Ele Shaman Early Beta datamining spellchanges

[Icytroll]

Who would have thought boomkins get another overhaul XD

I really enjoyed elemental this expansion (after 7.1/7.2) with the various builds/legendaries and playing beta feels so bad.

Really fail to understand why they butcher us every time we are fun to make us a crippled spec at expansion launch and then buff/fix us 1-2 patches into the expansion.
Makes totally no sense...

Here's how I see the reason behind most of the changes:

The reason they're making a lot of changes is because we won't be using artifact weapons and legendaries in BFA, and these items play a vital role in our current rotations and dmg outputs (this is happening to all classes, it just varies depending on how much artifacts/legendaries changed the different classes' playstyle). So with artifacts/legendaries being removed, some specs/playstyles will feel really akward or just won't function properly (on top of this they're reworking a few bits and pieces here and there in terms of class design/playstyles).

So in my mind, if they didn't rework a lot of our stuff before BFA, the game would be in shambles, because we would be missing a lot of abilities to make our playstyles work the way they do in Legion.

[woopytywoop]

Here's how I see the reason behind most of the changes:

The reason they're making a lot of changes is because we won't be using artifact weapons and legendaries in BFA, and these items play a vital role in our current rotations and dmg outputs (this is happening to all classes, it just varies depending on how much artifacts/legendaries changed the different classes' playstyle). So with artifacts/legendaries being removed, some specs/playstyles will feel really akward or just won't function properly (on top of this they're reworking a few bits and pieces here and there in terms of class design/playstyles).

So in my mind, if they didn't rework a lot of our stuff before BFA, the game would be in shambles, because we would be missing a lot of abilities to make our playstyles work the way they do in Legion.

Ofc they need to change things, but so far it seems they are changing things again for the worse just like they did after MoP and WoD.
Both in WoD and Legion elemental were terrible at launch and when I play beta now, it feels just like the same thing again.

eg. if I use ice fury with empty maelstrom bar then I prob won't be able to fire off 4 buffed frost shocks because I won't get 80 maelstrom during the buff uptime. Besides that, it's competing with 2 talents that give always a dps boost while IF doesn't on patchwork. If you make a talent like ice fury, than you should be able to use it on cd and you also shouldn't be required to stand still for so long just to be able to get resources to use it. Imo IF on beta is just awful and barely adds any mobility.

The flow of the spec and the synergy of talents feels bad. all active buttons have been nerfed so much that none of them give you satisfaction when you use them. You just pick passives and refresh FS, spam LB and LvB and use ES once in a while.

Atm I like being able to have many viable builds, I like the fast paced playstyle with the RNG factor on resources and procs (besides gloves) that require you to make quick decisions. I also like gust of wind.

All of the above is just gone on beta. If you also than consider "class fantasy" and "utility" we're thrown back 10y but without utility and no class fantasy. Sure we get tremor back, but we also loose our root totem completely.

I know I sound pessimistic, but like I said, so far it seems they are making the same mistake all over again like the did at WoD and Legion launch.

[Psidum]

Initially in alpha they had a vision, colossal smash type debuff increasing lightning bolt damage. Everyone recoiled in horror and they backtracked. Since then they have been floating around rudderless taking on bits of legion elemental with some new lightning bolt orientated flavor and yeah the lack of vision shows. They have also failed to resolve in anyway the core issues making elemental one of the less desirable dps specs in competitive side of pve; high variance in performance pull to pull, low survivability and dps that falls off a cliff in high movement fights (which all end tier bosses tend to be). In fact with mobility they have made it much much worse.

And for additional salt to the wound our aoe niche draw card is gone, we are very much now below average. Even if they do some serious magic with the numbers the focus on low maelstrom generation, fewer eq at higher damage hurts us in content like m+ where mobs are constantly being kited.

No one can say for sure how things will pan out but in my opinion the spec needs major work and its unlikely we will see anything but minor tweaking before release. My guess is it will be a repeat of legion with devs constantly deflecting issues back to the community until it becomes so bad they finally have to do something. You have to choose your battles and I do want to enjoy the next expansion so I won't be playing the spec. Sad as ele legion was a blast but it is what it is.

[Deleted]

Feel free to enlighten me how it's supposed to work then, tooltip is not that complicated.





Yep, i made that up.

And no, Aftershock is specifically mentioned in a later paragraph, i didn't fail it quote it there.



Taking into account that Earthquake damage is spread over 6 seconds and lacks a limited damage multiplier like Stormkeeper had, i doubt it will reach the levels of Static Overload, unless Earthquake really goes bonkers in terms of numbers.

And it still doesn't change the fact that High Voltage does not represent a massive RNG talent, Aftershock however is one, whether it's interaction will be as strong as static Overload and Stormkeeper remains to be seen.



I never said you claim that Earthquake is too spammy, because i claimed that, as this issue was discussed during ToS when Blizzard fumbled with Earthquake and it's Haste scaling - leading to nerfs that basically eliminated Earthquake.

A common issue brought up was that due high Maelstrom generation during AoE and it's rather low cost, you have to spend so many GCD's on Earthquake, so a lot of people suggested that Earthquake would just flat out cost more Maelstrom or scale like Earth shock does, Blizzard simply buffed Earthquake to compensate, but the thing about "spamming" Earthquake during AoE remained.

Now whether a single Earthquake should hold more power is another one, as more powerful, but less frequent Earthquake has both up and down sides (one being decent for burst AoE, other being bad for moving mobs).

First of all, it's=/=its - go look up the difference, NOW.
Secondly, you have failed yet again in addressing the main issue in my posts, so I'm a bit baffled as to what you're arguing here. Semantics it seems, or just for the sake of it.
I'm going to reiterate my point for the last time, and if you still don't get it - do me a favour and stop responding. This is a quote of a post I made a few days ago on EU forums, read and try to comprehend it:
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...551996#post-12

These are all good points, which I all agree on, but when talking about elemental's mechanics, first and foremost you need to address the real elephant in the room - inconsistency in damage output.

There are some clear markers that this spec's development philosophy is still going to be centred around getting crits, overloading those crits and possibly multiplying them with a dice roll hit. That in and of itself would've been fine, if only elemental's _baseline_ (no procs, lucky crits streaks/overloads etc.) was balanced to be on par with others. It is not and it can not ever be, precisely due to the way Elemental Fury and various talents/procs/what-have-you (god only knows what is waiting for us down the line in azerite gear - I'm already trembling in my boots) interact with our spenders.

Earth Shock and the way this ability interacts with Elemental Fury and the newly 'redesigned' Aftershock is the prime example of what I'm talking about.
For the sake of argument, let's assume it hits for 5k at fixed 60 maelstrom cost, crits for 12.5k, then you win a dice roll and it crits again for 12.5k STILL at 60 ms cost. 5k output vs 25k, plus additional mobility gcd, granted through sheer luck, out of my control and due to no ability on my part. How is that not THE OPPOSITE of engaging game play?
What this abomination of a talent also does is limit the baseline scaling that our spenders can receive, because if you wanted to tune the aforementioned to do really good damage regardless of whether you chain crits and rng on top of them, you'd have to tune AfS to sub 10% values.
Solutions? Either return the talent back to a fixed maelstrom % refund, or scrap it and come up with something engaging, not yet another dice roll. That, or tune its counterparts to be competitive options on their own, not reliant on picking other talents (hello, MotE is useless without EotE - that is how you create cookie cutter builds).

Our aoe spender looks even worse as far as consistency of output is concerned. Not only does it have the same daft interaction with AfS and other factors already mentioned, but now you've decided to also decrease its CPM, while (I assume it's still coming) increasing its DPS.
That would be fine, if you also increased its radius and/or tick rate. Leaving the spell as it is currently, while effectively cutting its CPM by half, is beyond idiotic and inapplicable in any conceivable aoe heavy scenario, which almost always involves the mobs moving, either into position, or being kited away/out of something.

Another issue is not only the baseline speed of resource generation via CL, but also the way it interacts with mastery, which iirc is 1/5th overload chance in a 5 target scenario. I don't know how High Voltage works, because it is bugged to hell and back at the moment, but I assume it's going to be like half of base overload chance, which would be what.. half of 1/5th.
Thanks very much. I also want to thank you for presenting me with 2 other very splendid options in that row to choose from. A 2.5min cooldown that is currently broken, as mentioned in the OP, and LMT, which is atm undertuned and suffers from the same problems our spender does as far as its static nature is concerned.

[Kralljin]

Secondly, you have failed yet again in addressing the main issue in my posts

No i didn't, you just fucked up in your very first post.

Because, as quoted by me, you said High Voltage causes the same issues as Static Overload pre ToS, which is just not true, regardless whether it merely procs off your overloads or causes a second overload like Power of the Maelstrom.

Because that statement is basically the start of this little argument, right?

First of all, it's=/=its - go look up the difference, NOW.

Alright, now you look up the meaning of attacking someone's grammar.

[Deleted]

15) Exposed Elements - Echo of the Elements - Earthen Rage
30) Aftershock - Unlimited Power - Totem Mastery
45) Spirit Wolf - Earth Shield - Static Charge
60) High Voltage - Storm Elemental - Liquid Magma Totem
75) Nature's Guardian - Wind Rush Totem - Ancestral Guidance
90) Elemental Blast - Primal Elementalist - Master of the Elements
100) Icefury - Stormkeeper - Ascendance

Earthen Rage
To make this talent usable, the frequency should scale with haste and the shots should be affected by the mastery.

Aftershock and Unlimited Power
Put these two talents on the same line, needs tuning.

Totem Mastery
The current problem of the Elemental in AoE is struggles to generate resources. A solution could be to completely change Totem Mastery. The proposal is:
Instant, 40 yd range, 1 min cooldown
Summons four Totems that increase your combat capabilities for 10 sec
- Generate 10 Maelstrom every 1 sec
- Increase the change for Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning to trigger Elemental Overload by 15%
- Increase Flame Shock damage over time by 10%
- Increase your Haste by 4%

Liquid Magma Totem:
This talent is overshadowed by his line-mates. To make this talent an explosion of AoE you could brush off Vulcanic Rage. The proposal is:
Summons a totem at the target location that pulsates and then explode after 3 sec then inflict (200% of spell Power) to all enemies within 8 yards and afflicting them with Flame Shock.

Elemental Blast and Icefury
Right now these two duties hit weak but, with the new position, they can be buffed to make them competitive.

This is the only way I can see to improve the Elemental.

[mrinvisable2]

we are saved we have blue post about ele, oh w8, nvm, typical

[Lucavian]

"Buff them. please. for the love of god. <edit> we need more mobility!"

Blue response:

"... or specific buffs that you believe that are needed. I'm looking forward to read about your ideas, and suggestions on how to improve upon the spec!"

Really wanted to main shaman, but damn, this is the kind of attention they get whereas other specs get full blown analysis from dev perspectives. =\

[Beingbob]

"Buff them. please. for the love of god. <edit> we need more mobility!"

Blue response:

"... or specific buffs that you believe that are needed. I'm looking forward to read about your ideas, and suggestions on how to improve upon the spec!"

Really wanted to main shaman, but damn, this is the kind of attention they get whereas other specs get full blown analysis from dev perspectives. =\

Imo it's 50/50 whether they can salvage BFA elemental, but I would assume we're going to get a more detailed response than this considering what other specs have had. This blue post seems to be just a community manager censoring some guy in what happens to be a feedback thread.

[Kralljin]

Really wanted to main shaman, but damn, this is the kind of attention they get whereas other specs get full blown analysis from dev perspectives. =\

Because that blue post does not come from a dev but a forum moderator.

https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...ossprey&page=1

Doesn't exactly look like a blizzard employee focused on development.

[Northy]

Ele on beta still feels so bad and weak. Blue inc?

[Rezhka]

"Buff them. please. for the love of god. <edit> we need more mobility!"

Apparently on the latest beta build, Frost Shock is no longer cost maelstrom and deal 45% SP (equals with FrS on live with 20 maelstrom). It's lower than LB, but it's instant so no complain to that. It cover our mobility in a way I guess.

[Kralljin]

Apparently on the latest beta build, Frost Shock is no longer cost maelstrom and deal 45% SP (equals with FrS on live with 20 maelstrom). It's lower than LB, but it's instant so no complain to that. It cover our mobility in a way I guess.

I'm mixed on that change.

Obviously, it's a buff for movement which is good but...
1.You literally spam Frost shock during movement, better find a comfy keybind for that spell if it goes live.
2.Talk about "transforming into animals for mobility" is bogus, unless there's no enemy present or you need the 30% to get out, simply spamming Frost shock will most likely be better than using GW.
3.I still doubt that Icefury will be viable because of that, it still represents 4 GCD's of not generating Maelstrom, instead of working for that juicy ES.

Speaking of Icefury, currently i do not believe this talent will be any good anyway: because there's only one trait that boosts it.

http://bfa.wowhead.com/spell=279027/natural-harmony

The majority of traits focus on Lava Burst or LB, the Lava burst ones are obviously neutral towards Icefury but the LB ones have a negative synergy.

And the trait above could potentially be kept up via EB, altough unlikely because i don't believe that Exposed Elements or EB stands up to EotE, Lvb hits too hard currently in comparison to other spells, ignoring the additional Maelstrom generation.

http://www.wowhead.com/heart-of-azer...e-traits-guide (new ones are missing).

Also, Earthquake damage got doubled, MMO-C missed that one.

[Rezhka]

Speaking of Icefury, currently i do not believe this talent will be any good anyway: because there's only one trait that boosts it.

http://bfa.wowhead.com/spell=279027/natural-harmony

The majority of traits focus on Lava Burst or LB, the Lava burst ones are obviously neutral towards Icefury but the LB ones have a negative synergy.

And the trait above could potentially be kept up via EB, altough unlikely because i don't believe that Exposed Elements or EB stands up to EotE, Lvb hits too hard currently in comparison to other spells, ignoring the additional Maelstrom generation.

http://www.wowhead.com/heart-of-azer...e-traits-guide (new ones are missing).

Also, Earthquake damage got doubled, MMO-C missed that one.

About Icefury, I personally love MotE play style, it's basically what we have on our 2pc tier bonus on live (even better it's not limited to our Shocks spender). For me LvB weave play style is what makes our rotation interesting. It feels like a chaotic elemental wheel when we fling random elements to enemies, and that Master of the Elements name is just right. It feels great on me.

I believe there'll be new azerite traits coming on future patches, since its a tier bonus replacement. So maybe later we'll get a bonus that synergize better with our frost spells. I just wish that our mastery overload also work to our Shocks, though it maybe too much to ask lol.

Anyway, does High Voltage talent actually work on the latest patch? Because I never see my LB procced twice.

[Psidum]

About Icefury, I personally love MotE play style, it's basically what we have on our 2pc tier bonus on live (even better it's not limited to our Shocks spender). For me LvB weave play style is what makes our rotation interesting. It feels like a chaotic elemental wheel when we fling random elements to enemies, and that Master of the Elements name is just right. It feels great on me.

I second this. Another element to this playstyle is to monitor procs of concordance and Norgannon's with weak auras, use icefury on cd but leave the procs there and fish for one or both procs. Roughly each was worth around 30% extra damage so you are looking at up to 80% extra damage on earthshocks and frost shocks. It's extremely dynamic to play as you have to watch and make decisions about...

- using ES at lower maelstrom levels with procs is dps increase over higher maelstrom with no procs (factoring maelstrom generation time).
- balancing buffed frost shocks vs dps on the move.
- when to stop fishing and start weaving to get all 2pc buffed FS casts done before expiry.
- working with dynamics of random lvb procs, and potential EotE capping.
- keeping maelstrom levels up for icefury so you can expend all shocks right away if buffs line up near or before icefury cd.
- weaving ES in your FS window to priorities buffed ES over FS while not wasting icefury buffed FS.
- lots of other nuance.

Its been the most fun incarnation of elemental for me and the most fun I have had in the game since MOP. Its sad to see what is replacing it, this beige boring set up that gives the illusion of complexity while really being a boring procedural rotation with minor variance via rng. The new elemental represents everything i hate about recent class development, it looks like something someone threw together based on some spreadsheet numbers vs something created by someone who played the spec and wanted to build upon previous successes.

[Kralljin]

About Icefury, I personally love MotE play style, it's basically what we have on our 2pc tier bonus on live (even better it's not limited to our Shocks spender). For me LvB weave play style is what makes our rotation interesting. It feels like a chaotic elemental wheel when we fling random elements to enemies, and that Master of the Elements name is just right. It feels great on me.

Problem in my opinion is that that the bonus damage from Icefury is too low.
With Icefury bonus, Frost shock deals 72% SP, that's far lower than a Lava Burst crit, even with MotE, it's just 86,4%.

It just doesn't feel like it's worth the hassle, ES rocks at 250% SP, synergy with Aftershock is obvious, PE has a defensive bonus on top of that, Earthen Rage just works on it's own.

I just wish that our mastery overload also work to our Shocks

I think it would be a fine suggestion for Frost shock, Earth shock maybe not so much.

Anyway, does High Voltage talent actually work on the latest patch? Because I never see my LB procced twice.

I don't think so, Lava burst also still auto crits regardless of FS being up.

[Mordog]

So, New Build, new Datamining.

It seems LvB critting on targets that are not affected by Fireshock is intendet

Lava Burst (Elemental) Lava Burst will always critically strike the target.

[Draele]

So, New Build, new Datamining.

It seems LvB critting on targets that are not affected by Fireshock is intendet

Seems like a lazy way of forcing through Flame Shock getting a cooldown...

[Mordog]

Seems like a lazy way of forcing through Flame Shock getting a cooldown...

But now, we wont have a disadvantage at switichng to prio Targets.
At worst our FlameShok is on CD and cant applied imidiatly.

With the pandemic mechanik you theoreticly can keep up Flameshock on 3 Targets, wich isnt so bad if you keep in minde that FlameShok doesnt do low damage.
And if you cant keep it up on 3 Targets for 100% uptime, you still do full dmg with LvB.
And if you have to move, you will just spam LvB and Frostshok, the 20% surge Chance is a really good deal.


It is more sad, that Exposed Elements is a debuffon the Target, so if you ES Target 1 short before it dies, and you have to switch target Exposed elements will grant you nothing, but that just needs some smart play.

Really Bad is, if you take Exposed Elements and Aftershock, you will waste Exposed Elements debuffs if you dont wave in some cast between the LB ( wich will get buffed from Exposed Elements) and the ES ( wich will debuff the target with the next Exposed elements buff).

If you dont, the LB will consume the "old" debuff from the target and the one the target gets with the ES you cast right after the LB...

If you have the RNG for it, and Aftershock procs 2 - 3 times and get Surges, you will overcap Maelstrom by waving in Casts...

[Coffeh]

So Lava Burst is just Chaos Bolt now.