Sylvanas vs Alleria

[derpkitteh]

alleria's void powers would probably nullify the bonuses of sylvanas' banshee form.

banshee form is her only bonus, so i don't think she'd win.

[Raetary]

And Alleria WAS the Ranger-General before Sylvanas, suggesting she is a better Archer. Sylvanas only got the title because Alleria went missing.

alleria never was a ranger general.
she was a ranger captain.

[Tripzzz]

GL killing Sylvanas. Even she can't do it to herself.

She killed herself by jumping on saronite spikes after learning about Bolvar. Saronite is hardened old god blood, basically "void metal".

[evertonbelmontt]

For those arguing that Sylvanas would trick Alleria into "feelings and emotions" and stab her in the back, I'll just say this:

The void whispers her ALL the time with promises and offerings, and it's not just lies, the power IS there for her to take at a cost.

Don't think for a second she's naive to be tricked by her "fallen sister".

Not even gonna count the times fighting against the legion.

[Minikin]

It's implied in the lore. The cinematic could only show so much. Lore-wise she wiped out half and sent the Horde after the rest which caused Anduin to mass heal and bring back the morale.

where is this? do u have a link?

ive been trying to read on this stuff but there seems to be nothing about it yet.

[AcidicSyn]

Who would win in a shootout battle? Setting: Ruins of Lordaeron. Plenty of room for arrows to ricochet.

Sylvanas has her banshee form and effects with Void.
Alleria has her full Void form to exploit.

Since the question seems to be pretty specifically referring to a particular kind of battle; a shoot out, and based only on what we know setting aside all speculation and assumption; then the odds would favor Sylvanas quite heavily.

We know Sylvanas was the better archer. With that said though I don't think this is a really good question to ask at this point (specifically asking about a "shootout battle" I mean) because we don't know to what extent Alerias own prowess with a bow has increased during her time with army of the light.

Leaving what we know- entering speculation:
I also feel it's important to note that Aleria spent the bulk of her time in the nether either imprisoned or studying with Locus Walker. She lost Thas'dorah relatively early as well (forced to abandon it is probably more accurate, not really "lose" but you get the point). I wouldn't be surprised if the bulk of her new strength comes from the void as opposed to much increased martial prowess. Though a few millennia fighting a guerilla war has probably beast moded her reflexes and general aptitude for survival. While Sylvanas, weather she meant to or not, has probably become a bit used to having an army of both fighters and agents that no doubt leaves her vulnerable if caught alone.

final thoughts:
I voted Sylvanas based on semantics, since I can only judge based on the information we have confirmed in the lore and I believe Sylvanas would win in a strictly shootout battle. With that said, remove the word shootout from the criteria and make it just an all out open 1v1 and my vote shifts to Aleria. Sylvanas IS the better archer, I don't think anyone knowing the lore would argue that. But Sylvanas strength has never been 1 on 1 combat, even while she was alive she was all about using her tools; the "Arrows in her quiver", while her sister definitely favored the more direct approach.

As much as I love Sylvanas and would prefer to stay loyal to her. There are more scenarios I can imagine where she would, at minimum, have a disadvantage than not. The very specific case of a "shootout" battle; just happens to be one of the few that swing in her favor.

[Deleted]

Sylvanas. She has something far stronger than void powers. Plot armor from horny fanboys.

[Qualia]

How did you know portal in roc wasn't big enough to transport stardestoyers? And I am sure Archimonde had to be able to make it wider.
Why didn't they take portable devices? such as lasers, grenades e.t.c. And I'm sure fighter's could fit through.

(yes, it could make sence but humanity wasn't the biggest galactical threat for last 10000 years or more. and legion was)

Archimonde only arrived shortly before the war ended, and he was confident that he could end the war by himself. He failed in the end, but Archimonde actually wasn't too overconfident - he pretty much destroyed every armies on his way to the World Tree while looking virtually unharmed. He'd have won if Malfurion didn't pull out his one time DeM. If you can end the war by yourself with little effort, why bother wasting your power for something else that would probably be overkill (in your opinion) anyway? Did Archimonde really want more demons to witness what could be interpreted as his act of betrayal against Sargeras?
In the same line, we could ask why Kil'Jaeden, after his arrival at ToS, didn't just use the spell that an unnamed Eredar used to destroy an entire planet against us (he is on top of a big source of power that even Gul'dan could detected)? Why Sargeras, when he was right next to Azeroth, didn't open hundreds of portal for all those Legion demons to pour through to assault the significantly-less-defended Azeroth while he was doing his corrupting things? - it happened because they didn't think t was necessary.

Before Archimonde arrived, portals weren't even used to transport that many demons in. They were just mainly used as a mean to travel around Azeroth / escape by the mages and the Dreadlords. Additionally, given that until Archimonde arrived, there weren't anyone in the Legion / Scourge side on Azeroth that has the same level of power as AU Gul'dan during Legion around during RoC, whether they could open such a portal freely is pretty much in question to begin with.

[Nihiel]

Alleria Windrunner wins. She is the first mortal in the history of the cosmos to defy the shadows' whispers, the same shadow that brought down Dragons and even the Titans' own children. Alleria consumed the essence of a Naaru and is battle-hardened and sturdy, having fought the Legion on distant planets for a thousand years.

Whereas Sylvanas was setback by Greymane in Stormheim and her greatest feat was killing a couple of trash soldiers; something most major lore characters can do.

I don't have to much to say about this discussion, but I have to stop you here - please - do not put that much emphasis on Alleria being this amazing "Khaleesi First and Best Queen of WoW Lore" just because some retconned lore was needed for the alliance to get Blood Elves without them being Blood Elves. Just because Alleria hasn't succumbed to the whispers yet doesn't mean she's immune to them and won't succumb at a later stage. Describing her fancily as "defying something that brought down dragons and titans and other big shit" while defaming Sylvanas is just a joke tbh.

Besides, I have a slight feeling you're a bit biased and aren't objective in the Alleria vs Sylvanas debate.... I wonder why I'm getting this impression huh?
Your blue alliance blood elf hard-on is cringeworthy

[Qualia]

where is this? do u have a link?

ive been trying to read on this stuff but there seems to be nothing about it yet.

In his head. There haven't been many detailed information about that cinematic, except maybe a little bit about the healing scene were meant to show Anduin growing and adopting his own principle, his father's and the Alliance's.

If they wanted to depict that Sylvanas wiped out half of the Alliance army, they could have easily done that just as easily they did Anduin healing with his massively large dome of Light. That cinematic wasn't machinima, so the in-game graphic engine technical limitations aren't even applied to begin with.

GL killing Sylvanas. Even she can't do it to herself.

She would have been long dead had her Valkyrs didn't sacrifice themselves to bring her back. That's why she switched her view of her people from "arrows in the quiver" to "shield against the darkness" and has been trying her best to find a way to live forever (so she won't have to experience what she saw). Given that even Baine's pure physical strength could've "snapped her arm like twigs", her body doesn't even seem as durable as what we've thought from her short story.

[Varodoc]

do not put that much emphasis on Alleria being this amazing "Khaleesi First and Best Queen of WoW Lore" just because some retconned lore was needed for the alliance to get Blood Elves without them being Blood Elves. Just because Alleria hasn't succumbed to the whispers yet doesn't mean she's immune to them and won't succumb at a later stage. Describing her fancily as "defying something that brought down dragons and titans and other big shit" while defaming Sylvanas is just a joke tbh.

Retcon or not, it is clearly stated in the canon material that Alleria Windrunner is the FIRST MORTAL ever to succesfully defy the shadows' whispers.

'Alleria Windrunner is the first mortal to succeed at defying the shadow's whispers'

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ba...s/allied-races

And of course Alleria might fall to the whispers one day; because like any weapon, one must learn to use the Void properly. But she is in the hands of the ominous and wise Locus-Walker, and is surrounded by friendly and loyal Ren'dorei, as well as by her husband Turalyon and the Light-purified Nathrezim Lothraxion. You realize that the chances of Alleria falling completely to madness are very slim; especially since she is surrounded by so many people willing to help her should she start to go dangerously close to the edge of madness. Also, Alleria herself is the one who takes pride in the Ren'dorei's accomplishments, if you listen to the Ren'dorei's intro cinematic.

And i'm not defaming Sylvanas. Is it not a fact that she was killed by a bullet like any living being can? Is it not a fact that she was for a moment overpowered and setback by Greymane? Is it not a fact that consuming the essence of a dark naaru is a slightly more impressive feat than killing 6 random footmen? I'm simply stating facts.

[Goldielocks]

Sylvanas is the better ranger, but Alleria has serious void abilities that we haven't seen yet. We'll have to see.

[Deleted]

It's implied in the lore. The cinematic could only show so much. Lore-wise she wiped out half and sent the Horde after the rest which caused Anduin to mass heal and bring back the morale.

Where's it implied? The cinematic could show as much as it wanted, Blizzard has literally shown an infinite army of undead before in the Wrath cinematic.

I reckon they could show her killing half of the Alliance army, which is pretty significant and has to be shown if she was capable of that. Nothing should be implied, and nothing was implied.

She took out a siegetower and like 7 dudes, looked badass while doing it too don't get me wrong.

But that's the extent of her powers, one of her arrows couldn't even kill Greymane.

[mostvp71]

Sylvanas is the better ranger, but Alleria has serious void abilities that we haven't seen yet. We'll have to see.

Mmmmm idk about that, I think Alleria is he better ranger, Sylvanas may have been Ranger General of Silvermoon but Alleria was a far strider captain and has literally 1000s of years more experience due to being on Argus with Turaylon. Shes also the oldest of the four siblings, as for the void powers, I think they’re probably about even with Sylvanas’ undeath.

[Goldielocks]

Mmmmm idk about that, I think Alleria is he better ranger, Sylvanas may have been Ranger General of Silvermoon but Alleria was a far strider captain and has literally 1000s of years more experience.

Most sources I've seen pegged Sylvanas as the greatest ranger of her time, which naturally made Sylvanas very egotistical and vain. That carried over into her undead self. This was happening before Alleria stepped into the Dark Portal.

Talent beats experience in this case.

[Combatbutler]

Considering what Alleria has consumed, she has become one of the most powerful beings in the warcraft universe. The odds for Sylvanas to beat her are rather slim.

[mostvp71]

alleria never was a ranger general.
she was a ranger captain.

Yes of the Farstriders, she travelled the world helping others while Sylvanas, was idle for a while before WC3

[Deleted]

that 1000 years lol.

let's count a bit. we'll check unofficial timeline from wow.gamepedia





so we can say that 1 azerothian year is 45,4 nether years (1000/22 = 45,(45))

we know there were about 10.000 azerothian years between war of the ancients and reing of chaos. So legion spent 10.000 * 45,45 = 454500 nether years.

and yet they needed scourge to ensure victory over the world. they didn't have spaceships, future tech and other 'cool' stuff

there were less than 10 years between RoC and Legion or 450 nether years at max. and yet we see legion already in a space era

just WTF?

I'm confused, are we in agreement, or disagreement?

[mostvp71]

Most sources I've seen pegged Sylvanas as the greatest ranger of her time, which naturally made Sylvanas very egotistical and vain. That carried over into her undead self. This was happening before Alleria stepped into the Dark Portal.

Talent beats experience in this case.

No matter how much talent someone has, 1000 years experience of pure war would overcome that.

[Minikin]

In his head. There haven't been many detailed information about that cinematic, except maybe a little bit about the healing scene were meant to show Anduin growing and adopting his own principle, his father's and the Alliance's.

If they wanted to depict that Sylvanas wiped out half of the Alliance army, they could have easily done that just as easily they did Anduin healing with his massively large dome of Light. That cinematic wasn't machinima, so the in-game graphic engine technical limitations aren't even applied to begin with.

i hope he is not just making it up. that kinda stuff sticks with you in lore, making stuff up :P