Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Strippling]

SNIP

Nightborne are a completely separate race to night elves, they've evolved over the course of 10,000 years to become a unique race. High elves on the other hand have not experienced this level of evolution as they've literally only been separated by their kin for 10-15 years and still draw energy from the same font of power (sunwell). Nightborne drew from a different source of power to the night elves for 10,000 years and subsequently became a unique elven race.

The nightborne (also spelled the Nightborne)[2] or shal'dorei in the native tongue[3][4] are a powerful and mystical race of elves who live in Suramar. Since the city was first separated from the rest of the world over 10,000 years ago, they are no longer true night elves and have evolved by the Nightwell into a unique elven species.

Compare that to high elves:
However, a few high elves did not rename themselves blood elves. High elves and blood elves are physiologically the same race, and the difference between high and blood elves is only political

So your counter-argument falls flat on its face. Void elves on the other hand have undergone a form of transformation and have become something different to their high/blood elven kin. Hence why they were made as the AR and not high elves, who as stated above, are the exact same as blood elves... they are the same race. We have senior developers confirming this on several occasions, and no amount of head canon or personal bias can change this FACT.

You want a high elf? The Horde is waiting for you, at no extra cost to your subscription. You have the exact same opportunity as me or any other player to create a high elven character, and have had so since TBC.

[Alxblaw]

Oh again this shit, fuck up the Elf

[FlubberPuddy]

SNIP

You show a lack of understanding of my argument using the Nightborne. They are what the Night Elf civilization used to be. Obelisk's argument is "that if you want to play our race you actually have to play our race" yet Horde players don't have to do this. They get to play their own version of a Night Elf.

And if you think Nightborne are not Night Elves then it's just apparent obtuseness. Why do people refer to them and Void Elves as a "tit for tat" or "you got our elf and we got yours"? It's because it's very obvious Nightborne are Night Elves. So in that same vein of Obelisk's argument, why aren't Horde having to make the choice of "if you want to play our race you actually have to play our race"? Nightborne are the "back door option" for Horde Night Elves.

I have to question anyone's sincerity in thinking they're not because it's very blatantly agreed upon.

[Ignaz]

Nightborne are a completely separate race to night elves, they've evolved over the course of 10,000 years to become a unique race. High elves on the other hand have not experienced this level of evolution as they've literally only been separated by their kin for 10-15 years and still draw energy from the same font of power (sunwell). Nightborne drew from a different source of power to the night elves for 10,000 years and subsequently became a unique elven race.

The nightborne (also spelled the Nightborne)[2] or shal'dorei in the native tongue[3][4] are a powerful and mystical race of elves who live in Suramar. Since the city was first separated from the rest of the world over 10,000 years ago, they are no longer true night elves and have evolved by the Nightwell into a unique elven species.

Compare that to high elves:
However, a few high elves did not rename themselves blood elves. High elves and blood elves are physiologically the same race, and the difference between high and blood elves is only political

So your counter-argument falls flat on its face. Void elves on the other hand have undergone a form of transformation and have become something different to their high/blood elven kin. Hence why they were made as the AR and not high elves, who as stated above, are the exact same as blood elves... they are the same race. We have senior developers confirming this on several occasions, and no amount of head canon or personal bias can change this FACT.

You want a high elf? The Horde is waiting for you, at no extra cost to your subscription. You have the exact same opportunity as me or any other player to create a high elven character, and have had so since TBC.

Do you even know what physiology is?

[Strippling]

You show a lack of understanding of my argument using the Nightborne. They are what the Night Elf civilization used to be. Obelisk's argument is "that if you want to play our race you actually have to play our race" yet Horde players don't have to do this. They get to play their own version of a Night Elf.

Again, nightborne are a completely different race to night elves. They descend from night elves, and that's where their connection ends. No different to all elves descending from trolls. They have as much in common with night elves as they do trolls. High elves on the other hand have only but a political difference. The high elf race is already playable, hence the reason "the horde is waiting for you". Night elves are already playable, so if I wanted to play one I can do so on the Alliance. Nightborne are not night elves and are canonically a different race of elves to any other elves. So, back to square one, high elves are not different to blood elves... the two being the same race. As such, void elves were created as a new and unique elven race as a counterpart to the Nightborne. The only tit-for-tat is the model, not the race.

And if you think Nightborne are not Night Elves then it's just apparent obtuseness.

The nightborne (also spelled the Nightborne)[2] or shal'dorei in the native tongue[3][4] are a powerful and mystical race of elves who live in Suramar. Since the city was first separated from the rest of the world over 10,000 years ago, they are no longer true night elves and have evolved by the Nightwell into a unique elven species.

No obtuseness, just canon based facts.

So in that same vein of Obelisk's argument, why aren't Horde having to make the choice of "if you want to play our race you actually have to play our race"? Nightborne are the "back door option" for Horde Night Elves.

Again, nightborne are a different race of elves to night elves. Alliance aligned high elves are not a different race of elves to blood elves. Given that blood/high elf exiles are the same race, Blizzard gave their reasonable response "the Horde is waiting for you". Given the nightborne and night elves are NOT the same elven race, no such statement was given to players.... well actually no such statement was given to Horde players because we don't tend to ask for alliance races to be on the Horde.

[Doffen]

Again, nightborne are a completely different race to night elves. They descend from night elves, and that's where their connection ends.

They are the same night elves as Tyrande, just that the Nightwell changed their physical appearance. They ARE Night Elves.

It would be the same as someone claiming that Void Elves are totally different from High Elves. They are still High Elves, just changed their physical appearance.

[Strippling]

Do you even know what physiology is?

The quote was extracted from a source, not my own words.

Physiology is one aspect of biology. It seems though you're more concerned with arguing semantics then actually discussing the topic at hand.

If you disagree with me then please offer an explanation, backed with credible sources. If not, arguing semantics only makes you look desperate.

[Ignaz]

The quote was extracted from a source, not my own words.

Physiology is one aspect of biology. It seems though you're more concerned with arguing semantics then actually discussing the topic at hand.

If you disagree with me then please offer an explanation, backed with credible sources. If not, arguing semantics only makes you look desperate.

Semantics has a lot to do if you're going to argue against an idea. A word can completely change the meaning of a sentence.
And it is more important if you will use that reference to validate your point

If your ''source '' knows some of physiology, he / she must understand that it is a science that studies biological processes that keep different organisms alive. Knowing this, the argument that HE and BE are physiologically the same is irrelevant since that '' equality '' could be shared with other races.

And if you mean ''genetically the same '' that would be closer to what (I think) your source wanted to say, and even using genetic excuses, it would be wrong, since BE mutated because of the interaction with fel magic (yes, the change of skin and eye color can be considered a mutation)

[FlubberPuddy]

They are the same night elves as Tyrande, just that the Nightwell changed their physical appearance. They ARE Night Elves.

It would be the same as someone claiming that Void Elves are totally different from High Elves. They are still High Elves, just changed their physical appearance.

Exactly. Tyrande grew up in Suramar, it was her home. That Nightborne changed doesn't matter. They represent an aspect of Night Elf society and thus should belong to Night elf players the same way Blood Elf players try to claim everything with the high elf race belongs to them.

It's the same concept. Yet people don't like it when you try to use that kind of logic here.

[Ielenia]

Oh again this shit, fuck up the Elf

If you're not here to contribute to the discussion, from either side... why are you even here? To whine about people talking about something you don't care about?

[Doffen]

Exactly. Tyrande grew up in Suramar, it was her home. That Nightborne changed doesn't matter. They represent an aspect of Night Elf society and thus should belong to Night elf players the same way Blood Elf players try to claim everything with the high elf race belongs to them.

It's the same concept. Yet people don't like it when you try to use that kind of logic here.

It is, and yeah, I have been here discussing. Not participating much here anymore, but still read a lot.

The Nightborne is the Highborn. Simple as that. They were the followers of Queen Azshara until they figured out she was insane. Tyrande was part of that society. But she was different in her ideologies compared to the rest, eventually. Night Elves is a broad term, every elf we see in the game comes from the Night Elves. Highborne, Nightborne, Night Elves, High Elves, Blood Elves, Void Elves, other elves, Half-elves etc. The difference though compared to High Elves is that the Nightborne stayed in Suramar and Kalimdor. They practiced their old ways, as Night Elves. You can see that from the Highborne of Shen'ralar. They kept their Night Elf appearance, this is how Thal'ryssa and the other Nightborne would have looked like if they didn't get changed from the Nightwell.

The ingame cut-scene from Thal'ryssa talking about Suramar is proof of this. She got the Night Elven look.

[Shakana]

They are the same night elves as Tyrande, just that the Nightwell changed their physical appearance. They ARE Night Elves.

It would be the same as someone claiming that Void Elves are totally different from High Elves. They are still High Elves, just changed their physical appearance.

I think we need to make a drawing: Humans: variety of colors, variety of eye colors, variety of skins, variety of political views, thin and fat, still HUMANS. On a fantasy game, they (High/Blood Elves) just got their eyes changed by something that happened instead of being born with it, doesn't mean they are not the same.

But you have as well kultirans to show different humans.

So this being said, you can have repeated races, but i don't think it's necessary. That's all. They even made Kultirans large to differentiate from normal humans.

Why would blizz make players look to blood elves eyes or high elves eyes, to see who is who, unless, they change their appearance too?

They can change them.I will stay with @Ignaz and say Nozdormu High elves personalization is the option here, no Doubt. They would look more unique. They got separated from Blood Elves so they can change meanwhile.

Maybe the Fel exposure didn't let Blood Elves evolve in appearance, but High Elves did. There is so much more stuff where you can have creat(e)ivity and not just mess around with the information you have, lore wasn't made with existent things, lore was created with creativity.

Being creative means someone that knows how to create. Not make a copy of a copy. And in this game you don't need to go in such a straight line.

(Even more them using void elves to show how we can just twist the lore in matter of seconds)

Nightborne will always be Night Elves variation. Evolved in a unique way, doesn't mean they are not night elves.

Night Elves evolved to Highborne and High elves, from Highborne to Nightborne, and High Elves to Blood Elves, from High/Blood to Void Elves.

Night Elves are like Human race, that had and have different people in every corner. It's ironic we being humans and not understanding there's different elves but they all came from the same first elves - Night Elves.

And the more they evolved, the more they appreciated other luxury than just nature, and living in trees. Seems pretty similar to humanity, in the beginning without much constructions there was a lot of nature, the more people appreciate architecture and loved luxury, the more that nature disappeared. But there's still places like those, for example, let's say Amazon. But they are trying to destroy amazon too. For what? To get wood, to make luxury toilet paper and paper in general. This is a luxury, i'm sure the nightborne would love it.

Dark trolls were the Australopithecus, and Night Elves are the genus Homo/Homo sapiens. (In evolution terms, not being racist, btw.)

My analogy:
All the elves are like humanity.
All elves exist.
None is dead.

[Strippling]

Semantics has a lot to do if you're going to argue against an idea. A word can completely change the meaning of a sentence.
And it is more important if you will use that reference to validate your point

If your ''source '' knows some of physiology, he / she must understand that it is a science that studies biological processes that keep different organisms alive. Knowing this, the argument that HE and BE are physiologically the same is irrelevant since that '' equality '' could be shared with other races.

And if you mean ''genetically the same '' that would be closer to what (I think) your source wanted to say, and even using genetic excuses, it would be wrong, since BE mutated because of the interaction with fel magic (yes, the change of skin and eye color can be considered a mutation)

Firstly, I'm not interested in semantics. If you can't clearly and concisely state your argument, followed by backing it with credible sources, then you're really just reaching and arguing for the sake of personal biased agenda.

Secondly, we know blood elves and high elves are biologically the same. Blood elves were never "mutated", simply tainted due to indirect exposure to fel. That taint is cleansing, as is apparent due to the golden eye options. Soon blue eye options may also become a reality (we'll find out when blood elf customizations are announced/datamined), which would further support the notion that blood elves who don't dabble with fel (ie pretty much any blood elf who isn't a warlock or DH) are slowly being cleansed by the sunwell. And guess what, the high elf exiles are also sustained by this very same sunwell... further bonding the biology and physiology of both groups.

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly. Tyrande grew up in Suramar, it was her home. That Nightborne changed doesn't matter. They represent an aspect of Night Elf society and thus should belong to Night elf players the same way Blood Elf players try to claim everything with the high elf race belongs to them.

It's the same concept. Yet people don't like it when you try to use that kind of logic here.

Not the same concept. At all.

Nightborne are a new type of elf, evolved from the night elves. Alliance aligned high elves are not a new type of elf, and are the exact same race as blood elves. Massive difference.

Nightborne have lived separately to night elves for 10,000 years. Alliance aligned high elves have lived separately to Horde high elves (ie blood elves) for 10-15 years. Massive difference.

- - - Updated - - -

And the 'shitty reasons' are our desire that our chosen race is treated with as much respect as any other race in the game, and that if you want to play our race you actually have to play our race rather than attempting to get High Elves through the back door. Some players respect Blizzard's design and narrative choices and if the only way to play a traditional high elf is on the Horde, then that is where you should come to play a traditional high elf.

Pretty much this.

[Doffen]

I think we need to make a drawing: Humans: variety of colors, variety of eye colors, variety of skins, variety of political views, thin and fat, still HUMANS. On a fantasy game, they (High/Blood Elves) just got their eyes changed by something that happened instead of being born with it, doesn't mean they are not the same.

I am one of those few here in this thread(it seems) that really likes Void Elves for what they are, and how they look. I wasn't and still not in the group of the pro High Elves for the Alliance, but I am all for more options. If Alliance got High Elves that looked differently than Blood Elves, I would think that would be a great addition to the game. If the Alliance got High Elves that looks like High Elves that would be cool too.

But definitely, I agree. I really love Void Elves, and the small changes they got were good changes imo. I laughed at the idea first when it was datamined back in 2017, but here I am, 4 Void Elves at max later. Blizzard can go in any direction they want, and more variety, more options within the factions and between them would be good. To make an example of something that they did wrong, is that I think that one of the reasons when it comes to the playable Nightborne, that they made them different from the npc Nightborne was to make them more like Night Elves, just like Void Elves are like Blood Elves. Which I also think is kinda silly when the npc Nightborne looks so much better. They had the possibility to make them more unique, but they didn't, they even went out of their way to make them more similar to Night Elves. Which I think is rather silly.

But this is Blizzard going safe, they don't seem to like to make stuff so much more different. We players seems to disagree with that.
It went well with Void Elves, which is based on the most popular model. And don't mistake my favoritism of Void Elves for some kind of hypocrisy :P I just think overall Blizzard could give us more options and more variety when it comes to races. The new customization options we seem to be getting in Shadowlands seems to be good though.

[Shakana]

I am one of those few here in this thread(it seems) that really likes Void Elves for what they are, and how they look. I wasn't and still not in the group of the pro High Elves for the Alliance, but I am all for more options. If Alliance got High Elves that looked differently than Blood Elves, I would think that would be a great addition to the game. If the Alliance got High Elves that looks like High Elves that would be cool too.

But definitely, I agree. I really love Void Elves, and the small changes they got were good changes imo. I laughed at the idea first when it was datamined back in 2017, but here I am, 4 Void Elves at max later. Blizzard can go in any direction they want, and more variety, more options within the factions and between them would be good. To make an example of something that they did wrong, is that I think that one of the reasons when it comes to the playable Nightborne, that they made them different from the npc Nightborne was to make them more like Night Elves, just like Void Elves are like Blood Elves. Which I also think is kinda silly when the npc Nightborne looks so much better. They had the possibility to make them more unique, but they didn't, they even went out of their way to make them more similar to Night Elves. Which I think is rather silly.

But this is Blizzard going safe, they don't seem to like to make stuff so much more different. We players seems to disagree with that.
It went well with Void Elves, which is based on the most popular model. And don't mistake my favoritism of Void Elves for some kind of hypocrisy :P I just think overall Blizzard could give us more options and more variety when it comes to races. The new customization options we seem to be getting in Shadowlands seems to be good though.

You're also one of the few that thinks like me that nightborne npc looks much better. I like females better too, maybe the eyes are a bit too chinese but i love the npcs nightborne and i wanted them playable, and they were added for my surprise but totally changed, but the males looks amazing as npcs. As playable, and i already said this, i think blizzard needs to change male characters to make them more appealing, they don't have much manly good looking faces, they look weird.







Really and the chin nightborne heritage on female looks so bad.

It's like a damn beard. The rest of the heritage is great without that little detail. And male could have heritage like in the second image.
It could change from a dress to this on a male, once you mog it.

Ok just compare this ye:

What we have:


What we could have:



(Getting images from google, so still gets the current model)



I want them to be open minded. And change even Nightborne as they could change the High Elves.

They want to make npcs appealing for the game to play, but once it's for the player to play it's like "oh, now now guys, we need to make them look like night elves, after you spent court of stars and the whole suramar content seeing the nightborne nothing like night elves. We want you to look at your nightborne, and remember all the time, that it was a night elf, adding the same features on them now."

Reeeeee. xD Guess what i would have turned into a nightborne and give them more money if they made it look like more npcs.

[Doffen]

You're also one of the few that thinks like me that nightborne npc looks much better. I like females better too, maybe the eyes are a bit too chinese but i love the npcs nightborne and i wanted them playable, and they were added for my surprise but totally changed, but the males looks amazing as npcs. As playable, and i already said this, i think blizzard needs to change male characters to make them more appealing, they don't have much manly good looking faces, they look weird.







Really and the chin nightborne heritage on female looks so bad.

It's like a damn beard. The rest of the heritage is great without that little detail. And male could have heritage like in the second image.
It could change from a dress to this on a male, once you mog it.

Ok just compare this ye:

What we have:


What we could have:



(Getting images from google, so still gets the current model)



I want them to be open minded. And change even Nightborne as they could change the High Elves.

Yep, totally agree. I mean just looking at the pictures it tells a story of something weird that happened :P

I think the Nightborne Heritage looks awesome, except that "beard" hehe, which is strangely enough from the robe. If they just removed that, perfect. But the picture you linked here with the female with that purple dress, that is even better. Don't know how many times I mentioned that during the countless Court of Stars runs I had(more than 500, true story), but that dress, those shoulders on that female character. Just lovely.

[Shakana]

Yep, totally agree. I mean just looking at the pictures it tells a story of something weird that happened :P

I think the Nightborne Heritage looks awesome, except that "beard" hehe, which is strangely enough from the robe. If they just removed that, perfect. But the picture you linked here with the female with that purple dress, that is even better. Don't know how many times I mentioned that during the countless Court of Stars runs I had(more than 500, true story), but that dress, those shoulders on that female character. Just lovely.

It's because court of stars, that was my favorite dungeon run in m+ even, that i wanted nightborne so bad. xD I saw this so much that i was already in love with nightborne and wanted them on the game so bad.

I loved suramar, and i knew so much rep with them, would probably give a race to play. Like Liadrin even talking about helping them, both alliance and horde, and i said, oh man there's no way they won't make them playable. But i was still skeptic. Because i didn't see blizzard adding a new race for so long!

But when they did i got disappointed. I've seen this amazing guys in suramar, such a great design, and then they are this, you stand close to a nightborne npc with your nightborne and you feel misplaced. xD

Please, they know how to make good stuff, i think it's time for them to give us players something better. I'm tired of looking like a garbage version of npcs.

I want to be epic too.

And high elves i wouldn't mind having them too, difference is that i play horde on a hardcore way and unfortunately i wouldn't make one, but one can still dream, it's not because i'm horde that i don't want have them added, but i want to differentiate a high elf from a blood elf that is not just the eyes.

C'mon blizzard :c take opportunity on the new customizations to do this. And later on Allied races too.

[Chain Chungus]

Nozdormu Elves should totally be a thing! Let the Blood Elves be Blood Elves and give High Elves his awesome model.

[Pheraz]

You're also one of the few that thinks like me that nightborne npc looks much better. I like females better too, maybe the eyes are a bit too chinese but i love the npcs nightborne and i wanted them playable, and they were added for my surprise but totally changed, but the males looks amazing as npcs. As playable, and i already said this, i think blizzard needs to change male characters to make them more appealing, they don't have much manly good looking faces, they look weird.







Really and the chin nightborne heritage on female looks so bad.

It's like a damn beard. The rest of the heritage is great without that little detail. And male could have heritage like in the second image.
It could change from a dress to this on a male, once you mog it.

Ok just compare this ye:

What we have:


What we could have:



(Getting images from google, so still gets the current model)



I want them to be open minded. And change even Nightborne as they could change the High Elves.

They want to make npcs appealing for the game to play, but once it's for the player to play it's like "oh, now now guys, we need to make them look like night elves, after you spent court of stars and the whole suramar content seeing the nightborne nothing like night elves. We want you to look at your nightborne, and remember all the time, that it was a night elf, adding the same features on them now."

Reeeeee. xD Guess what i would have turned into a nightborne and give them more money if they made it look like more npcs.

Totally agreed! But what they should have changed is the running animation

It looks soooooo weird when they run

They should have taken the exact night elf animations as they are perfect as they are

[Ignaz]

I think we need to make a drawing: Humans: variety of colors, variety of eye colors, variety of skins, variety of political views, thin and fat, still HUMANS. On a fantasy game, they (High/Blood Elves) just got their eyes changed by something that happened instead of being born with it, doesn't mean they are not the same.

But you have as well kultirans to show different humans.

So this being said, you can have repeated races, but i don't think it's necessary. That's all. They even made Kultirans large to differentiate from normal humans.

Why would blizz make players look to blood elves eyes or high elves eyes, to see who is who, unless, they change their appearance too?

They can change them.I will stay with @Ignaz and say Nozdormu High elves personalization is the option here, no Doubt. They would look more unique. They got separated from Blood Elves so they can change meanwhile.

Maybe the Fel exposure didn't let Blood Elves evolve in appearance, but High Elves did. There is so much more stuff where you can have creat(e)ivity and not just mess around with the information you have, lore wasn't made with existent things, lore was created with creativity.

Being creative means someone that knows how to create. Not make a copy of a copy. And in this game you don't need to go in such a straight line.

(Even more them using void elves to show how we can just twist the lore in matter of seconds)

Nightborne will always be Night Elves variation. Evolved in a unique way, doesn't mean they are not night elves.

Night Elves evolved to Highborne and High elves, from Highborne to Nightborne, and High Elves to Blood Elves, from High/Blood to Void Elves.

Night Elves are like Human race, that had and have different people in every corner. It's ironic we being humans and not understanding there's different elves but they all came from the same first elves - Night Elves.

And the more they evolved, the more they appreciated other luxury than just nature, and living in trees. Seems pretty similar to humanity, in the beginning without much constructions there was a lot of nature, the more people appreciate architecture and loved luxury, the more that nature disappeared. But there's still places like those, for example, let's say Amazon. But they are trying to destroy amazon too. For what? To get wood, to make luxury toilet paper and paper in general. This is a luxury, i'm sure the nightborne would love it.

Dark trolls were the Australopithecus, and Night Elves are the genus Homo/Homo sapiens. (In evolution terms, not being racist, btw.)

My analogy:
All the elves are like humanity.
All elves exist.
None is dead.

I share your point, totally