Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[In Ogres We Trust]

The problem is how to do it without making a contrived storyline.

Unless there's something that forces the high elves into folding with the void elves, I don't see them taking such a dangerous path.

What? You adjust the current lore to fit my suggestion:

a) The Void Elves would have always been her forces from the expedition to Draenor (in addition to the Silver Covenant). In other words, you remove the current lore.
b) Hearing of her return, her former Rangers flocked to see her.
c) Realizing that Sylvanas is beyond redemption (in addition to the need for more troops for the Alliance), Alleria agrees to reform her elite cadre of Rangers to aid the Alliance.
d) As a result, she trains her colleagues to be the backbone of her new company, and they, in turn, train the rest of the High Elves, etc.

Problem solved... no Blood Elves, Umbric, or a shitty story and model.

[Xath]

Are not coming. They have made that perfectly clear across fifteen years of game operation.

The biggest hint was that instead of giving the Alliance High Elves they wen't entirely out of their way not too, they invented a variant nobody had ever heard of rather than do so.

It is likelier that they will allow Horde and Alliance players to group in PVE content, and so allow Blood Elf players to play with Humans and Dwarves etc., rather than give Alliance High Elves at this point. Many players are openly hypothesising this will be the outcome of this expansion if the faction war is brought to a permanent end and such an outcome will render Alliance High Elves as an option completely redundant instead of the 99.9% redundant they are now following the addition of Void Elves, and the 99% redundant they became when Blood Elves were added as a Horde race.

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Confirmed not to be happening.

Ion confirmed to someone at Blizzcon that Alliance High Elves will not happen this expansion cycle but the usual 'anything is possible' coda. This individual was someone from the pro High Elf discord, at least according to the Allied Race discord. This expansion is going to be live for the next year and a half.

We were also told in the June 2018 Q and A that Allied race additions are going to get much rarer after BFA.

Jeremy Feasel in the T and E interview was excited about new allied races in BFA, but grew a lot more sceptical when questioned about post BFA allied races, only saying the system is there if needed.

Alex Afrisiabi nodded in agreement when the Lost Codex guys said they thought Void Elves filled the High Elf niche within the Alliance, which segued into their question about High Elf LIKE (not High Elf exact) Void Elf customization, which he rapidly repurposed into a statement on behaviour on the forums so read into that what you will.

From everything here, I'm pretty certain Alliance High Elves as a distinct Alliance option isn't happening within two years. The intent isn't there at all. As was confirmed last April.

We'll see how long that tune lasts. Believe it or not along with blood elf druids one of the things that could bring casual players back to the game is a long asked for race. Especially if they added High Elves alongside Ogres.

[FlubberPuddy]

In opposition to the idea Void Elves were a mistake are two factors. Firstly the popularity of the Void Elves relative to the other Allied races puts the lie to the idea they are a failure. How can they be a failure when they are the most popular? They are more popular than some of the core races on the Alliance side.
Secondly, Void Elves do not cross the red lines Blizzard established. I am not a fan of Void Elves, but I acknowledge that they are aesthetically, thematically and culturally distinct enough from Blood/High Elves to not damage faction diversity. So as an Allied race they are a success. As a variant, they are a success. Where they fail is in not being the Alliance High Elves the pro High Elf community has held out for. Given that was an impossible standard for them to meet, it should be discounted.

Super simple. Because people are shallow and like pretty things, and the Thalassian model is unsurprisingly the most lauded as a great looking model. Blizzard could instead have green-tinted Shrub Elves using the Thalassian model and they'd be just as popular.

Look at the people calling for San'layn elves, what model are they hoping is utilized for the base? That's right the Thalassian one, because to fans to love playing elves it's very easy to see that's a well-done model, if not Blizzard's best elf model in-game.

The Lost Codex interviewers were the ones who brought up the topic of High Elf like customization for Void Elves, unbidden, with no prompting from the developers. They didn't even ask if it was going to happen, they merely asked if it was possible. And the developer asked said 'yes it's possible' but then pivoted to a discussion on forum behaviour.

Same developer also said, "don't give up hope!" after saying "it's possible" and before pivoting to forum behavior. But yes, leave it out as if that's not pertinent when it actually is, since it shows an encouragement to continue to the request rather than a fortright shut down to the request.

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We'll see how long that tune lasts. Believe it or not along with blood elf druids one of the things that could bring casual players back to the game is a long asked for race. Especially if they added High Elves alongside Ogres.

People should just caution against expecting them anytime soon (if ever), and definitely not in BFA. There's still 2 more Allied Races to be added to Alliance side and the "elf slot" has already been used up for this round. I don't imagine even in the next expansion it happening, since it will probably focus more on a new class or something related to classes.

My hope is somewhere down the line, in a time where Wildhammer who have been teased of being added potentially can also be the time where High Elves become playable to the Alliance. Having started playing D&D, I think a lot of people underscore the freedom that is allowed to play a character how you want (within a reasonable ruleset), but with free reign over its race, class, faction, personality etc.

Actually the fact that we have the Allied Races feature today is because of the long-lauded calls for more character customization.

[Obelisk Kai]

We'll see how long that tune lasts. Believe it or not along with blood elf druids one of the things that could bring casual players back to the game is a long asked for race. Especially if they added High Elves alongside Ogres.

Since the first negative response to playable High Elves was given in September 2005, Blizzard have been holding that tune for thirteen and a half years minimum. Longer if we count the actual development of classic itself. I am interested to see if anything is covered in the Warcraft Development Diary by John Staats on this particular topic but I am waiting for the work to become widely available before I get a copy.

The problem with 'High Elves will bring players back to the game' is of course the presumption that they actually would. If you REALLY want playable High Elves on the Alliance, then of course it becomes the solution to all the game's woes despite the fact there is no evidence for that beyond the desire of the pro High Elf community. A community I hasten to add, that isn't very large but is very vocal.

I reference the number of people who have signed the High Elf petition and the number on the High Elf discord, those for whom this is THE issue, seems to number in the hundreds. By comparison, the classic community had a petition of a quarter of a million at one point. I bring this up because 'they caved for classic, they will cave for us' seems to be something of an article of faith for some people.

Why? What evidence is there they will do so? Yes, they changed their mind on classic, but the classic issue was one that vastly more people were interested in achieving and came on the back of a movement within the MMO market to offer older server experiences. More importantly, Classic had no negative drawbacks for the live game that the Alliance High Elf request does have and which Blizzard spelled out last year.

And yes, I know the pro High Elf community has discounted all these negatives. Funnily enough, deciding amongst yourselves that the barriers and arguments in front of your goal don't matter doesn't make the issue go away. Preaching to the choir achieves nothing.

This is the echo chamber you are in. You have no evidence that they will drive an upward trend in WoW subs beyond your own desire for them. I could claim that giving Mages a one shot one kill ability would drive subs upwards as well, and yet the fact I main a Mage might just slightly be warping my perception of such a request (as well as blinding me to some serious downsides).

No, Warcraft subs will do fine this year. There will be an upswing in the summer with the launch of 8.2 and classic. Probably a decline before the end of the year but enough should stay, and then be excited by the announcement of a new expansion at blizzcon and the release of 8.3, that this year will be a relative success.

And nary an Alliance High Elf will be needed to achieve that.

[DeicideUH]

What? You adjust the current lore to fit my suggestion:

a) The Void Elves would have always been her forces from the expedition to Draenor (in addition to the Silver Covenant). In other words, you remove the current lore.
b) Hearing of her return, her former Rangers flocked to see her.
c) Realizing that Sylvanas is beyond redemption (in addition to the need for more troops for the Alliance), Alleria agrees to reform her company of Rangers to aid the Alliance.
d) As a result, she trains her colleagues to be the backbone of her new company, and they, in turn, train the rest of the High Elves, etc.

Problem solved... no Blood Elves, Umbric, or a shitty story and model.

Well, it's too late to change the past. I also made a very similar suggestion when void elves were about to be released. Essentially, it would be the same recruitment scenario, but enhanced:

- When you arrive at Ghostlands with Alleria to search for Umbric, the Silver Covenant has secured Windrunner village. Beyond Vereesa and her troops, there's a group named "Allerian Elite", comprised of: Auric Sunchaser, Taela Everstride, Theloria Shadecloak and other high elves from Allerian Stronghold, who flocked to their former captain once she returned.
- The search through Ghostlands goes almost like before. Maybe an encounter with some enemy blood elves to show how the relationship between high and blood elves is sour.
- When Alleria enter Telogrus, Vereesa offers a squad of Covenant rangers to go with her sister. Summoner Nolric of the Silver Covenant is also interested. The Allerian Elite goes with Alleria as well. (Vereesa herself does not go).
- When you meet Umbric and Durzaam attacks, Umbric would not be immediately captured. The scenario would show his passion in trying to save his followers. As the scenario goes, every elf, including the high elves that went to Telogrus, are captured and transformed.
- By the end of the scenario, you have a mix of transformed elves, both high and blood. You also end up with several void elf NPCs ready to be used to flesh out the void elves and give them different outlooks on the Void: Umbric, Auric, Theloria, Taela and Nolric. Also, the Silver Covenant squad that went with Alleria is transformed as well.

This alone would have made the void elves a hundred times better, and open more possibilities for them. They'd also have a stronger link to the Silver Covenant and the high elves, having several former high elf heroes among them.

But we can't go back and change the past. As the void elves are right now, I don't see any incentive for high elves to join them in large numbers. The only way it could be done is if it's against their will.

[Varx]

When compared to biological similarities and differences in allegiances/philosophies, blood/high elves are just like houjin/tushui Pandaren.

As long as the Alliance has high elves the Thalasian Elves as a whole are a "neutral" race. By neutral i mean from a mechanical perspective. Blizzard just needs to reflect this in a gameplay manner by giving them the Panda treatment a d replacing blood elves with another race like ogres or vrykul.

AR is not a solution for reasons that have been beaten down.

Tl/dr

Thalasian elves are just like pandas so reflect it for players by making them neutral and giving the Horde a brand new race to compensate.

[Obelisk Kai]

When compared to biological similarities and differences in allegiances/philosophies, blood/high elves are just like houjin/tushui Pandaren.

As long as the Alliance has high elves the Thalasian Elves as a whole are a "neutral" race. By neutral i mean from a mechanical perspective. Blizzard just needs to reflect this in a gameplay manner by giving them the Panda treatment a d replacing blood elves with another race like ogres or vrykul.

AR is not a solution for reasons that have been beaten down.

Tl/dr

Thalasian elves are just like pandas so reflect it for players by making them neutral and giving the Horde a brand new race to compensate.

You've been in this thread long enough to know what the response is to using Pandaren as a comparison.

[Varx]

You've been in this thread long enough to know what the response is to using Pandaren as a comparison.

Haha you're right I have but if everyone will continue to beat down their ponies to ground meat I might as well too.

I am super against high elves being their own race/AR. But as long as they exist in the lore that technically makes them just like pandas minus the fact you cant play the Alliance ones.

So either high elfers can just live with the fact that either go red or go home, or pray that Blizzard listens to the genius that is I.

Either way idc as long as they're not their own race.

Hopefully all remaining high elves will die out or be absorbed into silvermoon or the velves.

[Strippling]

Vereesa is still there, and she's no doubt important to some degree, so eventually, something has to give? I can't imagine what the sixth Allied Race will be for Alliance yet.

The only importance Vareesa has at this stage is that she is Sylvanus' sister. Any story for her at this point completely revolves around her undead sister.

Once Sylvanus' story is over, Vareesa's will be over too.

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I'll take added customizations, like they once discussed. I think, however, that they want players to embrace the existing options as much as possible, first, however, before adding more High Elf-like hairstyles, etc to the mix. I have quite a few friends who are newer to the game, and they adore the Void Elves, and know very little of the history of the lore of Warcraft, so maybe it won't hurt to incorporate the High Elf lore into the Void Elves, down the road.

Personally I don't think added 'high elf' like customization would be appropriate for the void elfs. Firstly, it'll be treading on blood elf aethestics (given that void elfs are blood elf model with blue/purple skin). Secondly, void elfs are 'voidy' for a reason... taking that away takes away from what void elfs are, all for the sake of the small group of fanatical high elf fans. Thirdly, high elf fans will then start saying things like "make void elf paladins" to fulfill their high elf needs (even though high elfs shouldn't be paladins)

[In Ogres We Trust]

Well, it's too late to change the past. I also made a very similar suggestion when void elves were about to be released. Essentially, it would be the same recruitment scenario, but enhanced:

- When you arrive at Ghostlands with Alleria to search for Umbric, the Silver Covenant has secured Windrunner village. Beyond Vereesa and her troops, there's a group named "Allerian Elite", comprised of: Auric Sunchaser, Taela Everstride, Theloria Shadecloak and other high elves from Allerian Stronghold, who flocked to their former captain once she returned.
- The search through Ghostlands goes almost like before. Maybe an encounter with some enemy blood elves to show how the relationship between high and blood elves is sour.
- When Alleria enter Telogrus, Vereesa offers a squad of Covenant rangers to go with her sister. Summoner Nolric of the Silver Covenant is also interested. The Allerian Elite goes with Alleria as well. (Vereesa herself does not go).
- When you meet Umbric and Durzaam attacks, Umbric would not be immediately captured. The scenario would show his passion in trying to save his followers. As the scenario goes, every elf, including the high elves that went to Telogrus, are captured and transformed.
- By the end of the scenario, you have a mix of transformed elves, both high and blood. You also end up with several void elf NPCs ready to be used to flesh out the void elves and give them different outlooks on the Void: Umbric, Auric, Theloria, Taela and Nolric. Also, the Silver Covenant squad that went with Alleria is transformed as well.

This alone would have made the void elves a hundred times better, and open more possibilities for them. They'd also have a stronger link to the Silver Covenant and the high elves, having several former high elf heroes among them.

But we can't go back and change the past. As the void elves are right now, I don't see any incentive for high elves to join them in large numbers. The only way it could be done is if it's against their will.

It's a fictional game, i.e. they can change the game and lore at any point. For example, they could update the model (in addition to its customization options) in the next expansion and completely redo the intro. quest for the race.

[Mace]

Because the High Elven community didn't ask for Void Elves; they asked for High Elves, and Blizzard proceeded to muff the easiest sale in the history of the entire game.

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To be fair, the Nightborne should have been neutral from the start. (Why would they join a faction?)

OR Join both factions. Being night elves they would have lean towards joining their kin ofc, i mean the night eles cure their addiction, teh city is really the city of both groups , and they have people who saved them twice before. While the blood elves did help ofc, the natural choice would be either night elves or both factions, the insane choice was all horde. ANd it was un-necessary.

[DeicideUH]

It's a fictional game, i.e. they can change the game and lore at any point. For example, they could update the model (in addition to its customization options) in the next expansion and completely redo the intro. quest for the race.

Changing the model is alright. But going back and remaking the story is a no-no. It would make very confusing, as people would remember the original story and not know it was changed. They need to keep the story moving forward.

[Obelisk Kai]

I don't post here but here is a random idea that just came to me.

What if Rommath finds a way to sever elves outside Quel'thalas from the Sunwell that requires them to physically go back to restore that link. The Blood Elves could do it so as to deal with the void elf threat (that is a very credible threat to their entire way of life). Then Theron offers any high elves a choice. Join us (and the Horde) or live without the Sunwell. In desperation the remaining High Elves turn to Alleria and the Void Elves. At the end of the scenario, Void Elves can a High Elf customization option. Could be part of a Quel'thalas revamp and/or Warfront; heck it actually makes some sense for the Alliance to attack Quel'danas.

The problem with this is that the physical changes within Void Elves are an unavoidable consequence of becoming a Void Elf. You can't be a Void Elf without being bombarded with void energy, and that exacts a price. Alleria achieved her unique powers because of how she became a Void Elf, consuming a dark naaru. Anyone else who wishes to become a Void Elf has to be brute forced into it, via being bombarded with void energy.

Remember, the Void Elf aesthetic was deliberately chosen to contrast with the Blood/High Elf one. If they had wanted to give the Alliance a High Elf aesthetic, they'd have just given the Allianc High Elves. Undermining that aesthetic undermines the Void Elves as a distinctive group. Particularly as, Human nature being what is, most Void Elf players gravitate towards the High Elf customization option.

As for your lore rationale, Void Elves are almost certainly already cut off from the Sunwell (but their addiction is now sated by their connection to the void) because the light based sunwell would cause issues with their void based physiology. Cutting off Alliance High Elves would do nothing about the Void thread, but would be a way of dealing with the traitors.

[DeicideUH]

I don't post here but here is a random idea that just came to me.

What if Rommath finds a way to sever elves outside Quel'thalas from the Sunwell that requires them to physically go back to restore that link. The Blood Elves could do it so as to deal with the void elf threat (that is a very credible threat to their entire way of life). Then Theron offers any high elves a choice. Join us (and the Horde) or live without the Sunwell. In desperation the remaining High Elves turn to Alleria and the Void Elves. At the end of the scenario, Void Elves can a High Elf customization option. Could be part of a Quel'thalas revamp and/or Warfront; heck it actually makes some sense for the Alliance to attack Quel'danas.

The high elves once refused to use darker magics to sate their addiction and learned to cope with it. They've been living away from Quel'thalas for over a decade now, and wouldn't feel the loss of the Sunwell as heavily as before (elves that lived away from Silvermoon, like the Farstriders, were already less affected the first time). It makes no sense that they'd now accept to all go void and potentially doom themselves as a race. The void is a dangerous power that can make you mad, and we don't even know if void elves can reproduce or how healthy their children could be.

Sure, Blizzard can throw a story like that, but it's a very forced one.

[delus]

I am not a fan of Void Elves, but I acknowledge that they are aesthetically, thematically and culturally distinct enough from Blood/High Elves to not damage faction diversity. So as an Allied race they are a success. As a variant, they are a success. Where they fail is in not being the Alliance High Elves the pro High Elf community has held out for. Given that was an impossible standard for them to meet, it should be discounted.

They are literally just purple blood elves that use void magic.

[Aldo Hawk]

They are literally just purple blood elves that use void magic.

Don't say it too loud!

[Obelisk Kai]

They are literally just purple blood elves that use void magic.

Yet Blood Elves are High Elves, so if they are purple Blood Elves they are also purple High Elves, and the Alliance has their High Elves except they happen to be purple.

Basically, people cannot argue that Void Elves = Blood Elves but don't equal High Elves because it is confirmed that Blood Elves = High Elves.

Now, I don't believe that Void Elves = High Elves. But that is because I don't believe Void Elves = Blood Elves. That is to diminish the transformation they have been through that has left them a race a part. Void Elves ARE their own thing now.

[FlubberPuddy]

Yet Blood Elves are High Elves, so if they are purple Blood Elves they are also purple High Elves, and the Alliance has their High Elves except they happen to be purple.

Basically, people cannot argue that Void Elves = Blood Elves but don't equal High Elves because it is confirmed that Blood Elves = High Elves.

Now, I don't believe that Void Elves = High Elves. But that is because I don't believe Void Elves = Blood Elves. That is to diminish the transformation they have been through that has left them a race a part. Void Elves ARE their own thing now.

It's meant to convey the sameness as when there are those who say "High Elves are just blue eyed Blood Elves". Nothing more, nothing less. If someone believes the aforementioned phrase then it should be easy to see where "Void Elves are just purple Blood Elves" is coming from as well.

[elbleuet]

Void elves are just Alliance blood elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

Yet Blood Elves are High Elves, so if they are purple Blood Elves they are also purple High Elves, and the Alliance has their High Elves except they happen to be purple.

Basically, people cannot argue that Void Elves = Blood Elves but don't equal High Elves because it is confirmed that Blood Elves = High Elves.

Now, I don't believe that Void Elves = High Elves. But that is because I don't believe Void Elves = Blood Elves. That is to diminish the transformation they have been through that has left them a race a part. Void Elves ARE their own thing now.

Void elves.

Are just Blood elves.

Transformed by the void.

And working for the other faction.