Does anyone else feels like the class design is stagnated?

[Deleted]

Most games gives you a bunch of classes, which are expanded and polished over the years. Some skills go away, some skills are introduced but the core remains the same.

Now WoW, especially after WotLk seems to not know what they want to do. They change so often and yet are homogeinized.

Legion has done a good job with class fantasy, but all the classes still feel the same at its core - ranged DPS melee DPS tank or Healer. They have also balanced the specs around the artifacts that are getting shelved soon anyway.

You'd think we would have an extremely balanced, polished and heterogeneous set of classes and specs after so many years, where classes are easy to use and hard to master, but we are, dare I to say, worse than in vanilla WoW on class design.

[khazmodan]

the real problem is that the game is much more balanced now but in a boring way. I personally would rather have Rock, Paper, Scissors than what we have now which is paper, paper, paper but in different colors...

[Lochton]

the real problem is that the game is much more balanced now but in a boring way. I personally would rather have Rock, Paper, Scissors than what we have now which is paper, paper, paper but in different colors...

This is how it feels a little..

[Deleted]

the real problem is that the game is much more balanced now but in a boring way. I personally would rather have Rock, Paper, Scissors than what we have now which is paper, paper, paper but in different colors...

Yes some paper is slightly better for mythic +, other paper is slightly better for raiding and other paper is slightly better for PvP so even with all the homogeneization in the world people actively discriminates against you based on your spec for neligible numbers.

This is so stupid.

[Wondercrab]

Class design is in a weird spot right now where they seem to be going back and forth on polished gameplay vs class diversity. Unfortunately it feels to me like they're unable to hit this "best of both worlds" they seem to be aiming for, and instead we have a bunch of classes that are neither as thematically diverse as they were in Vanilla nor as smooth and flexible as they were at the end of MoP.

It's perplexing because it represents a fundamental shift in design goals that happened mid way through the game's lifespan. We don't really have fourteen years worth of polished class iteration because at the beginning of WoD they changed their mind on what they wanted that iteration to be. For all the complaints that can be levelled at class homogenisation, lack of identity, and overlapping roles, it's hard to argue that MoP didn't have the previous design philosophy polished up to near perfection for many classes. It seemed like the devs really knew what they wanted back then, and despite the thematic problems that arose from giving everyone a buff, everyone a mobility skill, everyone a heal etc., they still did a great job of making that model fun in all the ways it was good at being fun.

Right now I just don't feel like there are strong design goals pushing all the classes forward, nor an overarching philosophy the devs are keen on nailing. Classes seem to be floundering, taking one step forward and one step back, or being forced to regress so that other classes can advance.

[Pull My Finger]

People just have a hard time accepting that stuff changes. Now all of a sudden the experts on MMO-C have established that these rookie devs don't know what they want.

[Deleted]

People just have a hard time accepting that stuff changes. Now all of a sudden the experts on MMO-C have established that these rookie devs don't know what they want.

Sure the devs wanted half of the subs to disappear.

[Eleccybubb]

Sure the devs wanted half of the subs to disappear.

And what does this have to do with class design?

Or are you trying to make a wild claim that they all left purely because of class design?

[Pheraz]

That's correct. I have the almost exact same keybindings on all my 12 chars (except healers maybe).

[Tiwack]

It's an astounding mess imo. It's become too big of a focus that big class-changes are necessary every expansion, when just little tweaks and additions like we see in regular patches can go a really long way. Less is more and shows confidence in their philosophy and what they're doing. It's designed to be a roller-coaster with fotm but it's not enjoyable when it's so obvious combined with most abilities aren't unique or distinguished for the class you're playing.

[Monkeymoo]

Well I dunno if stagnating is the word I'd use. Legion was essentially a class design reset button. I do believe for a good amount of specs they did a good job, others (IE Hunters and Warlocks) They did not. From what I've seen in the BfA alpha is that classes are largely similar to now except they feel slightly more polished? Yeah we lost some artifact traits and what not but that was expected. My only real complaint so far is the damned retarded GCD change.

[------------------------]

as someone who played on vanilla, i have to say. The problem with class customization is it becomes really unbalanced, even at some point, people can legally exploit some game mechanics and skills (talents + trinkets for exapmple), making a hell for new players.
WoW back then was no man's land, now is new players friendly.

[Pull My Finger]

Sure the devs wanted half of the subs to disappear.

You sound like a real expert.

[Sencha]

the game is much more balanced now

Not in pvp.

Back to OP, I am also worried about the lack of changes in class design 4 months before release... Do they consider there is nothing to change?

Most specs are just 0 fun to play since Legion.

[Winterpants]

Balanced? Have you gone up against melee classes in BG's, especially frost DK? Ranged doesn't stand a chance against them.

[Dadwen]

And what does this have to do with class design?

Or are you trying to make a wild claim that they all left purely because of class design?

oddly enough most of my friends quit due to class design *tired or relearning their classes or the changes killed the game-play they enjoyed, switching SV to Melee finally got me to unsub (was hoping they'd fix their fuckup in this next expansion so was following it but looks like that hope is dashed.)

[Nerovar]

Yeah, I feel you OP. It's weird when they remove many abilities and two expansions later they still haven't filled the void. I really don't know where Blizzard is going with their class design but for me one thing is certain: It's getting less enjoyable with every expansion since WoD.

[Eleccybubb]

oddly enough most of my friends quit due to class design *tired or relearning their classes or the changes killed the game-play they enjoyed, switching SV to Melee finally got me to unsub (was hoping they'd fix their fuckup in this next expansion so was following it but looks like that hope is dashed.)

They are fixing it though.

SV has a few melee abilities and is becoming a hybrid. Serpent Sting and a few other abilities are becoming ranged now if I recall.

Personally I'm glad they are still trying to commit to some form of a melee Hunter. There are 2 other ranged specs to choose from. There is no harm in revamping one of them into a melee or a hybrid spec.

For me Survival was clunky as hell at the start of Legion. Compared to 7.0 it feels a lot better right now.

My point was you can't correlate sub loss to one huge thing. People leave for different reasons. Don't enjoy the game anymore, class design is probably one, real life commitments and so on. Unless you can safely say the majority quit because of class design all people have to go on who claim that is wild speculation.

[Nefarious Tea]

Class design is pretty stagnant, yes - but that's intentional. They make the class half finished so they can make you grind for a complete class, and thus have to stay subbed (and paying) longer.

First it was artifacts.

Now it's Azerite.

I guarantee you that unless this model tanks subs massively in BFA, it'll be back in 9.0 as well.

[SNES-1990]

They need to cycle in new devs to keep the game from stagnating. They have a whole new roster of artists, so why not team leads? Need fresh ideas in charge.

But the people who defend them to the bitter end will always equate high MAUs to perfect game design (instead of addiction).