A world with free immigration could be $78 trillion richer

[Daedius]

In a perfect world, sure... but that is well beyond our scope and possible reach, being humans people always want power.

[Shinra1]

Nothing you said has any relevance to the fact that the masses from those countries that would have immigration waves, are uneducated and are unemployable.

Listen here you jumped up school girl you are really showing your teeth and from where I am standing they're yellow, jacked-up and crooked. Guess what your previous post had nothing to do with this thread yet you felt the need to mount an attack on Somali migrants which nobody was even discussing so excuse me if I gag from the irony of you preaching about remaining on topic. Do they teach reading comprehension in whatever back alley town in Sweden you grew up in or does the curriculum only serve casual racism mixed with bigotry - yes you're a bigot and you know it. Now that I've got that off my chest I can respond to this half-arsed post of yours. Ok I've read it and I've already addressed this in a previous post so I suggest you go back to page 2.

infracted - minor flaming

[Deleted]

Oh please don't go there because I live in the UK and I know many christians who view non christians as inferior as well so don't try and make that out to be a 'muslim' issue. You're obsessed with muslims. You need to seek help, sir.

I dont live in the UK. Where i am from i've never experienced that.

You are obsessed with Christians. You need to seek help, madam.

[yetgdhfgh]

Mods i think this troll bait thread has gone on long enough!

[Martymark]

Multinational Corporations would certainly get richer if they could pay all workers third world slave wages!

[Player Twelve]

Listen here you jumped up school girl you are really showing your teeth and from where I am standing they're yellow, jacked-up and crooked. Guess what your previous post had nothing to do with this thread yet you felt the need to mount an attack on Somali migrants which nobody was even discussing so excuse me if I gag from the irony of you preaching about remaining on topic. Do they teach reading comprehension in whatever back alley town in Sweden you grew up in or does the curriculum only serve casual racism mixed with bigotry - yes you're a bigot and you know it. Now that I've got that off my chest I can respond to this half-arsed post of yours. Ok I've read it and I've already addressed this in a previous post so I suggest you go back to page 2.

It has everything to do with the thread because these people would be moving to the first world countries and drag them down with their low education and employability. Anything else is just wishful thinking.

[Shinra1]

Unskilled people will flood urbans, creating giant shitholes all over the world.

A "flood" implies something bad. Yet the vast majority of immigrants integrate successfully and the economy is better off as a result.

Why do you think immigration isnt being kept to 10s of thousands? Surely that's perfect and will win votes, right?

No. It's because cutting immigration to such levels does too much damage to the economy.

[Player Twelve]

A "flood" implies something bad. Yet the vast majority of immigrants integrate successfully and the economy is better off as a result.

Highly educated immigrants or those who are moving for marriage purposes, yes indeed. The others? No, not really.

[igualitarist]

A society without borders is not an option, so long as humans are asshats (emotional and selfish). It's no different than any utopian society, they are simply impossible. Of course, that does not mean we cannot strive to get close to it. Pragmatism is how we end up with tens of thousands of laws, with each new government adding more on top of the old. It's how slavery was allowed to exist, as well as government-forced segregation, bans on gay marriage, and even stoning victims of rape. All of those are prime examples of oppression that came about out of the path of least resistance.

I see your point (even though i do not agree with all the examples you gave). But there are certain times where pragmatism should prevail over ideological preferences.

I agree we should strive to get close to a world with free immigration, but the only way of doing this is by reducing the huge development gap and wealth inequalites among the countries of the planet.
In the ideal world, everyone should have the right to go anywhere if they feel like so. But in the modern world, i know (being pragmatic) it would cause more harm the good due to the huge inequalities among regions of the globe.

If, lets say, the world decides to free immigration without fixing those issues, the richest regions would be floooded by masses of desperate people. There's nothing wrong with that, considering those people are free to seek for a better life. But the problem is that we would be seeing the biggest migratory movement of human history and its very likely the rich regions receiving immigrants would not be able cope with them. There would be chaos, rise of every kind of crime, and the total colapse of the social fabric of those regions.

[Wewlad]

This would all make perfect sense if we weren't talking about humans.

[Player Twelve]

I see your point (even though i do not agree with all the examples you gave). But there are certain times where pragmatism should prevail over ideological preferences.

I agree we should strive to get close to a world with free immigration, but the only way of doing this is by reducing the huge development gap and wealth inequalites among the countries of the planet.
In the ideal world, everyone should have the right to go anywhere if they feel like so. But in the modern world, i know (being pragmatic) it would cause more harm the good due to the huge inequalities among regions of the globe.

If, lets say, the world decides to free immigration without fixing those issues, the richest regions would be floooded by masses of desperate people. There's nothing wrong with that, considering those people are free to seek for a better life. But the problem is that we would be seeing the biggest migratory movement of human history and its very likely the rich regions receiving immigrants would not be able cope with them. There would be chaos, rise of every kind of crime, and the total colapse of the social fabric of those regions.

You should keep in mind he does not care about crime. All he cares about is his "muh freedom". All of his arguments all end up with "Why are you against freedom?" if you don't agree with him. AnCap for you.

[Shinra1]

I dont live in the UK. Where i am from i've never experienced that.

You are obsessed with Christians. You need to seek help, madam.

So you think that only Muslims think their religion is the only true religion and that all the other religions are false? Oh I guess the Israeli's are fighting the Palestinians for some other reason that has nothing to do with religion or religious self-determination. Oh and I guess catholics and protestants don't exist either.

[Aphrel]

"If the worry is that immigrants will outvote the locals and impose an uncongenial government on them, one solution would be not to let immigrants vote—for five years, ten years or even a lifetime."

"If the worry is that future migrants might not pay their way, why not charge them more for visas, or make them pay extra taxes, or restrict their access to welfare benefits?"

This sounds quite terrible...

[Tijuana]

https://www.economist.com/news/world...ould-be-bribed


[*]- Workers become more productive when they move from a poor country to a richer one with more efficient firms and better capital.

[*]- It is more difficult to transfer better institutions into countries than it is to transfer people from those countries into ones with better institutions.

[*]- Not all people from poor countries necessarily want to immigrate. Only about 13% of workers from a given country want to emigrate to the US/UK/EU given the chance.

[*]- Open borders can actually lead to less overcrowding overall since immigrants from countries where large families are common tend to have smaller families when they immigrate, even if those families are still bigger than those of the native population

[*]- Uses example of the US to show benefits of cultural enrichment brought by waves of immigration from around the world.

[*]- There are solutions to prevent migrants from being a strain on resources or to prevent them from enacting huge political and cultural changes, such as preventing them from voting until x years in the country (after which they will be likely to have assimilated) and preventing them from receiving welfare benefits.


What do you think? The world would be a better place if anyone from any country was free to work in any country of their choice. Even low-skilled immigration can bring a multitude of benefits to an economy. Globalism is the future, nationalism is hindering progress.

It's a ludicrous premise, from my view. It requires the reader to accept the notion that nothing in the countries change, by billions of people moving in. That's just bad science, sorry. It's ridiculous.

[Deleted]

So you think that only Muslims think their religion is the only true religion and that all the other religions are false? Oh I guess the Israeli's are fighting the Palestinians for some other reason that has nothing to do with religion or religious self-determination. Oh and I guess catholics and protestants don't exist either.

1. So you think that only Muslims think their religion is the only true religion and that all the other religions are false?

I think what i said. I have not experienced christians where i am from thinking anyone but christians are pigs. If i meet people like that i will instantly not like them.

2. Oh I guess the Israeli's are fighting the Palestinians for some other reason that has nothing to do with religion or religious self-determination

you can do that all you like

3.Oh and I guess catholics and protestants don't exist either

Thats on you aswell


Where i am from we have trouble with basicly 2 groups of immigrants(out of a shitload). One being polaks where a large % of them are stealing and exporting stolen items.
The other being muslim immigrants from the middle east who are making gang shootings all over our main city in a way that our police hasnt seen before and our laws arent capable of handling.

I'm a realist. I react so the surcumstances that relate to me, my family and the people i care about. I dont mind helping other people, infact i do it a lot, but i dont want to help people who turn against me afterwards.

Call me whatever you want

Edit: i did not see the person was banned before writing this

[Maybach]

it would end up with 90% of the population in western Europe, America, Israel, and Canada

I can understand why you mentioned Western Europe, America and Canada but wtf Israel?

You only have to look at the way non white Jews have been treated there in recent years to see what would await non Jewish migrants

It is not exactly an economic powerhouse either

[George Lucas]

1. So you think that only Muslims think their religion is the only true religion and that all the other religions are false?

I think what i said. I have not experienced christians where i am from thinking anyone but christians are pigs. If i meet people like that i will instantly not like them.

2. Oh I guess the Israeli's are fighting the Palestinians for some other reason that has nothing to do with religion or religious self-determination

you can do that all you like

3.Oh and I guess catholics and protestants don't exist either

Thats on you aswell


Where i am from we have trouble with basicly 2 groups of immigrants(out of a shitload). One being polaks where a large % of them are stealing and exporting stolen items.
The other being muslim immigrants from the middle east who are making gang shootings all over our main city in a way that our police hasnt seen before and our laws arent capable of handling.

I'm a realist. I react so the surcumstances that relate to me, my family and the people i care about. I dont mind helping other people, infact i do it a lot, but i dont want to help people who turn against me afterwards.

Call me whatever you want

Edit: i did not see the person was banned before writing this

But what about the crusades? Checkmate!

[Sentynel]

Who will eat all those kebab?

[Tijuana]

So you think that only Muslims think their religion is the only true religion and that all the other religions are false? Oh I guess the Israeli's are fighting the Palestinians for some other reason that has nothing to do with religion or religious self-determination. Oh and I guess catholics and protestants don't exist either.

The Isrealis are not "fighting with the Palestinians". They are constantly attacked by the Palestinians, and occasionally respond with force. It's pretty much a one way deal. Being critical of Israel is anyone's right. But what you are doing is just blatant antisemitism, to call the victims the aggressors.

[enragedgorilla]

Short of it ? It ignores a LOT of influential, important outlying tangents and costs associated with this.
Their statements are "true" if they ignore all the other trillions in costs that would come with this.