Why are people bad at wow/raiding.

[Alphatorg]

Did you ever think people learn better with one on one interaction? I have helped many people become better because they had a hard time with websites but when I sat them down in discord it vastly improved them

I absolutely believe what you say to be true, just as I believe that it's not my job and a waste of my time to force my advice on to random players that happen to sabotage my raid.

[sosleapy]

Because the game has failed new players for close to a decade.

There is no leveling. Every expansion you buy don't you get a free boost? So they just boost and skip leveling.

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I absolutely believe what you say to be true, just as I believe that it's not my job and a waste of my time to force my advice on to random players that happen to sabotage my raid.

I know there is people that want help and people that don't just like the time I tried to help someone and they blew up in my face saying they was playing the game how a tank should and that tanks ain't for dpsing at all. Just your comment is not true for everyone and it makes you look like an asshat

[Nnyco]

some people just want to play a game without learning or optimizing

[Kakera]

I can tell you are a smart person. Because you think people who are too dumb/uninformed for heroic should start with in-depth log analysis and discord channels where people discuss how to unlock the last couple of % of their spec, instead of letting them start with the basics. Thank you for your contribution.

Yes, because feeding new players false information is exactly how you teach them to be resourceful at the top level. You're the type of person who refuses to let teachers teach new math because it's complex and "unnecessary" despite it teaching core principals for higher level math later on. Keep replying and embarrassing yourself. You're a laughing stock.

Also, don't get butthurt I called you out for using icyveins. It's your fault you choose to use a misinformed "guide" website instead of taking the effort to improve via your own means. You're the type of heroic raider that tries to lead pugs and ends up killing your own group by choosing to invite 960+ players with no logs versus taking the time to see if they have anything above green parses before inviting them. No wonder you're mad. You probably got so pissed at all the super mega "pros" you were inviting to your little heroic pugs and made this thread because you're disgusted at the community when really you should be disgusted at yourself for not taking the time/energy to create a filter for yourself.

Shut up and delete this and uninstall. I mean that sincerely. This thread is a joke and anyone with any sort of mythic level progression is laughing at you.

[sosleapy]

some people just want to play a game without learning or optimizing

Exactly you dont like it make a damn guild and stop pugging so much much. Blizz made the game this way and it aint going away.

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oh and we ALLL know ilevel>skill too. i got turned down for a heroic raid at 963 the other day knows the fights like back of hand for a higher ilevel tank that couldnt survive jack squat. Reason i knew this is i watched on a stream and i was like wow.

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and the OP is a reason why i dont do heroic anymore because of the elitest attitude. I am afraid if i screw up 1 tiny thing that makes his life even .001% harder he is going to get mad and kick instantly. and also its end of expansion who gives a damn lol

[Alphatorg]

Yes, because feeding new players false information is exactly how you teach them to be resourceful at the top level. You're the type of person who refuses to let teachers teach new math because it's complex and "unnecessary" despite it teaching core principals for higher level math later on. Keep replying and embarrassing yourself. You're a laughing stock.

Also, don't get butthurt I called you out for using icyveins. It's your fault you choose to use a misinformed "guide" website instead of taking the effort to improve via your own means. You're the type of heroic raider that tries to lead pugs and ends up killing your own group by choosing to invite 960+ players with no logs versus taking the time to see if they have anything above green parses before inviting them. No wonder you're mad. You probably got so pissed at all the super mega "pros" you were inviting to your little heroic pugs and made this thread because you're disgusted at the community when really you should be disgusted at yourself for not taking the time/energy to create a filter for yourself.

Shut up and delete this and uninstall. I mean that sincerely. This thread is a joke and anyone with any sort of mythic level progression is laughing at you.

I don't mean to disrespect your psychic powers but maybe you shouldn't try to read so much into post that just isn't there. I don't use Icy Veins (except for fresh twinks) and I never said I do, I just pointed it out as an obvious point to start looking for information. I also don't bother trying to create/lead heroic raids, I don't really get mad about pugs being pugs I just wonder how people come to make the mistakes they often make in heroic raids and I killed Argus (M) months ago.

[FelPlague]

The real reasons:

1. People are not really trying - this is the biggest one imo;
2. Many players are (very) young;
3. Many players are from non-English speaking countries and struggle with truly understand what they read;
4. Many people are very inept with keyboard/mouse when gaming;
5. Many people are unable to focus or discipline themselves.

6. some people just dont have the mental capacity to become good enough, like there is people who can be top world scientests, and some people cant, no matter how much you train, no matter how much you study.
Some people will be world record breaking runners, well some people just cant, no matter how much they train, people naturally have a limit, no matter how much they do, they have a limit that cannot be broken, for some of us that is lower then others.

[valky94]

My gf doesn't want to read up on things because she doesn't want other people telling her how to play, instead she plays the way she wants even if it's not optimal but she's also having more fun that way.

there is a difference between playing how you want and completely ignoring game/boss mechanics, and if her "play for fun" is hurting other around her then it may be time to change something,

for example in a moba or team shooter, if someone tells me after chainfeeding or just not contributing to the win and ruining the game for 4 other people and says after "omg retard its just a game i play it for fun", something is wrong with that person as it just ruined the game for 4 (potentialy the enemy team aswell) just for its own amusement

[Samuraijake]

My gf doesn't want to read up on things because she doesn't want other people telling her how to play, instead she plays the way she wants even if it's not optimal but she's also having more fun that way.

the question is.. does she walk into someones raid fucking sucking ass and hurting other peoples entertainment time for sake of her own?

[kamuimac]

the question is.. does she walk into someones raid fucking sucking ass and hurting other peoples entertainment time for sake of her own?

why shouldnt she though. at around 942-943 she has literaly nothing else to do but to try to join hc antorus or mythic + 15 in order to get upgrades.

you know why those shit players join your runs ? because their only alternative is unsubing since game doesnt offer them other source of gear progression.

give them something to do and i bet that 99,9 will say "fuck pugging ill rather farm 30 hc dungeons a week spending 20 hours in there rather then join raid pugs" - just look what happens with essences - how many people farm that 1 daily dungeon for them.

do you honestly think that people are masochistic enough to enjoy pugging ? ofc they dont but they have nothing else to do in game besides trying to get into runs which have guaranteed loot upgrades for them - nobody sane will farm for titanforges

[taishar68]

Just an old guys perespective here, hopefully I am adding something constructive to the thread.

I’ve been playing since 06, and I’ve always wanted to be involved with raiding. So I did what all raiders are supposed to do. Study my class. Make sure enchants, gems, food, flasks, etc are optimized. Learn the fights.

I was ok in vanilla raids, but that was a different animal. I rarely broke top 10 DPS in BC, and I struggled with performance up until ICC, where I did really well with our guild. It is probably not a coincidence that I was out of work at the time and played a LOT. Ever since, being back to work and life taking more time from the game, I just haven’t been that good. Struggling to learn mechanics, struggling to achieve good DPS. Struggling.

So I quit a few times, came back each time getting excited, but the results stayed the same. Mediocre to average DPS, and far from flawless execution. I guess I never reached the point of annoying someone like the op because I never raid in pugs, and I am in a very supportive guild (who have always asserted I am my harshest critic)...but I wonder how many folks like me that do pug don’t meet up to what seem, to many, very low standards?

There is a phrase I’ve used often while playing WoW: “it’s hard until it’s easy”...but for some people, maybe it’s never hard (rimshot!) to them I say...grats, I guess?

I think if players with less skill annoy you, you shouldn’t pug, because not everyone takes themselves out of the pool, and you will invariably find them.

Just my .02. Cheers.

[Dahij]

the question is.. does she walk into someones raid fucking sucking ass and hurting other peoples entertainment time for sake of her own?

No, except for LFR. I usually give her some small pointers and she does "fine" dps (depending on who you ask, but compared to LFR people it's fine). I invite her to my raids that I run with my guild and friends when we're just running things for fun.

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So she's okay with forcing other people to adjust their own playstyle for her? It's fine to play your own way when you're solo. It's decidedly less so when you're ruining 9-29 other people's day by doing it.

She does mostly solo things and LFR/LFD. Her dps is fine for that.

[Deleted]

because contrary to the belief of an average wow player who keeps up on varios wow websites/streams/... the game us actually very hard after a certain point. it has a ridiculous amount of information to digest, tactics and abilities to learn etc, there is a lot of preparation to do. while all that might seem trivial to me and you and ppl who've likely been playing wow for many years if not over a decade it is quite overwhelming for new players so they carve out their own little corner and stick with it, esoecially if they dont dedicate a lot of time to wow. combine that with the fact that raiding requires coordination of 10+ ppl which makes everything harder

back to preparation part. i got a friend of mine into OW which has a LOT less information and preparation to get to know what to do. I suggested to him to check out how to properly play any specific hero and role and he scoffed at me and, I quote, said ''i didnt pay 50 eur to do homework''. i'd say he's an average player. now apply that to wow

many seasoned/dedicated wow players will scoff but content like heroic raids and mage tower are actually hard content for most ppl, not to even mention mythic of which i know fairly little as i stop at clearing tiers at Heroic (unless its called emerald nightmare :P)

[Boricha]

You have to realize that a vast majority of players play WoW sporadically and have no knowledge of the game outside what they see while logged in. They've never seen or heard of MMOC, Icy-Veins, or any class specific sites. They have no idea that they are bad, or how to tell what good/bad is. They aren't aware of how their spells interact, or that there are proper rotations. They don't know what the terms "patch" or "hotfix" means, and they don't read the notes. And also, the game doesn't TEACH you anything about how to play. I feel bad for new players who boost immediately, and then get told to go to their class hall with no explanation of what or where that is, no run down on the UI, no intro to their class or any of the games systems, etc...

If you're a WoW player on MMOC, then you are likely more informed and engaged with the game than 90%+ of the player base.

[jasoncb]

no? where did I say anything about boss mechanics?

I was talking about the game overall.

turst me, there are players who are quite literally as much better than you in the game as a pro footballer is in football.

and news flash, they do learn from each other and dont stubbornly go "I'm so good I can play 100% perfectly without any input from others"

wow is a constantly evolving game with so many variables, that you literally cant be the best without consulting other people.

I'm on the rogue discord a lot and even though I'm a quite highly ranked rogue on logs, I still occasionally learn something new about the rotations, or abusing some mechanic somewhere etc, that I wouldve realized either never, or much much slower.

I still watch top ranked logs of fights even though I have multiple top 5(and a few rank1) parses, just so maybe I can learn a new trick.

If I was content with how good I am without learning from others I'd never be performing this well.

I'm not saying wow is as hard as pro football.

I'm saying that the whole philosophy of "I can do it all by myself" will only get you so far anywhere in life.

Except wow is not a professional sport, very few earn anything from it. Whats this agenda about "being the best"? If thats fun for you then fine but people in general who play this game just want to have fun. I can understand if a person is not improving and they have hit their celing they may want to consult a guide, but it shouldn't be the first thing they do everytime.

Also i am not talking about mythic difficulty, that mode is meant for people like you but the lesser difficulties should be there for people to learn the fights.

[Dastreus]

As someone that has cleared all the content Savage has to offer including Ultimate Bahamut as well as raided at a top 10 US level for multiple tiers in WoW I laughed at this post. Like straight giggles turned into laughter. Most people have quit FF this expansion because of the ease of difficulty. Including myself. Just because you quit WoW due to legion burn out and decided to go try another MMO doesn't mean your uneducated opinions become fact.

Not relying on third party resources that minimize movement/thought process and increase reaction mid boss fight says a lot about your level of play. Mid fucking tier my guy. You're probably the type of healer that doesn't DPS in FF and thinks he rolled a healer simply to heal and that needing extra dps to kill a fight is a crutch. You're a really good player. Just know that the truly informed players are laughing at you.

Holy strawman, batman. FFXIV is at it's height in subs (as of end of 2017 at least), I am playing Legion and FFXIV, I heal in WoW and not much in FFXIV, but I DO DPS when not healing.

[Bigbazz]

Why are people bad at anything? It's a dumb question because the answer is simple and obvious to anyone with some life experience.

[Tiwack]

Because we've yet to figure out how to best teach people without coming off as arrogant or patronizing. Best you can do is attempt to guide those looking for answers and let everyone explore and learn at their own pace according to their ability.

Some just prefer learning by doing and don't want homework outside the game. Getting their ass handed to them is part of the experience while a basic level of preparation would've robbed them of that experience, laughing at themselves at/and with their friends, but saved on the repair bill. It's all about level of competition and ambition. If the goal is to have fun you're not spending time min-maxing, unless that constitutes fun to you because it's part of the course to hit the mark you're aiming at. Many don't want to read anything they don't have to, thus the dungeon journal is only opened to see loot-drops if that even.
Not everyone have the mechanical skills of a pro gamer that's acquired with a ton of practice and many prefer to experience the game at their own pace instead of "spoiling" it for themselves with icyvein- and fatboss-guides. Figuring out your abilities and those of the pinata-bosses is the bread and butter of the game and not asking yourself to try and figure out working tactics on the go, but just being super well-prepared every tier and patch, often makes the game very stale over time - even if you're among good friends.

[Revamp Man]

because the game itself doesnt teach players how to get better

look at it from their point of view:
i pay 15 bucks a month to play this game and in order to compete with others i need to use outside sources

thats BS and likely the reason bliz is fucking class design and using the gcd change

[xpose]

because the game itself doesnt teach players how to get better

look at it from their point of view:
i pay 15 bucks a month to play this game and in order to compete with others i need to use outside sources

thats BS and likely the reason bliz is fucking class design and using the gcd change

Basically this

The fact you need a third party addon to "sim" what should be obvious gear upgrades shows how shitty blizzard fucked up itemization and class balance.