Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[rogoth]

Another character I hate - Gil-Galad. This dude is supposed to be the greatest Elf Warrior left in Middle Earth. He's played by a 40 year old round faced dude in a dress.

They also butchered the "high king" thing. The "high king" of the Noldor never had as much power as they give Gil-Galad in this show, it's more a first among equals thing. From TolkienGateway.net: "The High King of the Noldor was the head of the House of Finwë in Middle-earth. Its bearer was the nominal overlord of all the Noldorin realms, but had little practical authority due to the disunity of the Noldor."

This illustrates itself in the Annatar story - Gil-Galad meets Annatar and distrusts him, and tells everyone not to deal with him, but Celebrimbor's like, eh, whatever man, and he works with Annatar for 500 years. Galadriel is his ally but she's mostly independent of him, ruling areas nominally under his control. If he told her she had to go to Valinor, she would have told him to fuck off.

And he suffers from the weirdness of the Galadriel story too - are we supposed to be annoyed with him, or is he right when he obstructs what she's trying to do? What are his motivations, is he actually wise? He just doesn't make sense. They messed him up by squishing all the plot together, he doesn't even really need to have a major part in this part of the narrative, he doesn't even fight in the war between Sauron and the Elves, he sends Elrond to do it for him.

Gil-Galad in lore is one of the most influential elves in the entire second age, it was he who first noticed the return of evil things to the world, it was he who first engaged with the numenoreans for aid, and it was him who led the elves of the west to prosperity and general safety, but being current year and the types of people in charge of this project, we can't have a strong white male lead being the good guy, unless they are a gay or trans person in which case exceptions get made i suppose, all in all the last high king of the noldor got shafted in this production due to the aforementioned biases of the writers/showrunners.

[rogoth]

Measuring engagement that has kept it in the top 10 shows of the season indicates that its a popular show no matter how you cut it.

Just because you personally don't like the show doesn't mean the majority share your sentiments. The dropoff of viewership is still the minority of people who watched the show, and its numbers are still high enough to keep it in the top 10, if not the top 5 shows watched during its release. Of course, it should have been a better show with the amount of money they put into it.

Most people are fine with bullshit TV, that is reality.

Shows like Andor is a much better show yet it can't even get the numbers that Rings of Power had. That's just how it goes.

the drop-off from first episode to second episode saw a 40% decline in viewership in the US market, subsequent viewership for each episode after that saw a decline of ~20% per week, meaning that come the season finale there was less people watching than had stuck around after they started watching the past the first episode, and sure you might have had some come back to see if anything in the finale was decent enough to watch the episodes they missed, but ultimately it lost the 'majority' of its viewership, it lost more people than it had people left to watch, meaning that the people who remained are a 'minority' by the literal definitions of the words, this has nothing whatsoever to do with whether i liked or disliked this garbage, these are irrefutable facts as shown by multiple sources of data, and even Amazon themselves when they were in panic mode at release stated that 25 million people 'SAMPLED' the show, not watched, not streamed, 'SAMPLED' which means that they saw enough to form the opinion it wasn't worth watching it all the way through and dropped it like a lead balloon, and the silence has been deafening since then because not once have they talked about engagement metrics, and even when talking to investors about the project the best they could come out with was a single line 'we are approaching 100m active users', i have 700 friends on facebook, does that mean i to am approaching 100m friend adds there?, that's the kind of bullshit spin they are putting out and paying for simp levels of 'journalism' from the access media crown to keep this failed show in the public consciousness.

there's been 3 different sources saying that behind the scenes Amazon is desperately trying to salvage what can be salvaged and retooling the entire project with a potential full reboot instead of going into a season 2, i don't know about you but that doesn't sound like it's been enjoyed by a 'majority' of people.

[Triceron]

You didn't say it? Lmao.

You don't understand the difference between 'Could' and 'Did'?

FUcking LMAO

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the drop-off from first episode to second episode saw a 40% decline in viewership *snip*

Even if you take into the percentage drops, it still pulls in numbers that keeps it in the top 10 most streamed shows for the duration of its run, including the spike it got back up by the finale.

[rogoth]

so not only is the entire show a steaming pile of hot garbage, Amazon or at least the showrunners and people in charge of this failed project who are representing Amazon have failed to make this show in a sustainable manner:



don't think daddy jeff is gonna be too happy when he starts getting mainstream media calling on his door asking for answers regarding his obscene environmental damage caused all in the pursuit of making as much money as possible pissing on Tolkien's legacy.

[Kumorii]

I see another victim has been claimed, Biomega...sad to see.

[Syegfryed]

so not only is the entire show a steaming pile of hot garbage, Amazon or at least the showrunners and people in charge of this failed project who are representing Amazon have failed to make this show in a sustainable manner:


don't think daddy jeff is gonna be too happy when he starts getting mainstream media calling on his door asking for answers regarding his obscene environmental damage caused all in the pursuit of making as much money as possible pissing on Tolkien's legacy.

People are saying the showrunners are going to be swapped, or at least, their roles in the overall thing will be cut, and they are just waiting the Awards(which are gonna be taken by House of the dragon), the backlash was too big for then to do nothing.

I doubt they will announce that, that is like admitting defeat

[Rennadrel]

I'm not gonna get into the political stuff, but it does have to do with how they view him as a side character to Galadriel's (utterly confusing, inconsistent) main character. The don't have a consistent idea for Galadriel - she's a badass, she's kept down by the men in charge, she's manipulated by Sauron so she's doing some straight up evil stuff (so maybe they should be trying to get her out there?), but like, they seem to think she's the heroine.

But I mean, yeah - Gil Galad is one of the two people who fights Sauron in the end. He's an absolute badass.

Funny note - if it takes them 2 years per season (as they seem to be on track to do) actor who plays Gil Galad - who is supposed to be immortal - will be 48, and Celebrimbor's actor - also immortal - will be 61.

The show tries so hard to make Galadriel a girlboss, even though she isn't in any form of the lore. The hacks working on the show clearly have zero understanding of what makes her a strong character in the overall Middle Earth lore. They think that feats of strength (aka cringe wannabe Matrix types of shit) and bossing people around makes her interesting rather than wisdom, compassion and authority that comes out of respect from others, not being a condescending bitch.

[rhorle]

You don't understand the difference between 'Could' and 'Did'?

They said could suffer. I said couldn't suffer. Neither of us used did. It seems silly to be laughing at yourself for not knowing the difference but here you are anyways.

[Triceron]

People are saying the showrunners are going to be swapped, or at least, their roles in the overall thing will be cut, and they are just waiting the Awards(which are gonna be taken by House of the dragon), the backlash was too big for then to do nothing.

I doubt they will announce that, that is like admitting defeat

There's interviews out where some of the actors don't even know if they're going to be reprising their roles in S2.

With this rumor it'd be surprising if they really went the way of a soft reboot. I can't imagine any of what they have being salvageable without extensive cuts, too much of the story is built upon the Sauron red herring bullshit.

[rhorle]

But doing that might allow Amazon to avoid calling the first season a failure, at least until after the second season is a success.

The first season is not a failure though. We know just from US TV's it has maintained good ratings. Add in PC/mobile and all other markets and it would be higher. It is strange how people that dislike the show keep insisting that it has been a failure.

[Xath]

The first season is not a failure though. We know just from US TV's it has maintained good ratings. Add in PC/mobile and all other markets and it would be higher. It is strange how people that dislike the show keep insisting that it has been a failure.

A show that is a success isn't making serious noise about moving showrunners to a lower tier role lols

[rhorle]

A show that is a success isn't making serious noise about moving showrunners to a lower tier role lols

"Serious" lol. There have been rumors of all sorts happening about the show even before the season started. Every rumor should be taken with a grain of salt. The show still has not been a failure.

[Syegfryed]

Every rumor on this show should be taken seriously seeing how the rumors before were proven to be right

[Biomega]

mostly it's professional reviewers being like, eh, this is boilerplate fantasy with high production values, I'll give it a B+.

I don't know exactly how it is for Fantasy, but as an academic specializing in Science Fiction, I know there's been a long-standing problem with reviewers that just don't really understand the genre - movie reviewers in particular. It can be very hard to get someone to go in-depth on aliens and spaceships when what they're really used to is French independent films or South-American auteurs or whatever. That's not to say that every genre film is a hidden gem (far from it) but there appears to be a good number of film critics that haven't quite got the toolkit OR mindset to evaluate certain genres. Though to be fair there are also those who very much do.

I can imagine it could be a similar situation for Fantasy, with people just reviewing as they would review any regular ol' movie/show and having only superficial genre knowledge or experience. That could absolutely reflect in their reviews in the ways described: looks impressive, has something about elves and orcs and whatnot which I guess is what fantasy does or something, music sounds fine, actors seem to not be complete idiots, B+ I guess. Especially problematic for a complex franchise like Tolkien, where there's lots of mythological interconnections that are not only relevant, but ARE the franchise - the entire thing thrives precisely off of the fact that's it's a larger mythology, and that's a big problem for single works within it. It's hard for any reviewer not in the know to respect that fact properly, unless they're a fan themselves - and then we get into murky territory between critic and fan which has its own problems.

And that's not even going into the whole swamp of the review industry, of course, where it's always easy to suspect people are pulling their punches so as not to sabotage their own careers. Whether or not that's actually the case.

[Triceron]

It's been fascinating to see how different the fan reaction has been compared to reviewers. Reviewers are almost all positive - fans are negative, particularly actual Tolkien fans. The rotten tomatoes ratings are still 39% and 85%. So I mean, yeah, the rumors have been more reliable than the media. It's been shocking to see this. There are a few people who share the overwhelmingly negative reaction that fans have, but mostly it's professional reviewers being like, eh, this is boilerplate fantasy with high production values, I'll give it a B+.

So yeah, we're left with rumors in the absence of a functioning critical press.

Not to mention Amazon has been completely silent after the series finished. Considering how much they were touting the success of the show at launch, the silence now is deafening.

I think the rumors of the execs shitting their pants at the success of House of the Dragon could be reasonable true.

[kasuke06]

Not to mention Amazon has been completely silent after the series finished. Considering how much they were touting the success of the show at launch, the silence now is deafening.

I think the rumors of the execs shitting their pants at the success of House of the Dragon could be reasonable true.

"Oh shit, if you make something good instead of just expensive people like it?"

[Biomega]

In their review of the final episode of Rings of Power (which is now a podcast, instead of written), you get the lead podcaster saying, "I liked it" in a voice that suddenly gets higher, and it just to me seems like they aren't really being very tough on the series... then for the last 30 minutes of the episode, the actual showrunners come on and are treated with kid gloves. It's all very strange.

I mean, it's easy to see why this would play out that way, right?

No company in their right mind is going to send its showrunners to a podcast to be slaughtered. Those appearances are VERY tightly controlled in most cases, and wherever there is even a sliver of doubt that this might not go too well, they just don't let them appear. And of course it's the same on the other side, where no podcast run with the aim of making some kind of money is going to blast a guest in ways that kill any chance of ever getting any similar guests in the future. It is, at its core, a conflict of interest: they're not interested primarily in providing the best review they can; they're interested primarily in having a job as a reviewer. They'd probably LIKE to have both happen, and maybe they even can, most of the time; but when it comes down to a choice between review and career, who could fault them for choosing career, really.

Advisors to the king, effectively - the king needs advisors who give him good advice, but when good advice means pissing off the king and getting executed as a result, no advisor will give that advice no matter how good it is in the abstract. Because there's things they value more than giving good advice. The result, unfortunately, tends to be a spiral into sycophancy and echo-chamber insulation.

[rhorle]

And, uh - it's not.

It is a hit though. Just not a hit for all of Tolkiens fanbase. It is #3 in the US on prime currently.

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Not to mention Amazon has been completely silent after the series finished. Considering how much they were touting the success of the show at launch, the silence now is deafening.

Even HBO is not saying much about House of the Dragon. It really doesn't mean much except for those looking to make a mountain out of a molehill.

[MCMLXXXII]

I was watching NFL last Thursday. Kinda telling they mention all kind of series during the game, like The Boys, but not their most expensive one.

[Triceron]

Even HBO is not saying much about House of the Dragon. It really doesn't mean much except for those looking to make a mountain out of a molehill.

There's plenty of buzz around HoD still, and HBO execs recently talked about more GOT Spinoffs in the works (outside of Season 2) in light of HOD's success.

We haven't really heard anything regarding Amazon's season 2 plans for RoP, with the most news we got talking about a 2024 release and some actors coming out saying they don't know of they will be returning at all.