Current raider mindset vs vanilla

[Shingaru]

I’m hyped bout classic but one thing I’m sure of is bosses are just going to die so quickly as the current raider mindset is like at least 10 years above where it was during classic obviously....

The sheer number of consumables that players could use during vanilla but wasn’t really ‘standard’ until late late Naxx. The fact that I think nilhilium were the first guild to incorporate that all players in the raid were flasked.

The amount of extra power a raid will have during progression with all consumables on. With voice coms being standard and communication, understanding being so high that it’s possible to have current end bosses with such tight mechanics.

I raided in vanilla as a healer and the only thing that was required of me is that I had enough mana pots/ dbm/ decursive. And my healing officer at the time told me I needed to downrank my spell. Which I figured out with him by trial and error.

By the time classic comes out the sheer volume of guides how to spec/rotation etc which spells to use will completely trivialise content and the only thing people will be gated behind is the gear check.

Basically what I’m trying to say I think the bosses should be buffed ever so slightly that everything isn’t one shot.

[Nitros14]

To be fair, flasks are horrifically expensive in vanilla and gold is hard to come by.

Also there's only so much skill that goes into pressing frostbolt 600 times in a row. The rotations in classic are mostly extremely simple.

People will know that spell hit is actually important now though.

[Deleted]

The only thing slowing people down will be gear-/resistance-checks and Onyxia cloaks. The actual skill and knowledge required for Classic raiding is a joke. You could clear the raids with only 20 people or less, so long as they weren't asleep or afk. You often had one player doing 3x-4x the damage of others of the same class and gear in the raid, because only a handful of people had any idea what they were doing and the rest was only a step above "auto-shot AFK" most of the time.

[Nikkaszal]

The boss mechanics for almost all of Vanilla up to AQ40 and Naxx are basically no-brainers. That's not the issue

The issue is that it takes fifty million years to gear up a raid of 40 to be able to tackle each tier of content

[pateuvasiliu]

I can tell you what buffs I use as a hunter doing BWL/MC/ZG.

1. Onyxia buff

2. ZG buff

3. Dire Maul - 3 buffs

4. Mongoose elixir

5. Grilled Squid

6. Juju Might

7. Other stuff like Blasted Lands agi buff and so on.

There's a lot of shit you can do to make your performance better.

[Nitros14]

The only thing slowing people down will be gear-/resistance-checks and Onyxia cloaks. The actual skill and knowledge required for Classic raiding is a joke. You could clear the raids with only 20 people or less, so long as they weren't asleep or afk. You often had one player doing 3x-4x the damage of others of the same class and gear in the raid, because only a handful of people had any idea what they were doing and the rest was only a step above "auto-shot AFK" most of the time.

There's a world of difference between Molten Core/Blackwing Lair and Naxxramas.

The dps requirement for the Naxxramas bosses is pretty steep, at least. Especially Loatheb and Kel'Thuzad, but also Gothik and Thaddius. Four Horsemen and Gothik are reasonably complex encounters and I can remember taking a pug into Naxxramas at 70 and basically everyone got roasted by the dance, (it's considerably faster than the 80 version) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igxPuFO3dLQ.

Molten Core could definitely be 20-manned in poor gear. It'd just take a while. I can remember a warlock who decided to try using rank 1 shadowbolt all raid as an experiment and was 5th on DPS. Everyone else was just grossly incompetent.

[Jinpachi]

The boss mechanics for almost all of Vanilla up to AQ40 and Naxx are basically no-brainers. That's not the issue

The issue is that it takes fifty million years to gear up a raid of 40 to be able to tackle each tier of content

And there you have the longevity issues solved for the server

- - - Updated - - -

Oh shit, think they'll put original naxx in over EPL?

[Biske]

There's a world of difference between Molten Core/Blackwing Lair and Naxxramas.

The dps requirement for the Naxxramas bosses is pretty steep, at least. Especially Loatheb and Kel'Thuzad, but also Gothik and Thaddius.

Molten Core could definitely be 20-manned in poor gear. It'd just take a while. I can remember a warlock who decided to try using rank 1 shadowbolt all raid as an experiment and was 5th on DPS. Everyone else was just grossly incompetent.

Yeah, my raid in MC had a 70yr old hunter that basically only auto attacked and threw an arcane shot here and there. She was a nice old lady, but, you know, she wasn't really contributing much of anything. We couldn't take her to Naxx, though, nor assign her kiting duty in BWL.

[Nikkaszal]

And there you have the longevity issues solved for the server

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Oh shit, think they'll put original naxx in over EPL?

Yeah! Who needs to worry about content drought when each tier takes you a year and a half to gear in before the next one anyway?

Brilliant!

[Nitros14]

I have some ancient screenshots from forums about Naxxramas in those days. It's interesting to see what people thought back then about the mechanics.

[Azadina]

The only thing slowing people down will be gear-/resistance-checks and Onyxia cloaks. The actual skill and knowledge required for Classic raiding is a joke. You could clear the raids with only 20 people or less, so long as they weren't asleep or afk. You often had one player doing 3x-4x the damage of others of the same class and gear in the raid, because only a handful of people had any idea what they were doing and the rest was only a step above "auto-shot AFK" most of the time.

By all means, clear naxx with 20 people or less.

[ringpriest]

The boss mechanics for almost all of Vanilla up to AQ40 and Naxx are basically no-brainers. That's not the issue

The issue is that it takes fifty million years to gear up a raid of 40 to be able to tackle each tier of content

And then you need the logistical ability to get those 40 people properly loaded up with pots, flasks, arrows, and all the other consumables, and then you have to face the most dreaded hurdle in WoW : getting them all to show up on time. (My healer was originally my 1st alt, but "we need 1 more heals" happened so often that it became my main - being under geared was far less of a concern for my guild than the fact that I could be counted on to show up.)

[sylenna]

The boss mechanics for almost all of Vanilla up to AQ40 and Naxx are basically no-brainers. That's not the issue

The issue is that it takes fifty million years to gear up a raid of 40 to be able to tackle each tier of content

and that is why the classic server will leave players with horrific experiences. when you see people in t2.5 you will know that they are hardcore. but seeing them in t3? that will take ages and you should really try to condition 40-50 players for the big raids. but the server is called World of Warcraft: Classic, which sounds more of a zeitgeist thing instead of a server called World of Warcraft: Vanilla or 1.0. so i guess they will cave in and present dual specs etc. :/

[Woobels]

By all means, clear naxx with 20 people or less.

Obviously not happening for Naxx, but it's main form of difficulty is still just the amount of gearing required, the actual difficulty of mechanics won't stop people from clearing the place.

I'm actually interested to see how this will end up anyways, I know a lot of private servers have been or have entertained the idea of artificially tuning vanilla raids up because of how easy and figured out they are now, but Blizz will obviously not do this.

[sociald1077]

I think is much more than a current raider vs classic raider mindset, there is a current WoW player vs classic WoW player mindset.

It took me 5 months to level my warrior up in classic, then another year of farting about to get into raids. Hell I was a massive clicker when I started playing.

This time, I will be bringing 13-15 years of WoW experience, efficiency, and over all being a more prepared gamer to the game. We all are. We have all improved and will bring that mentality to the game. Sure we wont be leveling up in a couple days, but we will be bringing that efficiency mindset with us and that will affect all aspects of play.

DO I want them to change anything about raiding? HELL NO! I want at the most 1.12. Thats it.

[Nitros14]

Obviously not happening for Naxx, but it's main form of difficulty is still just the amount of gearing required, the actual difficulty of mechanics won't stop people from clearing the place.

I'm actually interested to see how this will end up anyways, I know a lot of private servers have been or have entertained the idea of artificially tuning vanilla raids up because of how easy and figured out they are now, but Blizz will obviously not do this.

Naxxramas is more like a modern raid (the 80 version was so undertuned the mechanics didn't matter, but 60ramas has mechanics).

Molten Core and even Blackwing Lair are shockingly simple.

[Kramrad]

I can see people getting bored with the grind, vanilla attunements were no joke. Not to mention grinding resistance gear, getting hit capped, defense capped, etc.

[Akka]

The only thing slowing people down will be gear-/resistance-checks and Onyxia cloaks. The actual skill and knowledge required for Classic raiding is a joke. You could clear the raids with only 20 people or less, so long as they weren't asleep or afk.

That's just from people using MC as the template for all Vanilla raiding.
Yes you could kill half the MC bosses with 20 people. Ragnaros with 20 people ? Better to have them already geared and pretty decent, but maybe doable.
Razorgore with 20 people ? Good luck. Vael with 20 people ? Unless you already have gear from well beyond him and/or are using consummable like candies, good luck again.


There is this weird stupid belief that today's players are somehow some sort of different, gameplay-wise superior species than people back then (hint : they aren't) and that somehow people who had played hardcore one year and a half were still clueless and noob (hint : they weren't). It seems that people don't understand that the TYPE of difficulty was different (more about tight tuning and management than mechanically complex), but that it was difficult nonetheless.

[thilicen]

Will be interesting to witness the moment in classic where people finally begin to understand what they signed up for.

-Gather 40 players for raids
-Gather resistance gear for 40 people
-Material grinding with no flying mounts to produce the epic amounts of flasks and potions needed
-Grinding gold for repairs / mats / epic mounts
-Touring the world before raids for world buffs

Personally I'm happy those days are well behind.

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That's just from people using MC as the template for all Vanilla raiding.
Yes you could kill half the MC bosses with 20 people. Ragnaros with 20 people ? Better to have them already geared and pretty decent, but maybe doable.
Razorgore with 20 people ? Good luck. Vael with 20 people ? Unless you already have gear from well beyond him and/or are using consummable like candies, good luck again.


There is this weird stupid belief that today's players are somehow some sort of different, gameplay-wise superior species than people back then (hint : they aren't) and that somehow people who had played hardcore one year and a half were still clueless and noob (hint : they weren't). It seems that people don't understand that the TYPE of difficulty was different (more about tight tuning and management than mechanically complex), but that it was difficult nonetheless.

Most fights in AQ40 alone would rip people to shreds if they came unprepared. Yes like you said, MC bosses to a point would be fine, but once you get to BWL and moving forward it's not nearly as simple as some people would have it be. A lot seem to be thinking of WOTLK when they talk about Naxx. Naxx40 was something else entirely.

[Nitros14]

To be fair flasking the entire raid was extremely rare. It just cost way too much. Maybe for some of the intense dps checks in Naxxramas like Loatheb and Kel'Thuzad.