#MeToo and why its become useless

[Deleted]

None of what you said in any way changes the fact that the car was stolen. So no, there is no "so and so asked for it so the crime is suddenly not a crime" scenario, except in the context of sexual assault apparently.

You know what it does change? Who bares the responsibility, fun how you ignore the fact that you won't be compensated by your insurance..

Victim blaming is always a no-no. But let's not be obtuse and claim it isn't used in prevalence to justify sexual assault.

So the insurance company should pay out when you have gotten your car stolen because you failed to lock it? Not very likely that this will happen.. Justifying something isn't the same as explaining something, something might not be justified even though the outcome was clearly predictable.

also like how you marginalized sexual assault by implying females are making a big deal out of something. I didn't realize rape and it's ilk were just things people need to not consider all that big a deal.

So getting grabbed is being raped now? Not all sexual assault is rape. Meanwhile when you get raped you should go to the police, not to twitter.

I don't disagree with this, however good luck changing human nature, companies that care about PR, etc., etc.

so that makes #metoo bad, no?

Fair enough I suppose, but I think suing a few and winning those cases would probably suffice if it is indeed slander.

Not really, just look at the matrass girl and the guy she accused, he can't get a job, he was kicked from school and she made an "art project" out off it.

Um, what did you read? I said absolutely nothing close to this.

My point was for you to demonstrate that yours is consistent. You have expressed clearly that you don't want people torn down over false accusations, presumably based on your posts, because there is no evidence that they have committed a crime. Therefore it should conversely be true that you don't want to see accusers torn down until there is evidence to prove they have raised false accusations, right?

And im trying to demonstrate that if you where consistent then you should be okay with that too. You want people to be able to make accusations that ruin peoples lives without any form of evidence. So if no evidence is needed then when the accused sues for defamation?

Honestly, what i would like to see is just not outing people and that this stuff is handled by the courts. No names should be released until after the court hearing, and if no conviction was made then the names should be withheld indefinitely. So no court of opinion at all. This way you won't have people accused by the public opinion boards and innocent people with ruined lives, but the police still gets to investigate everything and everything gets decided in court.

Capable and willing are two different things.

They are capable and willing, it is just very difficult when one person claims rape while the other claims it was consensual. Again what this comes down to is personal responsibilities, dont be in situations that put you at risk. This goes for everything, not just sexual encounters, but again, pointing this out is seen as victim blaming while it is perfectly valid to point out that someone should have locked their car and take the keys with them when their car gets stolen. It doesnt make it your fault that the car got stolen, it is how ever a very good explanation as to why your car got stolen. This doesn't mean that the police wont do everything they can to get your car back, but you will be held responsible by the insurance company.

[tyrlaan]

You know what it does change? Who bares the responsibility, fun how you ignore the fact that you won't be compensated by your insurance..

It's still a crime. I'm not talking insurance. You are. Unless there is sexual assault insurance, I don't think this angle you keep trying to force the conversation down holds merit. Remember we're talking about your take on victim blaming being only a no-no in the context of sexual assault and insinuations by you that actions/inactions that are the target of victim blaming might justify a crime not being a crime. I think insurance talk is a tad off course.

So getting grabbed is being raped now? Not all sexual assault is rape. Meanwhile when you get raped you should go to the police, not to twitter.

I said "rape and it's ilk" because I was tired of writing sexual assault a billion times. No need to be obtuse to try to make a point.

so that makes #metoo bad, no?

Of course not. It makes certain behaviors of a subset of people within the MeToo movement bad. Are all vegetables disgusting if you don't like brussel sprouts?

Not really, just look at the matrass girl and the guy she accused, he can't get a job, he was kicked from school and she made an "art project" out off it.

Unaware of this case - link/source?

And im trying to demonstrate that if you where consistent then you should be okay with that too. You want people to be able to make accusations that ruin peoples lives without any form of evidence. So if no evidence is needed then when the accused sues for defamation?

Where have I stated this?

Honestly, what i would like to see is just not outing people and that this stuff is handled by the courts. No names should be released until after the court hearing, and if no conviction was made then the names should be withheld indefinitely. So no court of opinion at all. This way you won't have people accused by the public opinion boards and innocent people with ruined lives, but the police still gets to investigate everything and everything gets decided in court.

<and>

They are capable and willing, it is just very difficult when one person claims rape while the other claims it was consensual. Again what this comes down to is personal responsibilities, dont be in situations that put you at risk. This goes for everything, not just sexual encounters, but again, pointing this out is seen as victim blaming while it is perfectly valid to point out that someone should have locked their car and take the keys with them when their car gets stolen. It doesnt make it your fault that the car got stolen, it is how ever a very good explanation as to why your car got stolen. This doesn't mean that the police wont do everything they can to get your car back, but you will be held responsible by the insurance company.

Herein lies one of the problems. In theory, what you would like to see should work. But reality has demonstrated for years that it doesn't work that way and we have clear issues with the "willing" part.

The end result of MeToo and similar pushes should probably be something like what you propose. Unfortunately we're not there yet. until then, lambasting all of MeToo for the actions of some just feels short sighted or an attempt to reinforce the societal crap that has let this fester for so long. I know you've scoffed at the reality of the male dominant society we live in, so I doubt you will agree with me on this part.

[Elegiac]

I'm a business owner, and currently need to hire an assistant office manager. I am 100% not going to hire a woman right now.

And I sincerely hope you get taken to court as a result of this policy.

[Deleted]

And I sincerely hope you get taken to court as a result of this policy.

Pretty sure thats not something you advertise with.

[Babadoo]

Listen.. #metoo is one of the best orchestrated witchhunts in this century.
As a man, you cannot defend yourself anymore. Anyone can claim anything and get attention. Reputation ruined.
Anything that will disprove a claim will not be interesting for the media so you won't get to hear any of it.

This is why #metoo is dissipating. When #metoo could've been great imo. I am a guy. I really dislike people like Weinstein. But this shit should be atleast decently proved instead of just "revealed". Weinstein to me is a case closed. But others are not as convincing.

The revolution devours its own children. It's already happening.

[Deleted]

It's still a crime. I'm not talking insurance. You are. Unless there is sexual assault insurance, I don't think this angle you keep trying to force the conversation down holds merit. Remember we're talking about your take on victim blaming being only a no-no in the context of sexual assault and insinuations by you that actions/inactions that are the target of victim blaming might justify a crime not being a crime. I think insurance talk is a tad off course.

I am saying that you are held responsible for the theft of your own car in such a situation. That doesn't excuse the person who stole your car, but you are still hold responsible for not locking it.

I said "rape and it's ilk" because I was tired of writing sexual assault a billion times. No need to be obtuse to try to make a point.

Its not just rape that is #metoo

Of course not. It makes certain behaviors of a subset of people within the MeToo movement bad. Are all vegetables disgusting if you don't like brussel sprouts?

Yea no, all vegetables are horrible when you have no idea what you are eating and deadly allergic to brussels-sprouts.

Unaware of this case - link/source?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columb...pe_controversy

Where have I stated this?

Every time you think #metoo is a good thing states it.

Herein lies one of the problems. In theory, what you would like to see should work. But reality has demonstrated for years that it doesn't work that way and we have clear issues with the "willing" part.

The end result of MeToo and similar pushes should probably be something like what you propose. Unfortunately we're not there yet. until then, lambasting all of MeToo for the actions of some just feels short sighted or an attempt to reinforce the societal crap that has let this fester for so long. I know you've scoffed at the reality of the male dominant society we live in, so I doubt you will agree with me on this part.

Im sorry, but i have never seen any unwillingness by the police to work a rape case. Yes they might ask questions that you don't like, but that is their job, they have to ask these question in order to understand the situation and to make a picture of what happened. That people revert back into "but you are victim blaming me" isn't helpful to the police nor to their investigation.

It isn't about reinforcing societal crap, that is all you, it is about proven guilty and nothing else. Two wrongs do not make a right, it never has and never will, #metoo is trying to make a right with yet another wrong, that is all that there is to this. If you want to change something then come with a better plan, nailing random people on the cross of #metoo isn't it.

[Mistame]

The #metoo movement is about doing the one thing angry meninists have been DEMANDING we do.

Actually reporting it.

While I do feel it's important for actual victims to come forward, the issue lies in the fact that it's been hijacked by people using the movement to garner their 15 minutes of victim-hood by citing shit that's either irrelevant or inconsequential.

[sarahtasher]

Again, are edgelords dimly aware that even the Old Testament and the Koran are not casually dismissing rape accusations without witnesses (hint : the vast majority of rapes) as ''ur ur ur, she wanted it'') ?

And btw, it's not my fault if the USA is a country where ''I did stuff other than the missionary with closed lights'' or ''I cheated on my wife'' are career killers (accusing someone in France of having extra marital sex would confuse the immense majority of Frenchmen...)

[plagueshard801]

And I sincerely hope you get taken to court as a result of this policy.

You aren't alone there. But know this!

I fully believe a woman could both handle and excel at the job. At the same time, I have heard women here use #MeToo as a verb, "he shouldn't be such a dick, the wrong person might #MeToo his ass". This was directed at someone I know, who is in fact an asshole, but not in a crude or sexually abusive manner he's just cold hard business.

There are people exploiting the shit out of this movement, and it's scary when you have things to lose.

[Mister Cheese]

#metoo hasn't been useful since day one. Has it brought to light the issues in hollywood? Maybe. But it doesn't really affect the average Joe. They don't care about what happens in LA where the 1% sexually harass eachother for money. These people should be going to the police. Not going on twitter 20 some odd years later and saying "SO AND SO RUINED ME!"

[Dajeki]

And I sincerely hope you get taken to court as a result of this policy.

Why? Personal reasons or not, you can hire woman for jobs modeling woman's cloths, or as a waiter at "Hooters", you wouldn't hire a man for the job. As an owner, he find he works and is more productive with a male assistant, why would you be taken to court for that? You should totally have the right to hire whoever you would like.

That would be like telling an owner he cant hire his son to the business because it wouldn't be fair because he has something over someone else.

Call me sexist, why do people, woman more than men, think they are entitled to a position or that your sex has nothing to do with anything in this world.

As a gay man, I have to understand that not all positions or jobs in the world are acceptable for my personality,(how man people are going to take me serious talking about selling a gun, or construction) or allow me to be productive as a I need to be. My physique is another deciding factor.
If he cant be as productive because of a "Distraction" or the perceived job requirements, that should be his prerogative.

Everyone wants to be a social justice warrior instead of remembering that people have the right to offend you.

On a same note, we are currently allowing bakeries to turn away gay weddings. WHY would I care? There are thousands of cake makers, if you want to be a bigot , go for it, society will work itself out.

"I" (being the key word) have to go through a little more work than other people trying to find a baker to bake my cake? WELCOME TO THE WORLD.
people need to start worrying about "I" instead of "YOU".

"What do I need to do to make my life better" not "What do YOU need to do to make my life better"

Not mention woman put soo much tension in the room because everything is "#metoo" a friendly male pat on the back or spending too much time monitoring work can be perceived as "Rape" and then you are fighting whole other problems in the work place

[cubby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNwuaOQEMkE

Mob mentality in the US.

Anarchy apparently rules on twitter and for some mornonic reason what a big group of just absolute idiots say on twitter has effect on the real world.

There is so much weird going on in the US atm. As a dane i just cant understand it. Why do you guys bow under for this? Arent you guys supposed to stand up for whats right - the american way - american heroes and such?

These twitter users are obviously completely fucking moronic(sorry)

Edit:
Just editing here to write what the video contains. Its a video defending Matt Damon and his recent talks about the #MeToo "movement". Apparently 20k rabid twitter females and their gamma male partners are accusing him of being on pair with a rapist

Even the founder of Twitter is almost literally sorry he invented it.

To your larger point - we (the U.S.) is in dire straights. It's hoped that we will cast aside those responsible and come out stronger - that this is just a dip in our country's growth - and we won't allow this to happen again. However, there is also the fear that is the beginning of the end for our young country, and only hate and violence will follow. What emerges from that hypothetical future is only scary.

[shimerra]

Not sure why I'm bothering to reply to one of the dumbest SJWs on mmo-c, but hey.

Not sure if you really don't grasp his point, or just pretending, but he's not pissed that people are judging. Judge away, everyone does, to some extent. He's pissed that in the current climate, all it takes to ruin a man's ENTIRE FUCKING LIFE, is "X Amadeus X raped me. #metoo". And that's it. You're done, especially if you're famous. No proof, no trial, nothing, just a witchhunt. Set him on fire, see if he burns.

Look at Gary Oldman for example. He was granted custody of his kids, his wife admitted to making shit up to destroy him, and yet yesterday THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE lost their shit when "KNOWN WIFE ABUSER" won an oscar. Luckily SOME people still bother to read past the headlines, and actually know the truth, but still vast majority of society is so fucking brainwashed by the media, that they will believe ANYTHING at this point. Even when some random, completely unknown person accuses someone of rape that "happened" 30 fucking years ago. Right.

Another great example lately was Azis Ansari. Chicks are so dumb nowadays, that despite the fact that she went home with him, got naked, both performed and received oral, all of the above voluntarily, later on she still decides she's a VICTIM and #metoo. And guy who did nothing "wrong" (altough, admittedly, he did behave like a moron) is still all over the internet in the company of Weinsteins of the world. You honestly want to tell me you see nothing wrong with it?

Rape used to mean forced sexual intercourse. Nowadays, it means whatever the chick thinks it means. Consensual sex, and regret the next day? Rape. Fucking some random dude in the club, afraid the boyfriend will find out? Rape. Getting it on with a below-average dude, afraid of being judged by friends? Rape. Getting drunk, blowing a guy, sobering up and regretting it? Rape. Hell, nowadays even straight up rejecting some chick may be rape in her eyes, since with their inflated egos they handle rejection REALLY badly...

Not going to wreck your entire misogynistic wa wa women are mean to me post blow by blow but just point out one little thing. Harvey Weinstein. His bullshit was basically one of the worst kept secrets in hollywood and he got away with it for decades. And he's defiantly not the only one. Remember that college kid that got out after 3 months for literally raping an unconscious girl with multiple witnesses? Under reporting and people getting away with sexual assault has been a much bigger problem for much longer than your poor "But if one chick says rape and it really wasn't all men are ruined!" nonsense. Not like you give a shit about the people who get away with rape as long as this gaggle of women throwing false accusations is afoot!



You don't get to whine about people being brainwashed with a rant like that. You're the opposite extreme of the pathetic strawman your victim complex has constructed.

[Elegiac]

I fully believe a woman could both handle and excel at the job. At the same time, I have heard women here use #MeToo as a verb, "he shouldn't be such a dick, the wrong person might #MeToo his ass". This was directed at someone I know, who is in fact an asshole, but not in a crude or sexually abusive manner he's just cold hard business.

This is about as factual as the people claim that they consistently get shit for being white.

I.e. not at all.

- - - Updated - - -

Why?

Because hiring discrimination on the basis of sex is a) bad, and b) illegal.

Personal reasons or not, you can hire woman for jobs modeling woman's cloths, or as a waiter at "Hooters", you wouldn't hire a man for the job.

I would. Personally I think we need to start breaking down demographic segregation in advertising.

As an owner, he find he works and is more productive with a male assistant, why would you be taken to court for that? You should totally have the right to hire whoever you would like.

The issue is not who is better qualified or more productive, the issue is refusing to hire women because women.

That would be like telling an owner he cant hire his son to the business because it wouldn't be fair because he has something over someone else.

You're intentionally not grasping the mechanics of protected classes, lol.

Call me sexist, why do people, woman more than men, think they are entitled to a position or that your sex has nothing to do with anything in this world.

As a gay man, I have to understand that not all positions or jobs in the world are acceptable for my personality,(how man people are going to take me serious talking about selling a gun, or construction) or allow me to be productive as a I need to be. My physique is another deciding factor.
If he cant be as productive because of a "Distraction" or the perceived job requirements, that should be his prerogative.

Everyone wants to be a social justice warrior instead of remembering that people have the right to offend you.

On a same note, we are currently allowing bakeries to turn away gay weddings. WHY would I care? There are thousands of cake makers, if you want to be a bigot , go for it, society will work itself out.

"I" (being the key word) have to go through a little more work than other people trying to find a baker to bake my cake? WELCOME TO THE WORLD.
people need to start worrying about "I" instead of "YOU".

"What do I need to do to make my life better" not "What do YOU need to do to make my life better"

Not mention woman put soo much tension in the room because everything is "#metoo" a friendly male pat on the back or spending too much time monitoring work can be perceived as "Rape" and then you are fighting whole other problems in the work place

What a complete load of garbage. As I said, you're intentionally not grasping the mechanics behind protected classes and the reasons why anti-discrimination legislation exists in the first place.

Hint: It isn't to subvert meritocracy.

[tyrlaan]

I am saying that you are held responsible for the theft of your own car in such a situation. That doesn't excuse the person who stole your car, but you are still hold responsible for not locking it.

Great, not sure how this is relevant to your victim blaming beefs, unless you are someone who prescribes to "if she didn't want it she shouldn't have dressed like that"

Its not just rape that is #metoo

I don't... what... how the? WTF are you on about here? Clearly I know it's not just rape because I wrote "rape and its ilk" and then clarified for you (because you were being obtuse) and said "sexual assault" and now you are acting like I don't know that MeToo is about more than just rape. Like wtaf?

Yea no, all vegetables are horrible when you have no idea what you are eating and deadly allergic to brussels-sprouts.

Congratulations for finding a corner case for my analogy. I assume you want this to actually apply to what I said, which means you find any attempts to raise awareness around sexual assault and finding justice for its victims to be anathema to you?

Alternatively, perhaps your just being pedantic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columb...pe_controversy

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Every time you think #metoo is a good thing states it.

No, this is fundamentally untrue. It's ONLY true if you choose to believe that MeToo is only about baseless accusations. I get that you feel this way, but feels are not facts.


Anyway... I can't with you anymore. I thought we were arguing in good faith but you seem willing to do as much as you can to alter context to your benefit, come up with pedantic corner cases, etc. rather than have a real conversation. Ironically, I don't think we disagree by all that much, the most notable sticking point being my acknowledgment of a patriarchal problem and your dismissal of it. In the meantime, if you want an internet cookie for me not wanting to argue with you anymore, I'm sure Google can find one for you.

[plagueshard801]

This is about as factual as the people claim that they consistently get shit for being white.

I.e. not at all.

Oh my bad, so... you were there? Or have been around me enough to have any claim to say this never happened?

[ohwell]

I don’t agree at all I think the entire #MeeToo is a long time coming and a conversation that’s taken too long to have I support it with warts in all even parts I strongly disagree. Or rather the people.

I love that it’s shaking things up it shouldn’t be a fad.

Why aren't women who sexually harass people at jobs to get their way not being punished. It is a known fact that women sit and have done these things for decades. "Oh I reaaaaaaaally need that promotion you big sexy man!"

[Elegiac]

Oh my bad, so... you were there? Or have been around me enough to have any claim to say this never happened?

I'm claiming that it's BS because a) it's an anecdote and not a useful study for policy and b) given that we're apparently reducing social policy to anecdotes, countering with mine that I've never witnessed it happening therefore it's BS.

- - - Updated - - -

Why aren't women who sexually harass people at jobs to get their way not being punished. It is a known fact that women sit and have done these things for decades. "Oh I reaaaaaaaally need that promotion you big sexy man!"

Real life isn't a cheap late 90's porno, just so you're aware.

[ohwell]

This is about as factual as the people claim that they consistently get shit for being white.

I.e. not at all.

lol there's visible proof on the internet and in reality of racism against white people that's not only tolerated, but applauded. You're a part of the problem although I guess denying it exists is better than teaching racism against white people under the guise of being a legitimate college class.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm claiming that it's BS because a) it's an anecdote and not a useful study for policy and b) given that we're apparently reducing social policy to anecdotes, countering with mine that I've never witnessed it happening therefore it's BS.

- - - Updated - - -



Real life isn't a cheap late 90's porno, just so you're aware.

I've seen it happen, but hey be a rape denier. Time to dox you. That's what MeToo is about right? Time to ruin your life for denying something factual happens.

[Elegiac]

lol there's visible proof on the internet

There's visible proof on the internet of el chupacabra existing, too. Really gets my goat.

and in reality of racism against white people that's not only tolerated, but applauded.

No, but okay.

You're a part of the problem although I guess denying it exists is better than teaching racism against white people under the guise of being a legitimate college class.

Probably my most grievous sin in that regard is making fun of "the way white people is"; i.e. jabs at stereotypical conventions of white culture, particularly in the South and the suburbs.

But claiming that white people are inferior and should be exterminated or oppressed as a result? Lolwut?