely you remember the type of rabid patriot in the post-9/11 era that went into a rage at the barest hint that America might not be god's own country and felt the need to spin, deflect, and outright lie to shut down any opposition? This is that thing, just in a different setting.

Oh yeah. I was that. Ol' Lake Afghanistan and all that nonsense.


And then I grew up and find that whole time incredibly embarrassing. Of course I was 18 and didn't know shit about shit back then.

[Elegiac]

Oh yeah. I was that. Ol' Lake Afghanistan and all that nonsense.

And then I grew up and find that whole time incredibly embarrassing. Of course I was 18 and didn't know shit about shit back then.

Funny you should mention Afghanistan, because here's my unsolicited outsider's perspective.

I was still living in Australia at the time, and being my viscerally Labor self was opposed to Afghanistan from the outset as a thoughtless and reactionary lashing out - but that didn't mean we didn't get why Americans were eager to strike back at something, just that it was definitely a decision made with the gut rather than with the head. So I don't hold it over anyone's head for supporting Afghanistan at the time, nor do I think people who did support it shouldn't be forgiven for a human error.

Iraq, however, is a beast of a different stripe.

[Kujako]

Off topic, but whenever someone brings up 9/11, it just pisses me off, because 9/11 is now a one day a year holiday for a bunch of fake patriots to tell everyone how they are better at being Americans, while they attack anyone who thinks differently then them the other 364 days a year. Not to mention, much of what these people believe is simply anti american at this point.

"Never forget"- Goes on to attack children who were in a mass shooting, patriots indeed.

You insensitive clod! 9/11 was an attack on the poor defenseless money, not good for nothing children!

[Elegiac]

Off topic, but whenever someone brings up 9/11, it just pisses me off, because 9/11 is now a one day a year holiday for a bunch of fake patriots to tell everyone how they are better at being Americans, while they attack anyone who thinks differently then them the other 364 days a year. Not to mention, much of what these people believe is simply anti american at this point.

"Never forget"- Goes on to attack children who were in a mass shooting, patriots indeed.

9/11 is a tricky thing to discuss because it's abundantly apparent that the American cultural sphere has yet to fully internalise it, even nearly two decades later. In many ways a lot of people are still flailing at the emergence of a new world order.

[Dacien]

So I guess Ken Starr was interviewed on a podcast, and didn't have much optimism for an obstruction case for any pardons or for attacking the investigation:

It was broad-ranging, with Isikoff and Klaidman probing along the now-familiar line of anti-Trump thinking that a president could be charged with obstruction based even on ostensibly lawful acts — such as issuing pardons to potential witnesses like Michael Flynn and Paul Manafort — if a prosecutor could credibly allege a corrupt intent.

Starr essentially rejected this proposition, theorizing that obstruction, particularly in the pardon context, would have to be based on illegal acts (such as bribery). Under the Constitution, the executive’s pardon power is plenary; it is not supposed to be judicially reviewable and the president does not need a reason to extend clemency. Therefore, Starr reasoned, we should presume that the president pardons for legitimate reasons (e.g., based on his sincere belief that the prosecution was overbearing or that the pardon petitioner was innocent) unless there is a patently criminal inducement. (The podcast recounted Clinton’s pardons of Susan McDougal and some other potential witnesses against him whom Starr had prosecuted.)


...I want to address a slightly different variation on the anti-Trump obstruction theory, pressed by the Yahoo journalists: the notion that a president may be guilty of actionable obstruction if he attempts to “delegitimize” an investigation.

The issue arises due to President Trump’s recent barrage of tweets against Special Counsel Mueller. Trump’s then-attorney, John Dowd (who has since withdrawn from his legal team), also called for an end to Mueller’s probe. Starr poured cold water on the idea that this could constitute obstruction. Recalling that he and his investigation were subjected to a relentless, often vicious delegitimation campaign by the Clinton camp, Starr observed that such attacks are protected speech in our system — lawful, even if unsavory

.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...tected-speech/

[Elegiac]

So I guess Ken Starr was interviewed on a podcast, and didn't have much optimism for an obstruction case for any pardons or for attacking the investigation:

Gee, I wonder why Ken Starr wouldn't have much optimism for an obstruction case involving a Republican.

[cubby]

So I guess Ken Starr was interviewed on a podcast, and didn't have much optimism for an obstruction case for any pardons or for attacking the investigation:.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...tected-speech/

I mean . . . seriously? Do you even know who Ken Starr is?

[Poopymonster]

Off topic, but whenever someone brings up 9/11, it just pisses me off, because 9/11 is now a one day a year holiday for a bunch of fake patriots to tell everyone how they are better at being Americans, while they attack anyone who thinks differently then them the other 364 days a year. Not to mention, much of what these people believe is simply anti american at this point.

"Never forget"- Goes on to attack children who were in a mass shooting, patriots indeed.

"Never forgot" kinda pisses me off. How can you let a wound heal, when every year you rip the scab off, poke, and jab at it until it's gushing blood.

I'm gonna get heat for this one, but if you look at the 9/11 hijackings, it was a work of art. The amount of training, timing, money, resources, manpower, to coordinate and pull that off? That shit doesn't happen over night. It took years of planning and prep. Right there, that was dedication you rarely see today.

Yes, people died, I lost 2 good friends, tragic. But the whole plan and how it came together? Breath taking.

[NYC17]

So I guess Ken Starr was interviewed on a podcast, and didn't have much optimism for an obstruction case for any pardons or for attacking the investigation:

.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...tected-speech/

It's like you look for the most meaningless things and post them as if they are salient because you have nothing better to offer.

Ken Starr...

[Dacien]

It's like you look for the most meaningless things and post them as if they are salient because you have nothing better to offer.

Ken Starr...

Yeah, Ken Starr, former special counsel. You didn't like the article?

[Elegiac]

Yeah, Ken Starr, former special counsel. You didn't like the article?

I mean, aside from it being a crock of shit, sure.

[Ripster42]

Yeah, Ken Starr, former special counsel. You didn't like the article?

You do remember what happened to the statute that authorized starr's appointment right? Because congress repealed the statute (well, let it expire) he was appointed under after his investigation went off the rails and went so far abroad from the original mandate that he was widely judged to be a partisan hack using it as a political weapon instead of actually trying to seek justice.

[Elegiac]

You do remember what happened to the statute that authorized starr's appointment right? Because congress repealed the statute (well, let it expire) he was appointed under after his investigation went off the rails and went so far abroad from the original mandate that he was widely judged to be a partisan hack using it as a political weapon instead of actually trying to seek justice.

In before "but you trust Mueller so you should logically trust what a previous special counsel says".

[NYC17]

Yeah, Ken Starr, former special counsel. You didn't like the article?

Was there something worthwhile I was supposed to "like"?

[BrerBear]

Surprised no one’s mentioned it yet, but there’s an extremely good article on Vox today about the DNC / Podesta email theft and all we know about it.

The hacked emails at the center of Mueller’s Russia investigation, explained

If you’re looking for a great primer on all that’s happened, with timelines, it’s a fantastic read. Like a lot of people, I suspect the email theft will be central to upcoming charges from the investigation.

[Breccia]

The UAE is in the news a lot recently. Wonder why that is...

- - - Updated - - -

Team Trump's defense of "the Manafort investigation was out of Mueller's role" just got pimp-slapped.

The Wall Street Journal reports that Rosenstein directly and personally authorized -- directed, really -- Mueller to investigate not just Manafort's role in Russian collusion, but his role with the Ukrainian government.

Mueller decided to attach those to recently filed court documents, because Mueller knows what the hell he's doing.

So that lame-ass limp-dick IMPOTUS defense is now provably invalid.

- - - Updated - - -

Related: Mueller is looking at Roger Stone's alliance with WikiLeaks. Apparently, despite public protests, Roger Stone sent an email in Aug 2016 that he had met, dined with actually, Assange.

Stone's defense is that he was joking. Problem is, Mueller doesn't have a sense of humor.

[NYC17]

The UAE is in the news a lot recently. Wonder why that is...

- - - Updated - - -

Team Trump's defense of "the Manafort investigation was out of Mueller's role" just got pimp-slapped.

The Wall Street Journal reports that Rosenstein directly and personally authorized -- directed, really -- Mueller to investigate not just Manafort's role in Russian collusion, but his role with the Ukrainian government.

Mueller decided to attach those to recently filed court documents, because Mueller knows what the hell he's doing.

So that lame-ass limp-dick IMPOTUS defense is now provably invalid.

Which means the "conservative" media, talking heads(McCarthy), and agitators, in concert with Russian bots, will be lighting up the media and social media landscape with calls for Trump to fire Rosenstein, again.

Round and round we go.

[Breccia]

This is what it looks like when you put your own balls into a vicegrip.

Trump on Tuesday argued he has been tougher on Russia than any of his predecessors, despite frequent criticisms from lawmakers over his relationship with Russia and Vladimir Putin.

“Ideally we want to get along with Russia. Getting along with Russia is a good thing, not a bad thing. Maybe we will maybe we won’t,” Trump told reporters during a meeting with Baltic state leaders.

“Probably no one has been tougher to Russia than Donald Trump,” he added, citing investments in the U.S. military and NATO.

"Getting along with Russia would be a good thing, not a bad thing—and just about everybody's agrees to that, except very stupid people."

Yep, that's Trump using the third person for himself right there.

So, nobody's been harder on Russia than him, and also, only stupid people don't want to get along with Russia.

...

Righty-o.

Anyhow, again, Trump has put himself in this bad position. He has to defeat the idea that he's colluding with Russia, also, he signed those sanctions crying like a bitch. But, he also has to send a message to Russia that he doesn't mean it -- such as by ceding Syria, or making statements like these, claiming he wants to get along better.

With the country nobody's been harder on.

[Dontrike]

This is what it looks like when you put your own balls into a vicegrip.



Yep, that's Trump using the third person for himself right there.

So, nobody's been harder on Russia than him, and also, only stupid people don't want to get along with Russia.

...

Righty-o.

Anyhow, again, Trump has put himself in this bad position. He has to defeat the idea that he's colluding with Russia, also, he signed those sanctions crying like a bitch. But, he also has to send a message to Russia that he doesn't mean it -- such as by ceding Syria, or making statements like these, claiming he wants to get along better.

With the country nobody's been harder on.

It's like watching the opposite of a phoenix dying and then rising from the crap to do it all over again.

[Shadowferal]

Was this posted already?
First sentence handed down in Mueller probe

A London-based lawyer was ordered to serve 30 days in prison after a federal judge Tuesday handed down the first sentence in special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

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A slap on the ass..or is that wrist? Whatever. He cooperated with Mueller and this is what he got as a sentence.