Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[rhorle]

Dude. You are still wrong and your own facts prove it. You think making up facts is somehow proving your point but those made up facts don't matter. Tolkien wrote and pubhlished two books before he died. And that is all that he gave rights to make films of and not TV series.

Right. I haven't stated that wasn't the case. It isn't clear when the "limited match rights" to his unpublished works were added to the deal. The first reference I can find to it is prior to Christopher publishing some of his fathers stuff. Rings of Power is created because the rights sold didn't cover a TV series. It isn't really a loophole. The appendices were published work which shows that your argument, in regards to this show, doesn't work.

I have never said that Amazon has rights to all his other works. The "limited match rights" was what the SZC had. I'm not sure how you confused the two. The only one making things up here is yourself. You keep responding to arguments that exist only in your head. If there is nothing else for you to say then just leave the conversation. I know what agree to disagree means. So follow your own words and stop. Why do I have to stop when I'm not the one that wants to leave the conversation?

[Raelbo]

Therefore by that fact alone, this tells you his 2nd age story was not yet finished and therefore not intended to be read or seen by the public.

Again. This is non sequitur. You have no idea of what his intent was, or would have been.

Based on your argument, it's seems you are making the converse error. Just because publishing a work demonstrates a clear intent that it should be read or seen by the public, does not mean that the converse is true. This is because there are many possible reasons for which someone might choose not to publish something and unless you know those reasons, you cannot infer the intent.

That one small sentence is taken completely out of context if you think that it means he wanted Amazon or anybody else to come along and completely contradict what he was doing and make up their own stories that go against what he actually spent his life writing.

Where did I say that I think it means he wanted "Amazon or anybody else to come along and completely contradict what he was doing and make up their own stories that go against what he actually spent his life writing"?

That's right. I didn't. So stop trying to put words in my mouth. It's dishonest.

And if you are going to reference that one sentence then you should respect the entire letter and everything in it. Everything about this series contradicts the stated purpose of this series as revealed by the show runners and producers.

I don't see any contradictions. None at all. In fact I see pretty much nothing in his entire letter that even hints at what his attitude towards the idea of someone else creating a whole new story that fits into his universe using the medium of modern television might be...aside from that one line. Everything else basically speaks about the universe itself.

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The point is that combat exists purely in the realm of imagination, and is simply not applicable to real life logic or physics.

Trying to analyze the fight scenes is about as pointless as analyzing the combat effectiveness of a pro wrestling match. It misses the point of it literally being imaginary for the sake of entertainment.

The thing about combat is that being realistic and looking good on screen are mutually exclusive. I did fencing for many years back in my youth. And it looks nothing like The Princess Bride or Game of Thrones. Hell even when actual fencing is shown on screen it looks completely off.

[Orby]

Idk, as I get older I don't care to see any of my favourite IPs on the big screen, would prefer a big/good game that I can immerse myself in instead. Loved some of the PS2 games for LotR, they were great.

I have actually distanced myself from a lot of 'adaptations' for the most part and I am not too offended if they fuck it up either. But it has driven me to reading fantasy. The last 3 years I been reading so much fantasy books that I missed out on :P

[Xath]

Yea the guy who people said was a shill for Wheel of time but gave it an overall rating of 6/10, cos people mad he didn't trash it like the grifters are doing... Also I think I gave wheel of time a 5/10 overall too. Guess I am being paid cos I didn't give it a 0 too. Everyone is a paid shill until they something you agree with.

Also don't compare him to Taliesin and Evitel, that right there is the real insult. Least Greene has respect for his viewers and doesn't throw temper tantrums on stream. Is T&E still doing that? I havent watched him for 2 years.

He consistently defended that absolute trash until the finale even he couldn't find a way to defend.

[Triceron]

He consistently defended that absolute trash until the finale even he couldn't find a way to defend.

Some people cope with grief and loss differently than others. He was probably in denial, he's a big WoT fan and I don't blame him for wanting to like the show.

[Syegfryed]

If it's an elven barber, maybe it's the same Legolas was paying visits to in LotR, who knows.

Legolas didn't cut his hair though

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The point is that combat exists purely in the realm of imagination, and is simply not applicable to real life logic or physics.

Trying to analyze the fight scenes is about as pointless as analyzing the combat effectiveness of a pro wrestling match. It misses the point of it literally being imaginary for the sake of entertainment.

The pro wrestlers at least try to put a show, they at least try in general, just because its imagination does not excuse you making a fighting scene where you hit someone who is not even there., people study/work on the choreography of movies exactly to be better and more believable/awesome to watch.

Recently, a friend of mine was complaining about that exact fight scene, he was pissed that the fucking numenorians were training in a fucking alley, and it was a dogshit fight, so he shows me a scene with young need stark and a guy with two swords, from GoT, obviously, pure fantasy, no real-world physics, but it was enjoyable, it was cool and well done for a fantasy setting.

Even with some scenes in Lord of the rings, you can see there is a care and work on it, in RoP they apparently shot that shit in one day and call it, and that's shows it by the show lack of care, polishing and attention to detail.

Like, i can't believe they print shirts with scale mail pattern with that budget, and in the movies, they had people to actually make the chain mails and other stuff.

[Triceron]

The pro wrestlers at least try to put a show, they at least try in general, just because its imagination does not excuse you making a fighting scene where you hit someone who is not even there., people study/work on the choreography of movies exactly to be better and more believable/awesome to watch.

I want to be clear that my point these fights should not be subject to Youtuber Experts analysis to determine whether they are entertaining. Whether it ends up being entertaining or not has nothing to do with how real it is to real life Medieval combat standards. It's not fair to imply any film fight sequence is bad because of how a youtuber happened to break down how unrealistic the fight is, because even good fight scenes in movies/film are usually unrealistic. You're right that entertainment should be entertaining, and that's a different subject altogether.

Recently, a friend of mine was complaining about that exact fight scene, he was pissed that the fucking numenorians were training in a fucking alley, and it was a dogshit fight, so he shows me a scene with young need stark and a guy with two swords, from GoT, obviously, pure fantasy, no real-world physics, but it was enjoyable, it was cool and well done for a fantasy setting.

While not a Shad video, Skallagrim is in a similar vein for realistic medieval combat analysis



And if you watch the video, you'll see how this entire Game of Thrones sequence that you enjoyed so much is still considered highly unrealistic. It's entertaining because it's well executed. Realism shouldn't be part of the argument at all, considering even entertaining fights like this are highly unrealistic. It's just not as overdramatized as Pro Wrestling.

People bringing up Shadiversity isn't relevant why RoP's fight scenes are sub-par. You'd be right to say other things like it being attributed to poor choreography or lack of verisimilitude, but by no means is it down to whether or not these fight scenes are realistic to medieval combat standards. That was always my point here.


Like I said, Rings of Power has Xena level combat. And I'd argue that anyone who liked Xena's combat sequences back then and have grown to have higher expectations for medieval combat might not appreciate that same material now. It works for more casual audiences really. And I'd even go as far as saying House of the Dragon does things better but it's also focused much more on a mature audience, and overall has less viewership than Rings of Power as a result. Right now, Rings of Power is the more accessible show, and it has a higher viewership. So even if they aren't doing the combat or dialogue right, they're still doing other things that are, enough to gather a wide casual audience to say the least.

https://en.as.com/latest_news/house-...her-ratings-n/

[bledgor]

Like I said, Rings of Power has Xena level combat. And I'd argue that anyone who liked Xena's combat sequences back then and have grown to have higher expectations for medieval combat might not appreciate that same material now. It works for more casual audiences really. And I'd even go as far as saying House of the Dragon does things better but it's also focused much more on a mature audience, and overall has less viewership than Rings of Power as a result. Right now, Rings of Power is the more accessible show, and it has a higher viewership. So even if they aren't doing the combat or dialogue right, they're still doing other things that are, enough to gather a wide casual audience to say the least.

https://en.as.com/latest_news/house-...her-ratings-n/

It had the better opener, but I feel fairly comfortable saying that HotD has pulled ahead/RoP has fallen behind. HotD had to overcome the hurdle of season 8 to get viewers, and by and large is much loved/enjoyed so far. Meanwhile RoP had all the potential in the world and has not met those expectations.

[Syegfryed]

I want to be clear that my point these fights should not be subject to Youtuber Experts analysis to determine whether they are entertaining. Whether it ends up being entertaining or not has nothing to do with how real it is to real life Medieval combat standards. It's not fair to imply any film fight sequence is bad because of how a youtuber happened to break down how unrealistic the fight is, because even good fight scenes in movies/film are usually unrealistic. You're right that entertainment should be entertaining, and that's a different subject altogether.

And what im saying is, you do need some sort or degree of realism depending on the show, if you see two humans or a human and an elf fighting, you at least expect then to do somethings that at least make sense, even a unrealistic fight can make sense if you are, lets say, in the minds of another. If you take a supposed skilled combatant, you expect then to be skilled, not some dumbass who swing a sword like a stick.

And if you watch the video, you'll see how this entire Game of Thrones sequence that you enjoyed so much is still considered highly unrealistic.

I know it is, i said that, its obviously unrealistic, but it was done in a way to look believable in the contrast of the characters. You see it was a hell of a work to pull it out.

It's entertaining because it's well executed. Realism shouldn't be part of the argument at all, considering even entertaining fights like this are highly unrealistic. It's just not as overdramatized as Pro Wrestling.

And how can you execute something well? by making sense, this is not black and white as is either realist or isn't, its a mix of the two, one support the other, With pro-wrestling they train, they practice

Bringing up Shadiversity isn't relevant to the point of RoP's fight scenes being sub-par. You'd be right to say other things like it being attributed to poor choreography or lack of verisimilitude, but by no means is it down to whether or not these fight scenes are realistic to medieval combat standards. That is my point here.

No, i think its perfectly valid to bring his view because the fighting scene is not just unrealistic, is straight up retarded with the context of the scene, with the IP and the money they spend to do it.

Compare with House of the Dragon, The training of the kids made more sense and it was more realistic than that shitfuck numenorians training in the fucking alley like they don't have garissons or whatever.

Cuz let's face it, we're talking about the same series of adaptations that has Legolas surfing down stairs on a shield. There's no way Shad or Skallagrim or Scholagladatoria would praise such a thing either. And like I'm making my point with the video above, even that Arthur Dayne fight scene you watched is very choreographed and can be broken down by an expert to show its unbelievability. We only consider it better because it looks cooler, and is considered more believable by non-experts. And that kind of subjectivity varies greatly on the audience.

do you realize that to this very day people shit on legolas shield surfing right? cause tis dumb as fuck? tyou can pass it because he is an elf and it was funny, but it was dumb anyway.

The fighting in the alley is moronic, people attack Galadriel who is not even there, they hold a sword like its a piece of wood, this is worse when kids play sword with brooms

We're mostly Fantasy nerds here who have higher expectations than the common person who's watching Rings of Power and would have no problem at all with any of the fight scenes.

Even the common person would think is nonsensical to see a numenorian - the most powerful human nation - fight like a kid

Like I said, Rings of Power has Xena level combat.

And in what way i should see this as not a comp-ltely joke and failure?

Cause you are comparing something from 1995-2000 to a 2022 show with probably 50x the budget, and man it was a rly long time i didn't saw it, but it was def better than that RoP alley scene, at least people there were mostly buffoons without proper training;

[Triceron]

And in what way i should see this as not a comp-ltely joke and failure?

Cause you are comparing something from 1995-2000 to a 2022 show with probably 50x the budget, and man it was a rly long time i didn't saw it, but it was def better than that RoP alley scene, at least people there were mostly buffoons without proper training;

Because it has nothing to do with being modern or having a big budget or anything like that.

The show is literally already dumbed down for a very broad audience. It's stupid all the way through from the dialogue to the writing to the combat. It's pretty obvious it's entertainment designed for the lowest common denominator audience, and frankly it works for that.

It's the same reason why the CW is able to keep making shows despite everyone here recognizing that most of their shows are shit and have questionable production values.

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It had the better opener, but I feel fairly comfortable saying that HotD has pulled ahead/RoP has fallen behind. HotD had to overcome the hurdle of season 8 to get viewers, and by and large is much loved/enjoyed so far. Meanwhile RoP had all the potential in the world and has not met those expectations.

I think this is a completely reasonable assumption to make.

[Syegfryed]

Soooo, whats this interview going on that is baiscally the showrunner saying people who don't like the show are evil?

Because it has nothing to do with being modern or having a big budget or anything like that.

It have to do yes, you see something made 20 decades ago compared to something made today, things are different, the standarts were raised, the budget increased, peoplea ability and knowledge into making media, or making this kind of media increased, the writing got better.

We can't comapre the two, we have to compare with today's standarts, especially knowing how much they put it, how many hype they did, Xena didn't, it was a spin-off from a better show, that became cult

The show is literally already dumbed down for a very broad audience. It's stupid all the way through from the dialogue to the writing to the combat. It's pretty obvious it's entertainment designed for the lowest common denominator audience, and frankly it works for that.

Even the general audience is disliking, lol, many people i know who love shit like the flash alte seasons though this is boring and just slept trough it

Hell apparently even Amazon analyst slept.

Like i said previously, if this was an generic random fantasy show, with a low netflix budget, maaaaaaybe this could pass, because they didn't had many tools, but this is fucked, they gave the job to two people who spend decaded having their movied being denied, im starting to believe this shit is some sort of grand esqueme from Amazon/Bezos to laundry money or something.

It's the same reason why the CW is able to keep making shows despite everyone here recognizing that most of their shows are shit and have questionable production values.

And they were getting cancled for that;

[rhorle]

Rings of Power had another 1.2 billion minutes according to Nielsen. Episodes 1 and 2 got a lot more views over the week since episode 3 didn't start adding to the total until Friday. So any real drop off would start with next week rather then this week. It would be nice to get all markets and devices as Amazon has said that the show is doing very well internationally.

[Triceron]

It have to do yes, you see something made 20 decades ago compared to something made today

I mean you say that but have you watched any other shows other than Game of Thrones that had good sword fighting in it? You know it's pretty damn rare, right? Like, GoT is the 1% that actually does it well and does it right in a TV series. And it doesn't really have anything to do with budget since there are plenty of high budget fantasy shows that still get it wrong, RoP itself being a prime example of that.

Like what other TV series that involves swordplay could you really point at having decent sword fights? Maybe the Witcher? The swordplay is really cool but it's like, over the top fantasy just the same. He does so much fancy spinning or using reverse grips that it's just playing into the unrealistic-yet-cool 'Videogame moves' style of fighting than being realistic. I just consider Witcher a completely swords-and-sorcery so I just sit back and enjoy it for being overdramatic. Definitely better than RoP, but also worthy of drinking games.

[Syegfryed]

I mean you say that but have you watched any other shows other than Game of Thrones that had good sword fighting in it? You know it's pretty damn rare, right? Like, GoT is the 1% that actually does it well and does it right in a TV series. And it doesn't really have anything to do with budget since there are plenty of high budget fantasy shows that still get it wrong, RoP itself being a prime example of that.

Like what other TV series that involves swordplay could you really point at having decent sword fights?

I don't want somethin that rflect reali to the fullest, like i said, is not a black and white, is a gradient, just don't be dogshit retarded like RoP - don't hurt the supension of disbelief - and im fine with it

[Triceron]

I don't want somethin that rflect reali to the fullest, like i said, is not a black and white, is a gradient, just don't be dogshit retarded like RoP - don't hurt the supension of disbelief - and im fine with it

Well that's the thing :P

Suspension of disbelief is 100% subjective, so there's no real arguing whether a fictional swordfight is good or bad to anyone other than yourself. It all comes down to whether you enjoy it or not. At most, people can collectively agree that something is good or bad, but when it comes to arguing over it, then it's really down to personal thresholds of suspension of disbelief.

Like, Witcher has some cool swordfights, but it'd break my suspension of disbelief because of all the spinning and reverse grips. It's completely cliche. Of course, I give this show some slack since it's practically a magical fantasy world with videogame tropes written all over it.

And as bad as Xena's fights are for a 20 year old series, I still enjoy them now. I know that most people won't, but I have a fondness and 'higher tolerance for bullshit' for this show since it's Sam Raimi campy goodness. It is what it is. I agree that standards have raised since, and I don't give this benefit of the doubt to many series today. And yeah, I agree RoP's fight scenes suck balls.

[Syegfryed]

Suspension of disbelief is 100% subjective, so there's no real arguing whether a fictional swordfight is good or bad to anyone other than yourself..

I stand by my point that a fictional swordfight, in that context, with someone swinging aa sword to someone who is not even there, is bad, or should be bad, to anyone with at least one eye.

Like, i know there is a degree of how close you can get, and they edit it later, but that entire scene is absurd and ahve no excuse, like they said, they film in one day and no stunts.

Of course, I give this show some slack since it's practically a magical fantasy world with videogame tropes written all over it.

And because they didn't had RoP budget, and Geralt aimed for the monsters/people

[Triceron]

I stand by my point that a fictional swordfight, in that context, with someone swinging aa sword to someone who is not even there, is bad, or should be bad, to anyone with at least one eye.

I mean you say that but you also praised the GoT fight scene while not realizing one of the guys in the 4v1 fight drops his shield in front of the camera for no reason in the middle of the fight

[Rageonit]

Legolas didn't cut his hair though.

I know, and it was a missed opportunity, IMO. LotR should have had at least three slo-mo scenes of Legolas brushing his hair.

[Syegfryed]

I mean you say that but you also praised the GoT fight scene while not realizing one of the guys in the 4v1 fight drops his shield in front of the camera for no reason in the middle of the fight

Like i said, nothing is perfect and there is a gradient, of course that Scene is unrealistc, and we can dig on it, but tis not worse or stupid than that one in RoP

[Fortress of Arrogance]

A less than mediocre episode it was.
No harfoots, no Durin, Elrond and Dysa.
The "fight" over the tower and the village was not interesting, not engaging, no fight scenes to witness, no choreography to praise, no nothing. Numenorean charge was not inspiring or cinematic, or that impactful.
The meta-plot of exploding vulcano with water is as dumb as it sounds.
People having a feast literally minutes after the massacre of their own ended, while there are their dead to take care off TO BEGIN WITH, while there are bloodthirsty prisoners mere meters away?
At least Electrodriel doesn't speak of TEMPESTS INSIDE OF HER anymore in this episode, or how her rage CANNOT BE SATED WITH ALL THE OCEAN WATER.