BFA vs. Other Expansions

[Lovidicus]

Other Expansions
Warrior: "I got Colossus Smash and Heroic Leap! I smash an enemy's armor and do massive damage and I can jump around the battlefield like a maniac! What did you guys get?"

Shaman: "Awesome! I got Unleash Elements and Spiritwalker's Grace. I can empower abilities with the power of the elements and I can cast while moving."

Warrior: "Sweet!"

'Highfive each other'

BFA
Demon Hunter: "Let's see I don't heal from fire damage anymore and I don't have empowered wards either. What did you lose?"

Death Knight: "We lost leech."

Demon Hunter: "rip"

'Hang heads in silence'

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I swear WoW's playerbase whines about losing skills more than any other game.

Which is to say constantly VS never.

[Deleted]

Its fine.

Until Cataclysm (or was it MoP?) almost nobody had self healing. Tank's job was to make sure mobs hit him, while healers kept tank alive. Today tanks often outheal healers.

Tanks need to stop being immortal.

[Queen of Hamsters]

This is getting memeworthy.

Can't fault the game through legitimate concerns? Jump at what's currently used as fodder. Almost makes me miss the days when "welfare epix" were the main point from Negative Nancies...

Getting new abilities every expansion = what led to all classes having the same tools.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

This is getting memeworthy.

Can't fault the game through legitimate concerns? Jump at what's currently used as fodder. Almost makes me miss the days when "welfare epix" were the main point from Negative Nancies...

Getting new abilities every expansion = what led to all classes having the same tools.

Honestly I wonder how many people are mad that their class is outright bad (which is silly because it's pre-balance pass still) and how many are just reeing that there's no new talent row and/or we're giving up our artifact.


As for getting new abilities each expansion, it CAN be done. With the tradeoff that you lose some abilities as well to avoid bloat and homogenization. Heck, some games even just give you <Skill> 2/3/4 instead of new abilities.

[Craaazyyy]

This is getting memeworthy.

Can't fault the game through legitimate concerns? Jump at what's currently used as fodder. Almost makes me miss the days when "welfare epix" were the main point from Negative Nancies...

Getting new abilities every expansion = what led to all classes having the same tools.

i'd rather them have the same tools if that meant more tools.. like it was in mop.. also its not like classes are so different from each other now.. in reality in mop they made them similar by adding same shit to majority of them, now they made them similar by removing shit from everyone..

also we dont need to get new abilities every expansion, what makes no sense is how we have much less than we used to have

[Rekz]

I swear WoW's playerbase whines about losing skills more than any other game.

Which is to say constantly VS never.

In other games that I'm playing I don't lose skills....at all.

I only gain skills and more abilities as I grow stronger. Take warframe for example. There are these slots called mods that i can add, upgrade, or swap around depending on the type of fights i'm doing.

It feels awesome and I have complete control over my warframe's progression.

WoW is such trash compare to some of these other games out there now. WoW takes away control from the player and actively hinders them slowing down their progress through idiotic changes like GCDs on offensive CDs, artificially induced time gates, or recycling iconic abilities as talent choices (LOL BLIZZ). These other games give players the freedom they so desperately want and that's why WoW is a thing of the past.

Edit: Everything in WoW feels so slow now like your moving through molasses. It's like they slowed everything down even travelling distances. Everything just feels so sluggish and it's not a good feeling.

[Azelas]

I'm not saying I love the class design in BfA, but the amount of self-healing tanks are dishing out is absolutely retarded and HAS to be toned down (same with aff lock self heal)

[Drewbacca]

In other games that I'm playing I don't lose skills....at all.

I only gain skills and more abilities as I grow stronger. Take warframe for example. There are these slots called mods that i can add, upgrade, or swap around depending on the type of fights i'm doing.

It feels awesome and I have complete control over my warframe's progression.

WoW is such trash compare to some of these other games out there now. WoW takes away control from the player and actively hinders them slowing down their progress through idiotic changes like GCDs on offensive CDs, artificially induced time gates, or recycling iconic abilities as talent choices (LOL BLIZZ). These other games give players the freedom they so desperately want and that's why WoW is a thing of the past.

Other games don't last over 10 years. If WoW only added abilities and never subtracted, your ability list would be a hot mess. WoW grows by improving gameplay and systems. Blizzard makes adjustments, evaluates how those adjustments take, and then makes more adjustments. Ideally, every thing that is "taken from" you makes the game better. More often than not, the devs get it right, otherwise the game would have died years ago. However, when they mess up, they generally fix it the next time things get changed.

[s_bushido]

Is it ironic that of the 4 abilities you specifically mentioned, the only one that has been significantly changed since being introduced is Unleash Elements (which still exists as a Resto Shaman talent)? You could have at least picked abilities that were removed, if you wanted to bitch about pruning.

Having tanks that are practically self-sustaining limits encounter design as much as having tanks that require healers to be chain-casting on them for the duration of the fight. Deal with it.

[Kieldon]

Unique thread! What is the main point of it? Gather as many whiners as possible? Because this doesn't even give room for some debate, its just another generic "we didn't get new spells" thread and there are millions of it.

[cparle87]

Honestly I wonder how many people are mad that their class is outright bad (which is silly because it's pre-balance pass still) and how many are just reeing that there's no new talent row and/or we're giving up our artifact.


As for getting new abilities each expansion, it CAN be done. With the tradeoff that you lose some abilities as well to avoid bloat and homogenization. Heck, some games even just give you <Skill> 2/3/4 instead of new abilities.

Yeah, look at Cata, the last xpac before we moved to the new talent tree. As a ferak druid I never touched 1/2 of my moves, and another 1/8 were used maybe once a week.

[Nikkaszal]

Yet another person who doesn't understand "ability bloat" and "future sustainability".

This is now the SEVENTH expansion. If new abilities kept being added each expansion, we'd now be into ctrl-shift-alt-1/2/3/4/etc keybinds.

Look at FFXIV. That was a PRIME example of ability bloat, because every job had like 10 abilities as part of their regular rotation, PLUS cooldowns, PLUS defensives, PLUS utility, and then on top of that you could incorporate abilities from other jobs into your main... and you HAD to, because the game was balanced around this.

Then the first expac came out and, whoops, everyone got fresh new abilities! I legitimately ran out of keybinds, even using an MMO-button mouse and shift modifiers, because I was required to use so many buttons just to execute rotations. It was at the point where I was CLICKING stuff because trying to keybind it was awkward.

Second expac came out and stuff got pruned. It had to be. But then MORE abilities were added.

There gets a point where your bars are just too full of stuff which performs too similar a function to what either you already have, or another class has. Adding more abiilities just bloats things further.

[Mafic]

Yet another person who doesn't understand "ability bloat" and "future sustainability".
.

Three straight expansions of pruning. No one buys the propaganda you are pushing.

- - - Updated - - -

In other games that I'm playing I don't lose skills....at all.

I only gain skills and more abilities as I grow stronger. Take warframe for example. There are these slots called mods that i can add, upgrade, or swap around depending on the type of fights i'm doing.

It feels awesome and I have complete control over my warframe's progression.

WoW is such trash compare to some of these other games out there now. WoW takes away control from the player and actively hinders them slowing down their progress through idiotic changes like GCDs on offensive CDs, artificially induced time gates, or recycling iconic abilities as talent choices (LOL BLIZZ). These other games give players the freedom they so desperately want and that's why WoW is a thing of the past.

Edit: Everything in WoW feels so slow now like your moving through molasses. It's like they slowed everything down even travelling distances. Everything just feels so sluggish and it's not a good feeling.

Good post.

Let me add that Wow hasn't added a talent tier since WoD and the last time new baseline abilities were made in large quantities was in MoP.

[clevin]

Yet another person who doesn't understand "ability bloat" and "future sustainability".

BLOAT? WTF are you all smoking that after two straight expansions of pruning we have to worry about bloat?

[Nikkaszal]

BLOAT? WTF are you all smoking that after two straight expansions of pruning we have to worry about bloat?

It's pruning to AVOID bloat, genius

[nexellent]

The game is trash now because of lack of abilities. Classes no longer have the tools to respond to other classes, which leads to scripted and CD based gameplay.

[clevin]

It's pruning to AVOID bloat, genius

You're mental. The trend has been to reduce things for the last 2 expansions. If you think we're even close to worrying about bloat you must be new. Or trolling. Because classes were more complex in Wrath, Cata and MoP.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Yeah, look at Cata, the last xpac before we moved to the new talent tree. As a ferak druid I never touched 1/2 of my moves, and another 1/8 were used maybe once a week.

There's a role for those moves, but bloating classes with situational abilities that might not be touched for an entire tier isn't exciting. Hell, I'll take Azerite Passives over "pacify abberations for 10 seconds."

- - - Updated - - -

You're mental. The trend has been to reduce things for the last 2 expansions. If you think we're even close to worrying about bloat you must be new. Or trolling. Because classes were more complex in Wrath, Cata and MoP.

I'm now sitting here trying to remember if classes really were more complex in Wrath, Cata, and MoP.

Only to realize no, they really weren't. More buttons, maybe. But their core rotations were more or less the same as they are now. Barring the specs that got major reworks in Legion and BFA.

Also, find it hilarious people now consider Cata and MoP to be vanguards of good class design. Because everyone hated class design in those expansions and felt we were moving too far away from Vanilla - Wrath design, which were the vanguards.

[Baroclinic]

Meh, it's always been slowly crapping the "fun" stuff that doesn't fit a rotation. WoW has been so homogenized. I remember fun fun crap like DK spell copy (moved to a useless PvP talent), blowing up EVERY dead body around you for damage, and a druid spell that gave you and your target a new ability based on the targets class.

Now it's press these 5 attack buttons until loot drops.