Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[rogoth]

From what little I know the movie's them self weren't faithful cutting characters out massively changing the tone of others and then everything surrounding the hobbit movies, why would you be expecting the show to one up them on faithfulness and not just accept that he even the best adaptations we already have (rotoscope) didn't achieve it.

much of the main plot points of the film were faithful to the books, that said yes, several characters were either changed, or outright omitted, part of the reason people were tolerant of this, is because enough of the main plot was left intact, it was a star studded affair for a series and genre that had been left to rot by hollywood for decades, so it had a huge spotlight shining on it to be a success, which meant they had very very small amounts of wiggle room when it came to altering things to make sense with the screenplay.

[Nurasu]

I don't know why they decided to invent black dwarves out of nowhere,

This is a complete non-starter, because Dwarves' skin color is never specified and there are 7 Dwarven "Fathers"/clans. You can argue Elves/Humans, but Dwarves just removes the mask of your real issue.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

much of the main plot points of the film were faithful to the books, that said yes, several characters were either changed, or outright omitted, part of the reason people were tolerant of this, is because enough of the main plot was left intact, it was a star studded affair for a series and genre that had been left to rot by hollywood for decades, so it had a huge spotlight shining on it to be a success, which meant they had very very small amounts of wiggle room when it came to altering things to make sense with the screenplay.

So lets say that they stick more or less to the lore (no real plot to stick to I believe) and it fits in fine with the movies would the show get a pass as well? Or are things likes making the dwarfs who never had a defined race black a step to far but removing some character and changing core one's isn't?

[Varodoc]

This is a complete non-starter, because Dwarves' skin color is never specified and there are 7 Dwarven "Fathers"/clans. You can argue Elves/Humans, but Dwarves just removes the mask of your real issue.

You are being pedantic just for the sake of being a contrarian.

Before this trailer, no one thought "hey, are the dwarves actually black?"

Show me any relevant piece of media or art related to Lord of the Rings that portrayed dwarves as black people, go on.

Oh wait, there is none, since it's almost like they pulled this out of nowhere.

[Nerovar]

You are being pedantic just for the sake of being a contrarian.

Before this trailer, no one thought "hey, are the dwarves actually black?"

Show me any relevant piece of media or art related to Lord of the Rings that portrayed dwarves as black people, go on.

Oh wait, there is none, since it's almost like they pulled this out of nowhere.

None of this matters when you can just ignore the entire context of the world Tolkien created. It's very simple.

[Varodoc]

@Nurasu Also please show me when Elves (always described as fair and elegant) were ever portrayed like this in Middle Earth:




I have literally never seen a more out of place hairstyle for an elf, but suuuure, they aren't pushing an agenda to fill the usual quota

[Syegfryed]

From what little I know the movie's them self weren't faithful cutting characters out massively changing the tone of others and then everything surrounding the hobbit movies, why would you be expecting the show to one up them on faithfulness and not just accept that he even the best adaptations we already have (rotoscope) didn't achieve it.

the movies tried to be as faithful as possible knowing was an adaptation without billionaire budget. They had to change stuff to work on a movie but overall the intent and message/plot of the movie follows the book. Thats why the hobbit was not as much praised, it deviates from the lotr recipe adding bs stuff like the romance subplot.

Lets not pretend, we know for a fact that adaptations will change things, that is understandable, the problem is always how you do that, and what extend you do that.

The show came out saying it was a prequel, following tolkien lore and said it would be "the tale tolkien never wrote" plus other things, this put then the burden of trying to be as much faithful as lord of the rings at least; but that is not the case, they are basically taking the universe and doing a fanfiction.

[Nurasu]

You are being pedantic just for the sake of being a contrarian.

Before this trailer, no one thought "hey, are the dwarves actually black?"

Show me any relevant piece of media or art related to Lord of the Rings that portrayed dwarves as black people, go on.

Oh wait, there is none, since it's almost like they pulled this out of nowhere.

You are being the contrarian - there's nothing to support your conclusion that there can't be black Dwarves, only your own bias.

[Shadowferal]

[Varodoc]

You are being the contrarian - there's nothing to support your conclusion that there can't be black Dwarves, only your own bias.

Okay so since Tolkien never described people having sex, that means humans in Middle Earth reproduce asexually by laying eggs.

There's nothing to support my conclusion? How about the fact that you couldn't find any depiction at all of Middle Earth dwarves as black?

Just stop dude, the entire world agreed that the Dwarves of Middle Earth are fair-skinned. This black dwarf came out of nowhere to virtue signal ,as per usual in the last years, and you are buying it.

[uuuhname]

@Nurasu Also please show me when Elves (always described as fair and elegant) were ever portrayed like this in Middle Earth:

[IMG]https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/10/15/54018443-10498771-image-a-185_1644505330696.jpgIMG]


I have literally never seen a more out of place hairstyle for an elf, but suuuure, they aren't pushing an agenda to fill the usual quota

Jesus Christ, just don't watch the show if seeing darker skin triggers you so much.

[Syegfryed]

Criticism is fine. What tends to go on isn't really criticism, though. Certainly not constructive criticism.

i think the criticism are pretty constructive

1. Be more faithful to the original source
2. Better characterization, so the dwarves and elves don't look like humans cosplaying.

Not even talking about skin color, they just straight up don't look like elves, not even Galadriel.

[Nurasu]

Okay so since Tolkien never described people having sex, that means humans in Middle Earth reproduce asexually by laying eggs.

There's nothing to support my conclusion? How about the fact that you couldn't find any depiction at all of Middle Earth dwarves as black?

Just stop dude, the entire world agreed that the Dwarves of Middle Earth are fair-skinned. This black dwarf came out of nowhere to virtue signal ,as per usual in the last years, and you are buying it.

Can you find any depiction of Tolkien's that describes them as white? What's the problem with depicting them as a mixed race society in a modern adaptation when there's NO conflict with the source material unless you're fucking racist?

[Triceron]

@Nurasu Also please show me when Elves (always described as fair and elegant) were ever portrayed like this in Middle Earth:

I have literally never seen a more out of place hairstyle for an elf, but suuuure, they aren't pushing an agenda to fill the usual quota

Why does it have to have been portrayed before? This series isn't portraying anything that's ever seen before. It's not even based on anything we've actually seen portrayed before. These characters are completely all new to the universe, and are ultimately non-canonical.

As a general rule set by the Tolkien estate, Amazon is not allowed to alter is the history of Middle Earth, otherwise they seem okay with all of these changes.

Movies and games set in the LOTR universe don't have to be canonical to the books, whether we're talking about the LOTR movie adaptations, the videogames, the tabletop games, or this new series. They're ultimately liscenced products that exist within their own canon.

[Varodoc]

Jesus Christ, just don't watch the show if seeing darker skin triggers you so much.

So you have no respect for the source material that the show is supposedly based on?

- - - Updated - - -

Can you find any depiction of Tolkien's that describes them as white? What's the problem with depicting them as a mixed race society in a modern adaptation when there's NO conflict with the source material unless you're fucking racist?

Okay so you agree that men in Middle Earth reproduce asexually by laying eggs?

[Nurasu]

So you have no respect for the source material that the show is supposedly based on?

- - - Updated - - -



Okay so you agree that men in Middle Earth reproduce asexually by laying eggs?

Checks out; and prevents it from becoming Game of Thrones. You should pitch it, tbh.

[Sluvs]

So you have no respect for the source material that the show is supposedly based on?

- - - Updated - - -



Okay so you agree that men in Middle Earth reproduce asexually by laying eggs?

Ok, let me just add this: you can have respect and still change the source material.
In fact, I believe some changes that other adaptations made were more disrespectful than this one.

I can see that the characterization bothers you, that is fine. But lets not pretend that this is the biggest change ever.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

the movies tried to be as faithful as possible knowing was an adaptation without billionaire budget. They had to change stuff to work on a movie but overall the intent and message/plot of the movie follows the book. Thats why the hobbit was not as much praised, it deviates from the lotr recipe adding bs stuff like the romance subplot.

Lets not pretend, we know for a fact that adaptations will change things, that is understandable, the problem is always how you do that, and what extend you do that.

The show came out saying it was a prequel, following tolkien lore and said it would be "the tale tolkien never wrote" plus other things, this put then the burden of trying to be as much faithful as lord of the rings at least; but that is not the case, they are basically taking the universe and doing a fanfiction.

So lets say that they should be more faithful then the movies, I don't know enough about Tolkien's work to know but outside of visual aesthetic what exactly is putting this into Fanfiction?

[haediff]

Jesus Christ, just don't watch the show if seeing darker skin triggers you so much.

I think the point people are trying to make is sacrificing the source material for inclusion does right by no one.

[uuuhname]

So you have no respect for the source material that the show is supposedly based on?

dude, it seems pretty obvious the source material isn't really what you're mad about. but okay, let's say this goes against the source material, so what? the books are still there, the Peter Jackson movies ( and the hobbit movies...) are still there.

- - - Updated - - -

I think the point people are trying to make is sacrificing the source material for inclusion does right by no one.

that's not the point I'm seeing made with the person I quoted. and nothing was sacrificed! no one is burning books of the hobbit... all of what makes LoTR a thing is still out there for you to enjoy. another thing that doesn't fit into that mold exactly can exist as it's own thing as well.