Vanilla stats too complicated for retailers

[Deleted]

no, the implication is that most vanila players are casuals. You got one game that is officially supported and developed catering to casuals and another that is ghetto backwods hack of an older version of a game that is propagandised against as illegal. Which audience is more likely to garner more simpletons? One version is gated by numerous things like selecting a private server. installing and then patching an old version of the game manually at that and is fearmongered against. On top of that it requires a dedication to the game prior to it, knowledge that there is such thing as private server as an option and will to go so far as to get the old version of the game because thats how much they want and like it over what retail did after cataclysm launch.

Ofcourse retailers are going to be a demographic that has way more kiddies morons and clueless casuals. Its not a slight against me even tho i play on retail, because i know generalisations can be made and that doesnt mean everyone in a group fits that, just the majority.

[Cassidin]

The thing is.....vanilla is not FOR people playing retail. Sure some crossover is going to happen but the moment they start trying to cater it to people who honestly have no real interest in what vanilla was/is they are going to not please anyone. They need to just make it as faithful as possible and it will find an audience. If not then they can say they tried an the numbers werent as high as the vocal people think or want.

You do realise I hope that once classic comes out - it will be sold (even if as part of our current sub). At that point classic becomes "retail". Do we then call it "retail" and "old retail"? How about just classic and live? We don't need meaningless terms such as "retail".

[Deleted]

No Pathetic is you denying reality to feel better about yourself.

[HumbleDuck]

Not more complicated, counterintuitive itemization maybe, but not complicated.

PS. You can't simply "go with the item with the highest level" on live servers either.

[Deleted]

I believe the word will be "classic"

[Z-Man]

...and weaponskill, which... Forgive me if I'm wrong... That came with just hitting stuff? I'm more of a TBC lord than a vanilla try hard myself, but I still very much remember weaponskill just being a static bar that increases when you melee something just like in TBC.

I remember having to find something weak with a pile of hit points and just wail away at it until you were actually able to hit something with your new shiny. Dev could be really cruel and make every single progression weapon require a different skill.

[Addict]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA
Hold on..
AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Vanilla stats were never difficult. Poorly itemised so a bit more effort, sure. But never difficult. You could tell with relative ease if something was better for you.

Also, is "retailers" now the official term for people playing live servers? What do we call those that currently play on private servers, "thieves"?

A+ good sir.

[Deleted]

Not more complicated, counterintuitive itemization maybe, but not complicated.

PS. You can't simply "go with the item with the highest level" on live servers either.

Exactly, this proves the claim that overall tendency is for "retailers" to be a less comprehensive group assuming the poster plays on retail.

[Swalload]

Back in the day you had just for tanks the following stats: strength, stamina, defense, parry, dodge, weapon skill, block %, block value, resistance, etc. You had to balance the stats yourself and understand your items. You couldnt just go with the item with the highest level like in retail now.

Item and stats management is too complicated for todays retailers. Should they just simplify the stats for vanilla to be more accessible for retailers?

The entire point of classic is to make a version of the game for people who don't want to play. No they should not simplify the stats in classic, the whole concept is to not have retail players in classic. This is not WoW 2, this is not an exodus of the population towards something new. It's just an option for people who don't like retail. The retail players have the option to stay in retail, adapt to what classic should be, or get the fuck out.

The option to make classic for retail players should never even exist in anyone's mind.

[Sky High]

No Pathetic is you denying reality to feel better about yourself.

that, what? you're undeservedly pretentious about stealing? this isn't the "Klepto" tag on tumblr braj.

[Leetbeartank]

Only warriors were actually able to tank anything more than easier dungeons, so that narrows things down...and there are already caps written down for others to min/max their stats and find the 'best pieces' to achieve the requirements. The internet exists ya know.

What? Bears and paladins could tank too.

Bears just needed the right gear and they were fine tanks. Paladins were a little hairier though.

[Deleted]

A+ good sir.

Better tell that to those thieves down at the library then. Go on, of you go. Whats stopping you!? GO ON! Accesing someones ip without paying is theft right? So reading books at the library for free is theft. No? There goes your argument.

[Rosefern]

I'd have to agree with the general consensus here that vanilla stats weren't that complicated.
From a dps perspective the only numbers you really had to learn/known was what was hit cap and possibly crit cap.

The other advantage it had was that ilvl and gearscore weren't things until wotlk. Which mean you actually could look at gear that dropped and decide based off stat points whether it was good or not. Right now to many people see a higher ilvl and assume its an upgrade without actually looking at the stats. Current WoW has a false sense of "this is easier" cause I can just look at an ilvl and decide, but that number is rarely an accurate representation of upgrade or not.

[Addict]

Better tell that to those thieves down at the library then. Go on, of you go. Whats stopping you!? GO ON! Accesing someones ip without paying is theft right? So reading books at the library for free is theft. No? There goes your argument.

usually you access books at the Library, via a library card = one you often pay for, as a service of paying for the card = you get to borrow and acess books. IP rental and IP taking, massive changes there kiddo.

[Scottyjscizzle]

I remember having to find something weak with a pile of hit points and just wail away at it until you were actually able to hit something with your new shiny. Dev could be really cruel and make every single progression weapon require a different skill.

even then it was one time, people like to act as if weaponskill was unique to each weapon and not just types. only reason i didn't cap it back in the day was being a feral druid...well we just pawed at stuff.

[Cassidin]

Better tell that to those thieves down at the library then. Go on, of you go. Whats stopping you!? GO ON! Accesing someones ip without paying is theft right? So reading books at the library for free is theft. No? There goes your argument.

VERY bad example. Libraries pay more for books or have special licencing deals BECAUSE many access them.

[Heladys]

"etc" after listing them all doesn't serve much purpose

But they aren't all listed. That's what undercuts his superiority stance.

[Cassidin]

I'd have to agree with the general consensus here that vanilla stats weren't that complicated.
From a dps perspective the only numbers you really had to learn/known was what was hit cap and possibly crit cap.

The other advantage it had was that ilvl and gearscore weren't things until wotlk. Which mean you actually could look at gear that dropped and decide based off stat points whether it was good or not. Right now to many people see a higher ilvl and assume its an upgrade without actually looking at the stats. Current WoW has a false sense of "this is easier" cause I can just look at an ilvl and decide, but that number is rarely an accurate representation of upgrade or not.

Also had to do more interesting things like "watch your threat". I wasn't really active in any raiding till TBC but I know then that if you played an Ele shaman - you either knew how to manage your threat - or spend the fight in a puddle on the floor. Don't know if Ele Shaman was a problem like that in Vanilla or only in TBC - but I do know that threat "was a thing".

[Flurryfang]

I'm guessing the implication is that true vanilla players quit the game a long time ago. I propose vanilla hardcoreists should instead be called quitters.

I think that some of the "truest" vanilla players are still playing, because they actually don't care that much about the content and is staying for the people and the community.

And yes, we should proberly call the Vanilla pureist quitters xD

[Deleted]

that, what? you're undeservedly pretentious about stealing? this isn't the "Klepto" tag on tumblr braj.

You dont understand what the reply was even about.
Retail players do have more of less comprehensive players than private servers. Simply because its harder to acces and a number of other gates one has to pass to get to it. And the guy i was responding to was in denial of that fact. The term struck a nerve in him because he thinks he qualifies as the less comprehensive, more casual, less invested type of retail player and he feels bad about others acknowledging it even indirectly.

And btw, emulating a server for an old client of a game is not theft. this isnt the "compulsive liar" tag on tumbler kid.

VERY bad example. Libraries pay more for books or have special licencing deals BECAUSE many access them.

Very good example, you go there and you read for free what bookstores charge for. Libraries are institutions built to allow acces to ip for free including video games for the betrnment of the people. If not for them youd be wearing a toga right about now. Its funny how you defend corporationalism thinking you are some moral paragon shunning thieves. Theft means someone has robbed you of something. A speculative profit is just a speculation not actual money someone lost. Get real.

Might as well go and accuse a random stranger of theft of that car you imagined you own.