Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Friendlyimmolation]

Until there isn't a High Elf with golden eyes... there is no confirmation that HE can get golden eyes. We know all elves are connected to the Sunwell, yet we are currently not informed of WHY EXACTLY some Blood Elves are getting golden eyes. What is the needed context? We do not know? There's a lot left unsaid to presume there is any confirmation.



As someone who likes blood elves on the horde, this scenario simply doesn't applies to me so IDK why you bring that up to me. I want all the elves.



I already play as a Blood Elf on the Horde so again you are making some bold assumptions. I disagree with Ion's decision because I play both factions and see as silly trying to force players to play on one side or the other. I support High Elves because I like the lore they have in the alliance and I find their fantasy compelling.

Your sentiment works only in a game without two factions. It flies directly in the face of how Blizzard treats the separation of factions. It's probably why they came up with asspull void traitor elves because they aren't going to give you high elves when its the same exact thing as a blood elf with blue contacts slapped on, they want the factions to be different and look different.

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A difference that's been in the game since it released? When Thalassian elves finally got their own model, High Elves have always had non-glowy eyes. But sure hand-wave away. You're not who we're trying to convince. Blizzard has budged a little with the most recent word. The game itself has all the evidence needed, and the best part about it? Blizzard continues to keep adding onto it.

By budging you mean Blizzard outright stating they may put the final nail in the coffin by adding the option to make void elves slightly more Helfy?

Mistaking every single thing blizzard says for "high elves are coming" doesn't actually give your consistent pleading weight.

[FlubberPuddy]

By budging you mean Blizzard outright stating they may put the final nail in the coffin by adding the option to make void elves slightly for Helfy?

Where did they outright state it was the only option possible? For someone who's constantly been trying to imply "it's all in your head, face reality" you sure seem to exhibit this behavior yourself.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Where did they outright state it was the only option possible? For someone who's constantly been trying to imply "it's all in your head, face reality" you sure seem to exhibit this behavior yourself.

You think that not only would void elves get the option to look more like a high elf, but that blizzard will also give you a second allied race just for the high elf slot? Do you honestly think that?

Ontop of this did you ever actually believe you were going to get high elves in the first place with how Blizzard treats faction seperation? If you have paid attention at all I assume the answer is no. As long as Blizzard treats faction design the way it does, they aren't giving you high elves, and if you want to justify high elves having a different model, why ask for high elves in the first place?

[Maxilian]

What's with all the greed? Why should we be giving all of these new options to Blood Elves? Brown skin, new hair colors and styles, blue eyes with pupils, ear styles, tattoos, new class options, ect. They already got new eye colors without wasting an allied race spot, but the other parent races have to have separate off shoots in order to get new customizations. You want an Orc with brown skin and tattoos? You have to play Maghar. You want a Draenai with gold eyes and gold tattoos? You have to play Lightforged. What "negative connotations?" The orcs who are the same species, are separated by skin color. One fraction has brown skin, the other has green skin.

Why the hell should Blood Elves get everything? That's so goddamn infuriating.

To be fair, many people disliked the Lightforged thing because they were lighter skinned draneai with gold tattoos and gold eyes, and no real big changes...

The Orcs have a reason to be like that (storywise).

[FlubberPuddy]

You think that not only would void elves get the option to look more like a high elf, but that blizzard will also give you a second allied race just for the high elf slot? Do you honestly think that?

I think the fact that Afrasiabi emphasized, "don't give up hope!" was towards the fans asking for High Elves regardless of the contextual answer to the contextual question asked. Let me ask you this: How many "We want High Elf skins on Void Elves" threads have you seen compared to the "We want High Elves on Alliance playable" threads?

That should give you your answer to who Afrasiabi was referencing in that moment.

Ontop of this did you ever actually believe you were going to get high elves in the first place with how Blizzard treats faction seperation? If you have paid attention at all I assume the answer is no. As long as Blizzard treats faction design the way it does, they aren't giving you high elves, and if you want to justify high elves having a different model, why ask for high elves in the first place?

This again is implying without outright stating it that Ion's word on High Elves is the most recent comment. It isn't, and you and some others can't get past that because it destroys a lot of the anti-arguments.

Again, the most recent word on the subject is that it's possible for High Elf fantasy to exist in a playable form on Alliance. In reference to VE customization sure, but again they did not outright state nor imply it is the only option possible going forward.

I'm still waiting for your evidence of this since you sure like to go by things that are outright stated (like your earlier reference of stating all Thalassians are affected by the Sunwell - to which degree we do not know btw- ) and now are trying to work with implications.

You are flip flopping around mister, it's very easy to see. Whereas my examples have stayed consistent.

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To be fair, many people disliked the Lightforged thing because they were lighter skinned draneai with gold tattoos and gold eyes, and no real big changes...

The Orcs have a reason to be like that (storywise).

Even if the Orcs have a reason to be like that. Blizzard still weren't happy with "just brown skin orcs" which is why they made Mag'har an amalgamation of all the clans with various features and more breadth of customization that still kept the fantasy of being an uncorrupt Orc.

The sad thing is in comparison to Void Elves who have no fantasy of being an uncorrupt Elf that has been loyal to the Alliance (this is what High Elves are reduced down to their most basic differentiation from Blood Elves). So it sucks in the comparison that way to many High Elf fans.

[Evilfish]

Who is shaming you dear lord, are you now resorting to dramatics? You are the one that keeps missing the point and gets butthut when told that your opinion of "High Elves aren't going to be a thing" is not a discussion, just a statement.

You keep telling people to get over ourselves because you can't accept we disagree with Ion? That we would like High Elves to be playable? What is to get over when this is all about a disagreement, of something we would hope changes?

Does it hurt you so bad that we can't just agree with you and all say "High Elves are not going to happen"?

If I were to resort to dramatics, I'd do it more carefully since I would have tough competition here all things considered.

And while your burning desire for helfs is a statement, the counter-statement has a couple of facts to it and I guess that's what really gets to you, which is why you always try to discredit those who bring it up by claiming their statements are not valid because it does not serve your discussion. So tell me, hypocrite, why are yours any more valid than theirs? Because you assume it does not concern them? It does as much as it concerns you.

You think your justification is in your burning desire for Helfs and anything that does not conform with that is not acceptable, whether it's trolling, strawmanning or whatever you come up with, including not being enreaching to YOUR discussion which is the biggest load of crap across these forums. People don't need to agree or pamper your helfs to participate in this discussion. Disagreeing with you IS AN OPTION as much as you hate hearing it.

As long as you ask for Helfs there are going to be those that are going to disagree. That is a fact. Get over yourself and accept that as part of this thread or keep acting all confused and post more hypocrisy.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Your sentiment works only in a game without two factions. It flies directly in the face of how Blizzard treats the separation of factions. It's probably why they came up with asspull void traitor elves because they aren't going to give you high elves when its the same exact thing as a blood elf with blue contacts slapped on, they want the factions to be different and look different.

And I am saying that we can have a two faction conflict based on politics instead of an arbitrary need to separate said faction by races. I am aware that the current development team doesn't see it like that, and what I am hoping is that changes, and with that the mentality that adding a race such as High Elves is "taking something way from the Horde"

At the end of the day my issue is that, the arbitrary race separation in a game about faction war. The thing is that I believe the game would be far more interesting if more races themselves were separated by the faction conflict. We keep getting groups that cross the faction line, but it is due to the game's design choices we can't have said groups, or more potential groups, as playable.

Which makes us end up with as asspull like Void Elves to force a differentiation -and worse, one that prioritized aesthetic over the already distinct elven political group on the alliance that could ALSO had been made Void Elves- that came out of nowhere, and still is debatable when will pay off *shrug*

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If I were to resort to dramatics, I'd do it more carefully since I would have tough competition here all things considered.

And while your burning desire for helfs is a statement, the counter-statement has a couple of facts to it and I guess that's what really gets to you, which is why you always try to discredit those who bring it up by claiming their statements are not valid because it does not serve your discussion. So tell me, hypocrite, why are yours any more valid than theirs? Because you assume it does not concern them? It does as much as it concerns you.

You think your justification is in your burning desire for Helfs and anything that does not conform with that is not acceptable, whether it's trolling, strawmanning or whatever you come up with, including not being enreaching to YOUR discussion which is the biggest load of crap across these forums. People don't need to agree or pamper your helfs to participate in this discussion. Disagreeing with you IS AN OPTION as much as you hate hearing it.

As long as you ask for Helfs there are going to be those that are going to disagree. That is a fact. Get over yourself and accept that as part of this thread or keep acting all confused and post more hypocrisy.

The main problem with everything you say is that you are unable to understand that while I want High Elves, I fully accept they could not happen, hence, whether they will or not happen is simply not what I am here to discuss. Do you get that?

Again, you are so free to disagree in whether HE will happen, but what I am trying to get across to you, is that such an statement IS NOT A DISCUSSION. I really don't understand what more else I can say to you for you to get that? I really don't understand what answer do you possible think you are going to get to "High Elves are not going to happen" Cause again, that is not an opinion, just an statement, and the fact that currently the people that want High Elves want to change.

You hyperbolize I'm trying to discredit you, and all I am saying that your "High Elves are not going to happen" spiel is simply not a discussion. You are not saying "this is why I think HE shouldn't happen" then we would be having a discussion, you are simply stating their impossibility as a statement, and again, how can anyone have a discussion about that.

As I have said many a time, bring up an actual point for discussion, but come on, if all you have is saying that High Elves are not going to happen, I ask you, what kind of response you would deem appropriate for that?

[FlubberPuddy]

At the end of the day my issue is that, the arbitrary race separation in a game about faction war. The thing is that I believe the game would be far more interesting if more races themselves were separated by the faction conflict. We keep getting groups that cross the faction line, but it is due to the game's design choices we can't have said groups, or more potential groups, as playable.

We thankfully are seeing Blizzard move more into this territory. With the inner faction turmoil going on in the Horde, Blizzard also stating that if they allow that difference of choice to be implemented they want it to be a pay off for players (implying against those players who say "nothing will matter in the end anyway, things will stay the same").

We already know all members of a race are not a hivemind, that is neither compelling, complex, nor interesting. Some players here are trying to act as if it is so, when the narrative in BFA is clearly showing us it's not.

I think the next step forward for Blizzard will be ushering in more compelling and complex narratives within the factions to actually achieve the 'morally grey' they keep getting memed on about.

But from what I've seen with Blizzard is that they are very slow in coming to these types of changes.

[Evilfish]

And I am saying that we can have a two faction conflict based on politics instead of an arbitrary need to separate said faction by races. I am aware that the current development team doesn't see it like that, and what I am hoping is that changes, and with that the mentality that adding a race such as High Elves is "taking something way from the Horde"

At the end of the day my issue is that, the arbitrary race separation in a game about faction war. The thing is that I believe the game would be far more interesting if more races themselves were separated by the faction conflict. We keep getting groups that cross the faction line, but it is due to the game's design choices we can't have said groups, or more potential groups, as playable.

Which makes us end up with as asspull like Void Elves to force a differentiation -and worse, one that prioritized aesthetic over the already distinct elven political group on the alliance that could ALSO had been made Void Elves- that came out of nowhere, and still is debatable when will pay off *shrug*

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The main problem with everything you say is that you are unable to understand that while I want High Elves, I fully accept they could not happen, hence, whether they will or not happen is simply not what I am here to discuss. Do you get that?

Again, you are so free to disagree in whether HE will happen, but what I am trying to get across to you, is that such an statement IS NOT A DISCUSSION. I really don't understand what more else I can say to you for you to get that? I really don't understand what answer do you possible think you are going to get to "High Elves are not going to happen" Cause again, that is not an opinion, just an statement, and the fact that currently the people that want High Elves want to change.

You hyperbolize I'm trying to discredit you, and all I am saying that your "High Elves are not going to happen" spiel is simply not a discussion. You are not saying "this is why I think HE shouldn't happen" then we would be having a discussion, you are simply stating their impossibility as a statement, and again, how can anyone have a discussion about that.

As I have said many a time, bring up an actual point for discussion, but come on, if all you have is saying that High Elves are not going to happen, I ask you, what kind of response you would deem appropriate for that?

Look, the addition of Helfs is regarded as a problem by some. Do you understand that? That is no more, or less important to your burning helf desire. Whether you like to discuss it or not, is not the issue. Choosing to target those who want to point that out and discredit them based on your biased feelings is the issue. Do you understand that? You not wanting to discuss something does not mean your opponent "just wants to be right". If you get that, consider this little distraction closed.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

We thankfully are seeing Blizzard move more into this territory. With the inner faction turmoil going on in the Horde, Blizzard also stating that if they allow that difference of choice to be implemented they want it to be a pay off for players (implying against those players who say "nothing will matter in the end anyway, things will stay the same").

We already know all members of a race are not a hivemind, that is neither compelling, complex, nor interesting. Some players here are trying to act as if it is so, when the narrative in BFA is clearly showing us it's not.

I think the next step forward for Blizzard will be ushering in more compelling and complex narratives within the factions to actually achieve the 'morally grey' they keep getting memed on about.

But from what I've seen with Blizzard is that they are very slow in coming to these types of changes.

That's the issue, the story keeps swerving into far more nuanced explorations of loyalty and factions and we are still stuck with a pedestrian system of "this race goes on this side"

[RangerDaz]

which is incorrect, the sunwell touches all Thasslassian elves unless they were cut off, which requires a ritual by magisters.

I doubt the average high elf demands enough attention from Rommath to go "Fuck this idiot, I'm cutting them off"

I only see golden eyes on Silvermoon elves and no one else. If the Sunwell affected all elves, Alleria, Vereesa, the silver covenant and the void elves would start to be holy infused as well, and the void corruption on the void elves would start to be cleansed. And this isnt happening which means that only blood elves are being holy infused

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Look, the addition of Helfs is regarded as a problem by some. Do you understand that? That is no more, or less important to your burning helf desire. Whether you like to discuss it or not, is not the issue. Choosing to target those who want to point that out and discredit them based on your biased feelings is the issue. Do you understand that? You not wanting to discuss something does not mean your opponent "just wants to be right". If you get that, consider this little distraction closed.

But you were not arguing any of those points, you just kept stating "High Elves are not going to happen" as your only point. I never claimed that me wanting HE's is more important than other's not wanting me, and that you keep framing it as such just shows how little you actually comprehend about what I am saying, and repeated multiple times, this isn't about being right or wrong, but a matter of opinion, and obviously, opinions differ.

And again, for me to want to discredit your opinion, you should have one on the first place, cause "High Elves aren't going to happen" is not an opinion.

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I only see golden eyes on Silvermoon elves and no one else. If the Sunwell affected all elves, Alleria, Vereesa, the silver covenant and the void elves would start to be holy infused as well, and the void corruption on the void elves would start to be cleansed. And this isnt happening which means that only blood elves are being holy infused

I mean one could safely assume that the VE got disconnected from the Sunwell, so lets not count them, but for the rest. Yeah.

[RangerDaz]

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I mean one could safely assume that the VE got disconnected from the Sunwell, so lets not count them, but for the rest. Yeah.

I dont think there is a switch to be connected to the sunwell. The answer is much more simple: Blood Elves aka the Sindorei use the Sunwell's energies, while the remaining Quelthalas elves dont.

[FlubberPuddy]

That's the issue, the story keeps swerving into far more nuanced explorations of loyalty and factions and we are still stuck with a pedestrian system of "this race goes on this side"

Well Afrasiabi was asked if we could see a third faction someday and he said he'd prefer it went into the other direction of one faction instead of splitting up friends/family even more. He said the main idea is that Azeroth is everyone's home and battles should be fought for that purpose, to protect it together.

https://blizzardwatch.com/2018/11/04...hree-factions/

"Three factions…or one?

Since Afrasiabi brought up the Saurfang vs. Sylvanas option, Mitch pressed him about the idea of splitting the Horde into separate factions for each camp. While the idea would be 'thematically cool and appropriate for this scenario,' Afrasiabi explained that creating a third faction would really mean splitting up friendships and guilds since factions cannot adventure together. His preference would be the other way: that the Alliance and Horde could group together 'one of these days.'

'That is the bigger meta lesson of Azeroth,' he concluded, 'that these battles that we fought, even when we are separated, are for the same damn purpose. For our home.'"

So it's cool to know that that would be the more preferable option.

[Fyersing]

So it's cool to know that that would be the more preferable option.

This would also directly allow for playable High Elves, via their narrative suggesting they reconcile with Quel'thalas. Thus making Blood Elves, Void Elves, and High Elves a related cluster of narratives (instead of red versus blue).

[Evilfish]

But you were not arguing any of those points, you just kept stating "High Elves are not going to happen" as your only point. I never claimed that me wanting HE's is more important than other's not wanting me, and that you keep framing it as such just shows how little you actually comprehend about what I am saying, and repeated multiple times, this isn't about being right or wrong, but a matter of opinion, and obviously, opinions differ.

And again, for me to want to discredit your opinion, you should have one on the first place, cause "High Elves aren't going to happen" is not an opinion.

I clearly stated to you a while ago, in response to you that I did not know if the Helfs are happening or not happening, I told you specifically that my guess would be they are not, that is an OPINION. During this discussion nonetheless. So how the fuck would I be stating an opposite of what I just stated? Cut the mental gymnastics.

You keep insisting I'm arguing for something I am not and you keep going back to that, so here's more hypocrisy from a guy who accused me of strawmanning as a preemptive measure a few pages back... during the same discussion.

Even the person whose post you replied to, the same post that got me to address you, was saying that high elves are currently not plausible given the state of things, the same person you proceeded to accuse of just wanting to be right, the same person who pointed out that you dismissed arguments, statements or opinions that didn't align with your agenda and he was RIGHT.

I am done with your crap. Act shocked and pretend you don't understand as much as you want. At this point you are not fooling anyone.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I only see golden eyes on Silvermoon elves and no one else. If the Sunwell affected all elves, Alleria, Vereesa, the silver covenant and the void elves would start to be holy infused as well, and the void corruption on the void elves would start to be cleansed. And this isnt happening which means that only blood elves are being holy infused

I mean nothing else to say here other than lore outright states you're wrong

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I dont think there is a switch to be connected to the sunwell. The answer is much more simple: Blood Elves aka the Sindorei use the Sunwell's energies, while the remaining Quelthalas elves dont.

Again, not how the Sunwell works. The Magisters of Silvermoon would have to forcibly remove their connection, and because we don't see high elves rolling around on the floor shrieking, that hasn't happened.

[RangerDaz]

I mean nothing else to say here other than lore outright states you're wrong

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Again, not how the Sunwell works. The Magisters of Silvermoon would have to forcibly remove their connection, and because we don't see high elves rolling around on the floor shrieking, that hasn't happened.

You say im wrong. I say you are wrong. It wont take us far with these kind of arguments.

Chronicles 3 doesnt speak about the sunwell reaching to all quelthalas elves the way you describe.

[Friendlyimmolation]

You say im wrong. I say you are wrong. It wont take us far with these kind of arguments.

Chronicles 3 dont speak about the sunwell reaching to all quelthalas elves.

The Sunwell's power has no physical limits or boundaries. An elf bound to its energies would be so no matter how far away they went from it.[7] Its energies are available to be drawn upon from anywhere in the cosmos[22] and even alternate realities as evidenced by the Sunsworn forces on the alternate Draenor.
a b c d e Blood of the Highborne
Christopher Davis on Twitter (2014-02-04)
BlizzCon 2016: @16m55s Q&A, RE: The Sunwell/Blood Elf paladins

You're wrong, lore outright says you're wrong. There is nothing else to discuss here, no "he said she said"

[RangerDaz]

The Sunwell's power has no physical limits or boundaries. An elf bound to its energies would be so no matter how far away they went from it.[7] Its energies are available to be drawn upon from anywhere in the cosmos[22] and even alternate realities as evidenced by the Sunsworn forces on the alternate Draenor.
a b c d e Blood of the Highborne
Christopher Davis on Twitter (2014-02-04)

That was before chronicles 3, which retconned entire warcraft 3 and wow. At that time there were no Void elves as well. And the silver covenant elves dont have golden eyes as well. The golden eyes also came after the lore you quoted. Blizzard people change their minds all the time.