Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Deleted]

But hey, if you did get past the appearance you wouldn't be posting here, would you? You'd be playing your Velf in sweet silence.

This makes no sense. Appearance is the only reason why High Elf fan would play a Void Elf in the first place since this is the only similar thing to High Elves they have.

[baskev]

so you just want blood elves with blue eyes?

Nope,



Ingame left is how most ( NOT ALL) of the time blood elves are shown, right is high elves. Look for instance at the suramar city cinematic there pretty much all of the high elf and blood elf army's have the different style looks like this.

If you look at that they are different skin color, most of the time have different hair color. ( high elves being more white, pale etc. and blood elves being more sun tanned and golden hair). Also because of their source of power blood elves have green ( fel) or yellow ( holy/light) eyes vs high elves blue eyes ( arcana mana magic).

So they already have ingame different eye colors ( very different) and different skin and hair color....
Then they are political different ( high elves still believe in the alliance etc) vs blood elves do not. Hench they chose a new name.


And no i do not want high elves, i accept the fact blizzard wants to keep the white elf look just for the horde.
But i think that void elves could have been a better cross between what they are now and high elves.
And like i said, its not just the not getting high elves. Its every god damm thing the horde has gotten better in the last few expansions.

[Andromedes]

Is this the same forsaken that is led by a Blood Elf and comprised partially of undead Blood Elves?

I dont even know what you are talking about. You should rather say when and how Alliance betrayed high elves in their hour of need. Because i dont see it.

[Deleted]

Is this the same forsaken that is led by a Blood Elf and comprised partially of undead Blood Elves?

Yes? It is them who betrayed High Elves in the hour of need, after all.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Well at least we agree that the humans betrayed the High Elves and the Alliance cannot be trusted.

[Deleted]

Well at least we agree that the humans betrayed the High Elves and the Alliance cannot be trusted.

It was Lordaeron, which are current Forsaken.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

It was Lordaeron, which are current Forsaken.

So what's your point?

[Andromedes]

It wasnt even Lordaeron. Nobody betrayed anyone.. Lordaeron was first to fall ffs.

[Evilfish]

This makes no sense. Appearance is the only reason why High Elf fan would play a Void Elf in the first place since this is the only similar thing to High Elves they have.

No shit...

So, you have the model. Roleplay some damned High Elf if you must instead of weeping about how Blizzard hates you just cause they won't snatch what's left of Belfs and give it to the Alliance, cause the Alliance is that much entitled to them cause... they whined for a REALLY long time. Thankfully it does not seem to work that way, at least as far races are concerned.

Ion told you to chill and enjoy either a Velf or a Belf. Why the devil are you still complaining when you have so many options?

[Andromedes]

Ion told you to chill and enjoy either a Velf or a Belf. Why the devil are you still complaining when you have so many options?

Because Ion clearly doesnt even know lore, contradicts himself with existence of void elves and does stupid gameplay decisions. We have right to say, that we arent satisfied with his stupid decisions.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Isn't it funny that when it comes to revisionist history you seem to be implying that the Blood Elves essentially betrayed themselves and the forsaken were humans, but when it comes to who owns the lands of Lodaeron somehow these same people have no legitimate claim?

When bad things happen they are horde but when good things happen they are Alliance.

When are you going to come to terms with the fact that every single catastrophe that has befallen Azeroth is because of the Alliance? When are you going to accept that the Alliance is Evil.

And the High Elves will never join an evil faction.

[Andromedes]

When bad things happen they are horde but when good things happen they are Alliance.

Oh yes, just like Alliance is responsible for Garithos' actions but horde isnt responsible for Orgrim's invasion to quel thalas.

[RangerDaz]

More likely it is consistent with the lore, that the vast majority of the remaining High Elves are Farstriders who may have served with the Alliance in the Second War combined with those High Elf Mages who remained loyal to Dalaran and didn't accompany either Jaina to Theramore or Kael back home.

When Silver Covenant NPCs are present, it is almost always in the context of Dalaran. The famous example of the High Elven force at Suramar was actually a Kirin Tor army after all, as you can see Kirin Tor peacekeepers accompanying the Silver Covenant.

The Silver Covenant is a Dalaran based paramilitary force. It is technically neutral, even if the membership is loyal to the Alliance. So that these 7th Legion Mages (and there are only two of them in the entirety of the warfront) are tagged is Silver Covenant is unsurprising. It emphasises that the few remaining High Elves are really gathered under one roof, but that the SC itself isn't an overtly Alliance organization as the Kirin Tor is now neutral again. Those High Elves who wish to serve the Alliance must do wearing a different hat, that of the 7th Legion.

But Daz, it doesn't mean there is a secret resistance inside Blizzard sneaking in High Elves to spite Ion. As I have explained, there is a rational and consistent lore explanation for those NPCs being tagged as Silver Covenant that does not contradict previous commentary.

The Silver Covenant isn't only about Dalaran Mages. There are also Hunters for example, like Vereesa. And Vereesa has become their leader in the absence of another High Elf figure than hasn't disappeared, killed or gone Horde. Also they haven't been neutral but always pro alliance, and we can clearly see that in Wrath of the Lich King and in Mists of Pandaria. That is why they haven't moved to Silvermoon and pledged loyalty to Lorthemar.

Also about the invasion of Suramar, one thing was the Kirin Tor army, the other thing was the Quel'dorei army following Vereesa, aka the Silver Covenant and the High Elf Dalaran Mages, which also belonged to the Kirin Tor army, but they weren't the ONLY representatives of the Kirin Tor there.

I can agree with you about "The Silver Covenant is a Dalaran based paramilitary force.", but i strongly disagree that the Silver Covenant "is technically neutral"


PS: Do remember Vereesa was Rhonin's wife. Dalaran human mages and the High Elves loyal to Vereesa had a very solid alliance, and Vereesa was always hostile to the Horde (red above her name to horde players) in Northrend's Dalaran. So her high elves from the Silver Covenant are allies with the kirin tor, but first they follow her alliegences and guidance, especially after the bombing of Theramore made by the horde, which killed many allies including Rhonin, which surely garanteed their split from the horde loyal blood elves.

I feel like there's an even simpler reason for why things are the way they are. A forum goer asked: "Do the blizzard employees debate about the High elf/Blood elf race definition, especially when all those repeated threads pop up?"

Ythisens answer: "Ever since we found out Allied Races were a confirmed thing we've talked about the idea of who/what could be an allied race all the time. It's a never ending conversation now because of the possibilities it opens up as playable races. We actually love the large discussions it's popped up among you guys. I mean megathreads that are spanning tens of thousands of posts total across all of the capped threads? That's just cool. No other feature in WoW as an idea has had that much engagement."

Simply put, they enjoy these types of Allied Race discussions popping up, because engagement = more people attached to the game = more money in the end honestly.

The fact that nothing is as hotly debated as Allied Races, and in particular the High Elf/Blood Elf discussion is something Blizzard enjoys seeing precisely because both sides of the camp are able to formulate arguments for their side and shows a crazy amount of engagement around this topic compared to say people talking about Ogres or even Night Elf Worgen or Centaur/Grovekeeper like Allied Races. The only other discussion having next to as much engagement is the San'layn/Darkfallen threads, another ELF type thread.

It's clear to see where the interest lies and I don't doubt with the amount of audience that WoW has that these similar topics happen internally at Blizzard.

I also don't doubt there is a divide internally among Blizzard who wishes for High Elves on Alliance and those who don't. I mean we can see this in the follow up question to the above: "To piggyback on that, what player/forum debates are most mirrored among Blizzard staff?"

Ythisens answer: "Lore, Allied Races, class design, best expansion, best raid. Other than some of the language of course it's very similar as far as broad topics. We discuss them a little differently but I giggle sometimes when I see people debating about something I read on the forums earlier that day."

Basically they debate about pretty much the similar things players debate about.

I also didn't doubt that High Elves wouldn't come out so soon after Void Elves, so answering the question of "the near term" was easy for Ion since no way in hell would they release a 2nd elf race so quickly on the heel of one just released.

I agree with you in almost everything.

The highly engagement topics = survival of WoW is an interesting point of view, but, just like you say, the developer debates also mirror the debates in fan websites. I can clearly imagine anti-High Elf developers behaving exactly like anti High Elf fans, although they also know engagement = more subs up. But there are some things i bet people like Ion want to die in the forums, and I am sure that High Elves in Alliance is one of them. After what he said in the Q&A sounded like he wanted the topic just to end once and for all, and if it continues it will be a burden for him exclusively, which means that in the future he might be forced to oficially change Blizzard's speech about it. We can see he is quite narcisistic!

But i do have faith in the future that they will be available. After all it is probably one of the best baits to bring back unsubbed players.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

You cannot isolate the reasons from the request from one another. Whilst some players wanted to play a SC elf, others clearly just wanted the skin tone. They were campaigning for a 'normal' skin tone on a Void Elf and that would have satisfied them. But if they would have been satisfied with a normal skin on a Void Elf, that is still a Void Elf and not an Alliance High Elf. I am sure he was aware that there was a group seeking to play traditional High Elves in the Alliance, but too much of the feedback received on Void Elves was on the skin tone.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...0948166?page=1

That was the tenth void elf thread and it links all the previous threads. While Ion may carry some blame for a potential misinterpretation, the feedback sent to Blizzard WAS recorded and it is unfortunate it has left the impression it did.

That impression seems to be the desire for an Alliance High Elf is a desire for a pale skinned blonde elf. The problem is, the impression is only wrong if Blizzard believes it is the sole motivating factor in requests for High Elf, which it clearly is not.

But there is plentiful evidence that it is in fact a large driving force behind the desire for High Elves. That is something you will have to accept, that many of your fellow travellers don't care about the lore and really do just want the pale skinned pretty elf. Some of course seek the pale skins to roleplay the high elf better, but I believe that to be a minority position.

But it is you the one that is isolating the aesthetic opinion here, and justifying Ion for doing so as well. Whether it was more vocal is highly up for debate, and to justthat as justification to not address the factional grivances me and other have, and still do to this day, is very dismissive. Like you can't blame me or others like minded for the opinions of those that just want white elves, it irresponsable to generalize like that. And to try to justify that we weren't heard because they were loud enough so tough titties, it's a very shitty thing to do.

And while you call to those VE threads, let's not be disingenuous, those are about the macro-problem with VE as a concept, so really, don't try to just present those whole conversations as just about the skin tone.

I would not regard it as a compromise. Given the model is now shared, aesthetic and lore is all that separates a Void Elf and a Blood Elf. At the moment the divide is just a whisker from being too close, from blurring the faction wall. What you have now in the Void Elves is the compromise. Any further step towards the pro High Elf position would be too far. And in case you think I sound unreasonable, I think they have already gone 95% of the way towards your position by granting the Alliance a thalassian elf variant in the first place. It is important to me that the integrity of both the Horde and the Blood Elves is respected. Void Elves do that but only just. In fact it is such a close thing I consider it a deliberate choice, they went as far as they could without breaching the red lines, even tiptoeing up the line as close as they could.

But Void Elves cannot be the compromise for HE because they are just not the HE we wanted on the first place, so ALREADY there is no compromise beyond half a aesthetic. So like half a point of 2 major ones is not really a compromise for people that wanted HE on the first place. Like we would have saved us this WHOLE ISSUSE if VE had been made out of HE, so it was a continuation of their lore. So yeah, building any idea on top of the misstep that were VE is already going to be shakey.

So with that in mind, If VE could look more like HE, that would at least be 1 point of 2. Again, considering what we have as this is by no means ideal, and certainly that does not satisfy you so already doesn't work as a compromise. And again, all of this would simply be a hollow fix, but that might be enough for some HE players, in the way you can envision your Mag'har as an Outland one.

Wouldn't it have been so much better if we had had the lore then?

I too would not mind confirmation that the Void Elves can replicate the process. At the moment it is at best implied. It maybe left unresolved for quiet sometime. If this is a question of roleplaying though, then the best answer would be to imagine your character either fell in with Umbric before the transformation or was transformed after.

But TBH our own roleplay is irrelavant to the whole Lore issue. That's up to everyone. The issue is about High Elf lore, IMO it has always been, so regardless if my character drinks the flavor aid, the important bit for HE as a whole is to have that "becoming part of the VE" as a way going forward. That would satisfy me.

[Deleted]

No shit...

You realise you answered "no shit" to me debunking your own statement?

So, you have the model.

I don't care about the BE model. When I talked about appearances, I talked about why some HE fans might want to play VE, I didn't actually mean myself.

Roleplay some damned High Elf if you must

Tough luck, I don't roleplay.

instead of weeping about how Blizzard hates you just cause they won't snatch what's left of Belfs and give it to the Alliance,

If I'll tell you that playable HE will not remove BE, will you also reply to me "no shit"?

Ion told you to chill and enjoy either a Velf or a Belf. Why the devil are you still complaining when you have so many options?

Why, Lisa, why?!!!

So what's your point?

That's the closest people that are to blame for what happened to High Elves are in the Horde.

[Evilfish]

You realise you answered "no shit" to me debunking your own statement?


I don't care about the BE model. When I talked about appearances, I talked about why some HE fans might want to play VE, I didn't actually mean myself.


Tough luck, I don't roleplay.


If I'll tell you that playable HE will not remove BE, will you also reply to me "no shit"?



Why, Lisa, why?!!!

What's with you fixation on debunked arguments? It wasn't a god damned argument. All of you here likely have either or both a belf and velf and you are still not satisfied. That is a fact, or otherwise you wouldn't be here. So kindly stop trying to debunk the obvious.

And honestly I find it REALLY hard to believe you fellas don't care about the Belf model when you are so distraught by skin color. So I'm calling your BS.

And perhaps you should start roleplaying. That's probably the only way you'll get a high elf.

And while there's no way they could remove something that was added, especially something like a race and that's part of your problem I'm betting you are counting on that to get your Helfs added. So yeah, it wouldn't remove Blefs, it would, however cheapen them further, slice their lore in half and worse of all, prove to everyone how well whining works, no matter how unreasonable.

[Deleted]

What's with you fixation on debunked arguments? It wasn't a god damned argument.

I never said it was an argument, I said it was a statement, I simply explained why it was nonsensical and you agreed that it was nonsensical, so, congrats?

All of you here likely have either or both a belf and velf and you are still not satisfied. That is a fact, or otherwise you wouldn't be here. So kindly stop trying to debunk the obvious.

Lol, I have neither. I don't play Horde and I don't even have BfA. So yeah, your 'fact' ended with the very person you said it to.

And honestly I find it REALLY hard to believe you fellas don't care about the Belf model when you are so distraught by skin color. So I'm calling your BS.

Did I say skin colour? I said I don't care about the model. I would prefer High Elves to be High Elves as they are though, hence not purple, for example.

And perhaps you should start roleplaying. That's probably the only way you'll get a high elf.

Who are you exactly for you to tell me what to do, lol?

And while there's no way they could remove something that was added, especially something like a race and that's part of your problem I'm betting you are counting on that to get your Helfs added.

I am counting on BEs being removed?

So yeah, it wouldn't remove Blefs, it would, however cheapen them further, slice their lore in half and worse of all, prove to everyone how well whining works, no matter how unreasonable.

You are too late

Man, your answers are hilarious. You are either high and way too tilted to think clearly.

[Evilfish]

I never said it was an argument, I said it was a statement, I simply explained why it was nonsensical and you agreed that it was nonsensical, so, congrats?


Lol, I have neither. I don't play Horde and I don't even have BfA. So yeah, your 'fact' ended with the very person you said it to.


Did I say skin colour? I said I don't care about the model. I would prefer High Elves to be High Elves as they are though, hence not purple, for example.


Who are you exactly for you to tell me what to do, lol?



I am counting on BEs being removed?


You are too late

Man, your answers are hilarious. You are either high and way too tilted to think clearly.

Ok, you said statement. But you debunked sarcasm. Grats.

The Velfs came in Legion, not in Bfa. And I did say likely and it's true for many, obviously not you, you are special.

Again, I said "you fellas" not SPECIFICALLY YOU.

And no, I'm not telling you want to do. It's advice, take it or leave it.

And where the fuck did I insinuate you wanted befls removed? I said you counted on helfs being added because even if they are a HUGE mistake that Blizzard might regret, they cannot remove them once added. Get it?

And no I'm not too late. Even if Velfs were Helf catering, they were still added in a fashion unties them from the Belf lore and creates their own. I don't think you understand the small difference that separates belfs from helfs.

And you should probably learn how to read because I'm not gonna walk you through my previous posts again.

But one thing that really amuses me is how your brain interpreted me speaking to you directly when I specifically wrote I was speaking to several people posting here. It's not that surprising to be honest, not from you and frankly not from most who post here cause one thing you share is your belief that the word revolves around you.

[Enkrypt]

Yeah sure, everything is part of blood elf story. I guess orcs are just part of human story and forsaken are just part of lich king story.

Wow, that's some critically flawed logic there. Do you make it a habit of just derailing all common sense and logic just to throw a textual tantrum as if you're proving a point and not making a fool of yourself?

When in the context of Elven races, yes, Blood Elves are the new frontier of the High Elves. If you want to get specific, you could say it's all about Trolls, honestly.

But yeah, totally, that's the same exact thing as the relationship between Orcs and Humans. Glad to see the mental gymnastics in this thread haven't changed one iota.

[Deleted]

Ok, you said statement. But you debunked sarcasm. Grats.

I think you should get past the appearance cause it's not about that. Sure they could give Helfs longer ears or slimmer arms, but in the end, it's still belfs with different political ideologies. But hey, if you did get past the appearance you wouldn't be posting here, would you? You'd be playing your Velf in sweet silence.


This was sarcasm, right

The Velfs came in Legion, not in Bfa. And I did say likely and it's true for many, obviously not you, you are special.

Again, I said "you fellas" not SPECIFICALLY YOU.

You had to pre-order BfA to get VEs.

And you included me in your 'analysis', or otherwise you wouldn't write all of that stuff as a reply to me. Hence I am showing on my example that you should not generalise.

And no, I'm not telling you want to do. It's advice, take it or leave it.

Sounded more like a desperate plea. Well, I am 100% sure that no one who read your 'advice' actually gave it any consideration.

And where the fuck did I insinuate you wanted befls removed? I said you counted on helfs being added because even if they are a HUGE mistake that Blizzard might regret, they cannot remove them once added. Get it?

Right, which is why the fact that they can't remove a race is part of our problem, somehow. Don't play dumb now. Or start to write coherent sentences. Pick one.

And no I'm not too late. Even if Velfs were Helf catering, they were still added in a fashion unties them from the Belf lore and creates their own. I don't think you understand the small difference that separates belfs from helfs.

Eh, yes, you are. HEs are in the game since Vanilla.

And you should probably learn how to read because I'm not gonna walk you through my previous posts again.

Unfortunately it's me who ends up walking you through your own posts.

But one thing that really amuses me is how your brain interpreted me speaking to you directly when I specifically wrote I was speaking to several people posting here. It's not that surprising to be honest, not from you and frankly not from most who post here cause one thing you share is your belief that the word revolves around you.

You addressed High Elf fans and spoke on their behalf as if you know who they truly are and what they truly think. I showed you on my example that your analysis is crap. Even though what you said might be true for quite a few people, it does in no way define everyone, hence your take on the situation is completely useless.