Titanforging gone out of hand.

[Pooti]

I swear I'm the only one who loves Titanforging

I like it too. Although I do not consider ilvl to be the metric by which player ability can be ranked. Achievements are much more viable of a yardstick. Or both things together.

[HuxNeva]

I swear I'm the only one who loves Titanforging

I like it as well and so far I haven't read any argument against it that has made me change my stance. I do wish Blizzard would be open and publish the proc %'s so we could lay to rest some myth about it s. Armory scrapers like MMO-C or Raider.io could publish a decent approximation.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

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I think there are two kinds of people: the ones that love predictability, working their way down a checklist, an have clear 'done' or way-points, and then there are others, who hate this type of 'do your chores, press the leaver, get the reward' type of setup. I'm with the latter. I find 'dailies', point/currency based systems, 'quest' style incremental time-gated legendaries unbearably boring. to me those work for predictable reward situations realy feels like a second job instead of an adventure.

I wonder if the preference for these are related to other things like the (flawed, I know, but still useful) Myers–Briggs personality type classifications.

I want a combination loot would still drop but vendor gear and boes would help people deal with bad luck. Titan forging reward luck exclusively it doesn't take player ability into account. It doesn't care about the level of content or effort that's why I can't support the current system in anyway.

[HuxNeva]

Titan forging reward luck exclusively it doesn't take player ability into account. It doesn't care about the level of content or effort that's why I can't support the current system in anyway.

I don't see how you can fail to take into account that a 45 ilvl 'ability' difference spread over 4 tiers, guaranteeing that on average a person with even just 1 'ability' related tier difference will with the same effort end up 15 ilvls above the other. 'Luck' is related to outliers that average out over time.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I don't see how you can fail to take into account that a 45 ilvl 'ability' difference spread over 4 tiers, guaranteeing that on average a person with even just 1 'ability' related tier difference will with the same effort end up 15 ilvls above the other. 'Luck' is related to outliers that average out over time.

They tell me why all the top mythic+ player are setting with one or two 980 drops 4 or 5 months into antorus not to mention it makes getting best in slot impossible. It also doesn't take effort or skill into account enough that's one of my major beef with legion. I want to high to push high keys do mythic raiding but why should the average player when heroic can get you there with less effort.

[Jastall]

It might not be going anywhere but the game would be better if it did. In ever way.
Also, you don't do M+ to gear up.

Then the various pieces of M+ gear worn by most high-end players I come across must be a figment of our collective imagination, I suppose. As is the need of many players to complete their +15.

[HuxNeva]

They tell me why all the top mythic+ player are setting with one or two 980 drops 4 or 5 months into antorus not to mention it makes getting best in slot impossible. It also doesn't take effort or skill into account enough that's one of my major beef with legion. I want to high to push high keys do mythic raiding but why should the average player when heroic can get you there with less effort.

Bis is an outdated (and frankly extremely limited and boring) concept. Gear is much more situaltional now, even without WF/TF. Still want a BiS list for yourself? Just take a forge level in line with the effort you are willing to spend, and voila, you can make your 'list' and check it off.Sites like AMR will even let you generate the list with a few mouseclicks.

I don't get what you want to say with the "top mythic+ player are setting with one or two 980 drops 4 or 5 months into antorus". Do you mean they should have higher gear? If you inspect them, you'll notice that 99% of the time the one or two very high pieces they have are from Mythic raid runs, not from TF'ed M+ gear. And i can guarantee you that in almost all cases, the very few higher TF'd M+ pieces you will find are from the 'weekly chest', a deliberate outlier with high TF proc, not from the 940 base ilvl end of dungeon chests, and these guys and girls clearing >M+20 routinely get showered in loot. So if even they don't have it, doesn't that bust the 'full 985 from LFR' myth?

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Bis is an outdated (and frankly extremely limited and boring) concept. Gear is much more situaltional now, even without WF/TF. Still want a BiS list for yourself? Just take a forge level in line with the effort you are willing to spend, and voila, you can make your 'list' and check it off.Sites like AMR will even let you generate the list with a few mouseclicks.

I don't get what you want to say with the "top mythic+ player are setting with one or two 980 drops 4 or 5 months into antorus". Do you mean they should have higher gear? If you inspect them, you'll notice that 99% of the time the one or two very high pieces they have are from Mythic raid runs, not from TF'ed M+ gear. And i can guarantee you that in almost all cases, the very few higher TF'd M+ pieces you will find are from the 'weekly chest', a deliberate outlier with high TF proc, not from the 940 base ilvl end of dungeon chests, and these guys and girls clearing >M+20 routinely get showered in loot. So if even they don't have it, doesn't that bust the 'full 985 from LFR' myth?

Yes I like gathering gear in an role playing game there is a best in slot list... Yes they should have higher gear the average raid tier last 6-9 months. I don't think you can get a full set of 985 gear from looking for raid and my argument is that the gear is unearned because the system only cares about luck at the end of the day.

[Swalload]

Isn't it nice to have gotten your priest viable for mythic progression?

You're also way luckier than average

The problem is not luck or the average, it's the simple fact that it CAN happen yet it should NEVER happen.

[Baroclinic]

They tell me why all the top mythic+ player are setting with one or two 980 drops 4 or 5 months into antorus not to mention it makes getting best in slot impossible. It also doesn't take effort or skill into account enough that's one of my major beef with legion. I want to high to push high keys do mythic raiding but why should the average player when heroic can get you there with less effort.

Better question: What does it matter. Personally, unless my guild decides to come back for some mythic, I'm not going in. Killing a high level boss is not the same as having high level loot. All my few warforged/titanforged does is just makes a normal/heroic boss die a few seconds faster. The difference between an "average" player and a "mythic" raider is the time they spent (or money) to down a mythic boss. A rare 960+ drop will not make a mythic raider any less likely to waste hours wiping to the same bosses with just more crap to wipe too.

What it does do is actually give me(and many others) a reason to go though each week besides the upgrade for my off trinket. If I wanted high gear, I would still push for a mythic pug, but in 4 months most that stuff won't matter anymore.

If I was to waste my time crying about something, it would be the crappy Mythic Dungeons loot system or something.

[Lord Pebbleton]

I dunno, I like how my ilvl has increased dramatically without really putting any bigger effort in it. I am ilvl973 without ever entering mythic Antorus with an ilvl1000 weapon. Everything comes from crazy heroic titanforging (ilvl965-970) or M+15.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Better question: What does it matter. Personally, unless my guild decides to come back for some mythic, I'm not going in. Killing a high level boss is not the same as having high level loot. All my few warforged/titanforged does is just makes a normal/heroic boss die a few seconds faster. The difference between an "average" player and a "mythic" raider is the time they spent (or money) to down a mythic boss. A rare 960+ drop will not make a mythic raider any less likely to waste hours wiping to the same bosses with just more crap to wipe too.

What it does do is actually give me(and many others) a reason to go though each week besides the upgrade for my off trinket. If I wanted high gear, I would still push for a mythic pug, but in 4 months most that stuff won't matter anymore.

If I was to waste my time crying about something, it would be the crappy Mythic Dungeons loot system or something.

It matters to me becomes I'm a completionist and it also motivates people to try to achieve not everyone but some people. I know they're not the same but rewarding people for doing something on easy the same as someone playing the game on insane sounds ridiculous and it is.

What's wrong with the mythic dungeon gearing system other than problems titan-forging causes. It's also not crying, it's a valid complaint.

[Deleted]

and what are u going to do with "prng" if blizz choose to share it?
what ever the number of "prng" would be , it would be same for all , or are you trying to say "prng" is different with different players ?

prng = pseudo random number generator. It's not the number that is of interest but the method of creating the number but to answer your question yes a broken prng creates incorrect results which depending on failure can inadvertently favor some players.

[kamuimac]

--------------


I think there are two kinds of people: the ones that love predictability, working their way down a checklist, an have clear 'done' or way-points, and then there are others, who hate this type of 'do your chores, press the leaver, get the reward' type of setup. I'm with the latter. I find 'dailies', point/currency based systems, 'quest' style incremental time-gated legendaries unbearably boring. to me those work for predictable reward situations realy feels like a second job instead of an adventure.

I wonder if the preference for these are related to other things like the (flawed, I know, but still useful) Myers–Briggs personality type classifications.

still titanforging is working amazingly - whenever im joining my guilds alt runs whenever someone drop titanforges to 960 or higher discord is filled with "oh yeah" and similiar.

exackly how it is designed to work.

blizzard clearly succeded in this so why are you people even discussing titanforges ? its as pointless discussion as the one about mission table both are here to stay forever because they get their job done.

and i bet you right now that yes blizzard will lower chances of titanforging but up the chances for it to titanforge higher - i.e instead 0,5x05x....xN they will go for 0,75x0,75....xN

- - - Updated - - -

I dunno, I like how my ilvl has increased dramatically without really putting any bigger effort in it. I am ilvl973 without ever entering mythic Antorus with an ilvl1000 weapon. Everything comes from crazy heroic titanforging (ilvl965-970) or M+15.

and is it not fun ?

- - - Updated - - -

Bis is an outdated (and frankly extremely limited and boring) concept. Gear is much more situaltional now, even without WF/TF. Still want a BiS list for yourself? Just take a forge level in line with the effort you are willing to spend, and voila, you can make your 'list' and check it off.Sites like AMR will even let you generate the list with a few mouseclicks.

I don't get what you want to say with the "top mythic+ player are setting with one or two 980 drops 4 or 5 months into antorus". Do you mean they should have higher gear? If you inspect them, you'll notice that 99% of the time the one or two very high pieces they have are from Mythic raid runs, not from TF'ed M+ gear. And i can guarantee you that in almost all cases, the very few higher TF'd M+ pieces you will find are from the 'weekly chest', a deliberate outlier with high TF proc, not from the 940 base ilvl end of dungeon chests, and these guys and girls clearing >M+20 routinely get showered in loot. So if even they don't have it, doesn't that bust the 'full 985 from LFR' myth?

985 from lfr is not only a myh but also a lie. and its time to speak about it openly. are there random ultra lucky people who will get that 1x985 piece ? maybe but chances for it are astronomicaly low. saying that people are geared to 960-970 by only doin lfr is straight lie .

blizzard never had problem with lfr titanforging - blizzard had a problem because people pointed out semi correckly that doin mythic raids is kinda shit when you can do i.e 4 hc runs on 4 alts instead4 nights of wiping in mythic raids and get very decent itlls.

they never cared about lfr - all they care about is more and more people realising how pointless and waste of time mythic raiding is

[HuxNeva]

all they care about is more and more people realising how pointless and waste of time mythic raiding is

Agree with most of your points except this one. I don't get why the existence of TF would make Mythic raiding 'pointless'.

[Kaver]

So, i'm a vivid speaker against the current version of titanforging.
I think its complete bullshit and the system is broken to fuck, and should be limited to 2x+5Ilvl.

Now, i've been on both sides of the spectrum, both shit rng and super super fucking stupid RNG.

My main, is 973 raids mythic, cleared 11/11M a couple of times and yeah...

Then i have my alt with 6 days played on, sitting on 980 equip and the fun thing is, it only raids heroic on PL.

https://www.wowprogress.com/characte...aenor/Yolomeme

Yes, i did kill 4 mythic bosses but thats about it.
^is the alt.


Can we PLEASE speak up and make blizzard fucking cap the amount of titanforging we can get?

Thanks boys.

The problem is that the Titanforge system was made for the casual part of the database. Now, you could argue that Blizzard should not cater to casuals but to be honest they probably make 80 % of the total player base, if not more. And I think if you ask most casual normal raiding players, they would say that they love the Titanforge system. In the end, I believe that Blizzard has evaluated that the Titanforge system is great for business. Mythic raiders hate it, myself included, but we are only a small part of their business area.

[kamuimac]

They tell me why all the top mythic+ player are setting with one or two 980 drops 4 or 5 months into antorus not to mention it makes getting best in slot impossible. It also doesn't take effort or skill into account enough that's one of my major beef with legion. I want to high to push high keys do mythic raiding but why should the average player when heroic can get you there with less effort.

because mythic raiders are not pug-idiots who go itlv over anything only go for proper stat priority.

[Raelbo]

So we agree that what you consider elitist behaviour is the result of rational choices made by common players?

No, we don't agree.

Elitism is not the result of rational behaviour at all. It's the result of an irrational response to what may be a rational desire.

You can't blame anyone for behaving elitist then, because it's just what anyone would do if they could.

I completely disagree. No one needs to act like a douche in order to have a fun experience in the game. So in practice: When faced with a choice between accepting two random players, and one has a higher ilevel than the other, it is perfectly rational to choose the one with the higher ilevel. That is different from setting unnecessarily high ilevel thresholds.

For example: I want to run Antorus HC. 55 people apply. I only accept those with ilevel > 975 and reject everyone else, running with only the 15 who passed the threshold. Nothing stops me from extending the group to include the 30 best geared people (the lowest of whom might only be 965).

It would, definitely. Unless you're looking to be carried. Did people get more elitist or are more people looking to get carried? I have a guess.

Elitists aren't looking to be carried. They simply refuse to carry anyone else. So they will select groups of people of the same or higher ilevel than themselves. Elitists also to regard themselves as equal to people who are actually better than them. So if an elitist with ilevel 970 puts together a group with other players 970-980, their opinion is that they are equal contributors. If they put together a group of 960-970, they regard themselves as carrying the others.

Non elitists would put together a group a group of 960-980 and consider themselves as the average.

This is what I said:

It's not a bad system/feature, quite the opposite. They have indeed opted into a compromise, which I think will satisfy everyone. With the exclusion of the most visible gear pieces you bring back the distinction of high end raiding and make it more rewarding. At the same time you still allow for plenty of excitement for titanforging, because the majority of your item slots still allow for random upgrades. That's a diplomatic solution and much better than the two possible extremes.

Reading again what I wrote as a response to what you said, I realise I mispoke. Sorry about that. I guess what I mean is that I don't really think the feature was taken too far and the compromise is not necessary to make it better so much as an attempt to placate the (irrationally) angry mob.

[markos82]

Titanforged gear is worst thing that could have happened to this game. It doesnt matter if you killed Argus on mythic or not the point is if a Normal item can proc to 980 then whats the point in doing something other then to say you killed it. My alt lock is on 968 ( i know kinda low ) but i did one hc run and less than 10 mythic+ dungeons in this season and < 6 days playtime, while my main is 968 or so with mythic kills, close to a 400 dungeons in this season and so on. There is no real reason why item should proc to more then base ilvl for that difficulty + 10ilvl more.

[Kudos]

I like Titanforging. It's one of the reasons people in my guild stuck around for as long as they did. The usual 'I've cleared heroic difficulty and have my gear so I'm taking a break from the game' attitude didn't seem as prevalent or set in as quickly this time around.

Plus, it feels genuinely good to get a TF proc on a piece of gear you were seeking. Keep it as it is. No Titanforge cap. Let the miniscule chance of a crazy proc happen, just to trigger the Mythic raiders.