A world with free immigration could be $78 trillion richer

[Player Twelve]

Anyone with a basic understanding of economics will understand this.

The fact that immigrants/kids of immigrants outperform natives at schools is proof of that, just look at what's happening in the UK.

Yeah, the somalis are outperforming the natives. They have some of the lowest education rates among immigrants we've ever had here and lowest employment rates.

[Machismo]

I'm 39 years old. Let me tell you of my first hand experience of mass immigration in Medway. South East England.

1. Native workers massively displaced as they can't compete with cash in hand immigrant workers. Skilled plumbers, electricians, etc all out of work and now claiming welfare.

2. Quality of workmanship from cheap immigrant is terrible. Customers thought they were getting a great deal but realise they paid half price for a botched job.

3. Immigrants can't get work because of bad reputation. No skilled native workers left. The area now has a skill shortage.

4. The public sector can not cope with the population increase. I had a 2 week queue time to see the doctor over a serious virus. I ended up going to A and E at hospital.

5. Crime has risen. Murders, rapes, etc all increased.

6. Trash and litter everywhere. It's disgusting. The people throw trash with zero respect in places that used to be considered high class. Now a garbage area. The council can not cope with cleaning the streets up.

7. Drugs everywhere. Young people drinking and drug on the streets. They have little hope of achieving.

8. Successful people move out as fast as they can.


What are my thoughts about multiculturalism, left wing welfare politics, rapid open border immigration?

Not good at all is my thoughts. Completely community destroying as witnessed by my own eyes.

Of course, this may just be my area. But from where I stand, it's easy to see why Brexit and Trump have won.

My area has turned into garbage land.

You decided to create a new account just for that?

[Independent voter]

We'd have 3/4ths of South America and Mexico up here. And Canada and you know Canadians don't like poor brown people.

[OokOok]

"Workers become more productive when they move from a poor country to a richer one with more efficient firms and better capital. "
LLLLLOOOOLLLLL

Say that to the 32,000 "refugees" that we're aware about that came to Canada and live off welfare instead of trying to go to school or get jobs. I mean they'd have to stop protesting and demanding more free stuff to do that

[igualitarist]

We'd have 3/4ths of South America and Mexico up here. And Canada and you know Canadians don't like poor brown people.

Not a bad idea, considering it would empty the favelas here

[Deleted]

I think the OP got shut down already quite nicely as the poll proves.
The whole idea is based an assumptions, and you know the saying...

One thing I agree on: To reach a planetary utopia, we need to work together to bring forth a better future. Thing is... it's impossible because of the huge economical differences and most importantly, the human nature.

I'm certain that when humans all die and an empire of AI takes our place, as machines will take emotion and self interest out of the equation, they will reach true equality.

The problem with that is that it is very commonly the same people who oppose working together because peoples are 'too different' who then reject any idea, policy or program which may make the world a more equal and less separated place, almost as if a utopia is something to be scared of and avoided at all costs...

[Machismo]

I'm all in favor it getting rid of immigration restrictions. Not only that, get rid of the welfare state. Far too many people feel the need to rely on government to cater to all their whims and desires.

[Machismo]

"Just for that" is one of the most important things in my life. I am living the "just for that" everyday.

I've forgotten my old account password, and seeing that Ends has gone and opinions are now allowed, yes, I made an account to express myself.

I'll be gone again if Endus/ilk decide to suppress everything they don't agree with. Don't worry.

Sure you did. I love you alt accounts, you guys are all adorable.

[d00mGuArD]

You decided to create a new account just for that?

my advice is to not dismiss that, it is what people see in the real world, outside forums and internet
dismissing this legit concern, or insulting them (you did not) for their concerns about their community and their real life experiences, pushes people to vote extreme

[Shinra1]

Unskilled people will flood urbans, creating giant shitholes all over the world.

Not everyone is going to move, you probably missed the part in the OP from the article that said only a small proportion of people would actually move if borders were opened up. Also low skilled immigration from poor countries to rich countries can benefit the source country since immigrants can send remittances to their home countries, which boosts consumption and investment within those countries, enabling them to provide better opportunities for their residents. Also, the world could perhaps be more efficient if highly skilled, talented people move to countries with better institutions where they can use their skills for good, rather than stay in countries where their skills would be wasted. For example, there are few opportunities for good computer programmers in countries like Uganda compared to the United Kingdom, so if highly skilled programmers from Uganda move, their skills lead to more economic growth overall.

[Machismo]

my advice is to not dismiss that, it is what people see in the real world, outside forums and internet
dismissing this legit concern, or insulting them (you did not) for their concerns about their community and their real life experiences, pushes people to vote extreme

People can have concerns all they like. The issue is that they then turn around and try to oppress others based off of those concerns. Our world is pushing towards authoritarianism at a rather alarming rate. We have increased nationalism, white nationalism, and even straight up fascists gaining traction. One would have hoped the last century would have taught us some things... apparently not.

[igualitarist]

I'm all in favor it getting rid of immigration restrictions. Not only that, get rid of the welfare state. Far too many people feel the need to rely on government to cater to all their whims and desires.

This is my ideal world, but i am also pragmatic.

Really, in the perfect world should not exist borders and people should be able to maintain themselves without government help. But we are far from this utopia, and leaving aside ideologies and being pragmatic, i cant think how a society whithout borders would be functional anytime soon. Basically poor people would floor rich areas, in such proportion those areas would't be able to cope with so much immigration, the result would be... Brazil.

[Independent voter]

Not a bad idea, considering it would empty the favelas here

They would come back home after 4 years driving their big 4 wheel drive ford 150s, honking their horns.

[Shinra1]

Its hard to live with a people whose whole way of thinking is: You are either a muslum or you are a pig. If you get raped you get stoned and so on and so forth.

But yes people keep saying the west is the problem kek

Oh please don't go there because I live in the UK and I know many christians who view non christians as inferior as well so don't try and make that out to be a 'muslim' issue. You're obsessed with muslims. You need to seek help, sir.

[Machismo]

This is my ideal world, but i am also pragmatic.

Really, in the perfect world should not exist borders and people should be able to maintain themselves without government help. But we are far from this utopia, and leaving aside ideologies and being pragmatic, i cant think how a society whithout borders would be functional. Basically poor people would floor rich areas, in such proportion those areas would't be able to cope with so much immigration, the result would be... Brazil.

A society without borders is not an option, so long as humans are asshats (emotional and selfish). It's no different than any utopian society, they are simply impossible. Of course, that does not mean we cannot strive to get close to it. Pragmatism is how we end up with tens of thousands of laws, with each new government adding more on top of the old. It's how slavery was allowed to exist, as well as government-forced segregation, bans on gay marriage, and even stoning victims of rape. All of those are prime examples of oppression that came about out of the path of least resistance.

[ro9ue]

The country being $78 trillion richer doesn't always translate to overall a better life for its citizens. As you can easily see from the US right now where most of those resources are held by a few, and those effects don't "trickle down" to ordinary people.

[Shinra1]

Yeah, the somalis are outperforming the natives. They have some of the lowest education rates among immigrants we've ever had here and lowest employment rates.

It is against the forum rules to discuss posts from other threads in order to try and tarnish people's views of forum users. Having said that, this thread has nothing to do with Somali migrants or mexican migrants for that matter so don't try and single people from certain countries/religions for the purpose of pushing your xenophobic right wing agenda. The truth is that the Somali community is flourishing in the UK and America and Somalis have no problem integrating. Like I've mentioned before Somalis are some of the most hardworking people I've had the pleasure of meeting.

[Player Twelve]

It is against the forum rules to discuss posts from other threads in order to try and tarnish people's views of forum users. Having said that, this thread has nothing to do with Somali migrants or mexican migrants for that matter so don't try and single people from certain countries/religions for the purpose of pushing your xenophobic right wing agenda. The truth is that the Somali community is flourishing in the UK and America and Somalis have no problem integrating. Like I've mentioned before Somalis are some of the most hardworking people I've had the pleasure of meeting.

Nothing you said has any relevance to the fact that the masses from those countries that would have immigration waves, are uneducated and are unemployable.

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Oh please don't go there because I live in the UK and I know many christians who view non christians as inferior as well so don't try and make that out to be a 'muslim' issue. You're obsessed with muslims. You need to seek help, sir.

Oh, ho ho, so we're doing anecdotes? I don't know any christian who views non-christians as inferior but I do know a lot of muslims who don't like non-muslims.

[d00mGuArD]

78 trillion total world wealth means 10k each person on the planet, and that is in a perfect equal system (in reality it means less as in all countries the majority of new wealth goes to few)

For <$10k to have all the troubles that would come with open borders?
Not worth it. At all. Hard pass

[yetgdhfgh]

The best society we humans can do is have controlled immigration and a society that has a healthy mix of Capitalism and Socialism.

Inviting millions of unskilled workers helps noone except those at the top who would exploit them for cheap labour to the detriment of the local population who would rise up in anger.

The only way this could work is if we have unlimited resources or we would need to get rid of the human instinct for greed and tribalism which isnt going away anytime soon!