Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Triceron]

The Queen of Dwarves, should have a beard. They're not giving her one because she's a main character and they want her to be appealing to the audience (pretty/sexy). Dwarf females weren't supposed to be known for their beauty... except, of course, to their spouses.

I honestly don't know how that would work on screen. If they went for it, it's just gonna look comical or overdramatized. There aren't many examples of bearded ladies taken seriously in a drama series.

[AcidicSyn]

Agreed! Two Towers definitely had the most changes and they were all kinda weird, including the whole Aragorn floating down the river plot. My personal fave was everyone yelling at Theoden to “ride out and meet” the orcs when he had like 75 soldiers lol.

The book strategy makes total sense - hole up in your greatest stronghold and wait for reinforcements to arrive.

The movie strategy recommended by Gandalf was, “You’re heavily outnumbered with an army full of boys and old men, you should attack.”

But those deviations, while they detracted from the story, were pretty minor and could mostly be ignored. Although Theoden attacking the entire army with 20 horsemen and winning was also pretty fucking stupid haha.

Although that is more or less what actually happened in the book, with the exception that as far as Theoden was concerned, he was charging out to a glorious death. He had no idea Erkenbrand(sp?) and Gandalf would show up.

For my part I was more upset they just decided to kill Haldir because cool, completely removed Gimli and Eomers stand in (what would become) the glittering caves and the wholesale omission of beragond and prince Imrahill from rotk. minor stuff sure but I really liked Gimli fawning over the caves like a schoolboy in the books.

Don't even get me started on Faramir even so much as batting an eye at the ring.

[Soulwind]

I honestly don't know how that would work on screen. If they went for it, it's just gonna look comical or overdramatized. There aren't many examples of bearded ladies taken seriously in a drama series.

Kathy Bates from American Horror Story comes to mind.

[Orby]

Random find of the day. Someone made a Reddit post containing combined pre-release criticism of 2001 trilogy. Many arguments seem weirdly familiar:

https://www.reddit.com/r/lotr/commen...riticized_pjs/

Kudos for you for finding this, cos I was explaining really earlier in this thread that people don't realise the amount of critism there was on the original franchise. I do feel that for a lot of people here they were kids when the trilogy came out where as I was like 18, so I was on the internet forums and message boards and noticed a lot of criticisms where they most likely did not.

but yes these were some of the things I saw too. there are also some criticisms I didn't see and there are some I remember that are not there.

This is like how now you have people who like the prequel Star wars trilogy and now its seen as a good trilogy. where as at the time a lot of star wars fans (by a lot I mean most) hated it, myself included.

another year just with new things to whine about. Nerds gonna nerd.

[AcidicSyn]

She's got it on the sides of her cheeks, like very overgrown sideburns, which women typically don't have.

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The Queen of Dwarves, should have a beard. They're not giving her one because she's a main character and they want her to be appealing to the audience (pretty/sexy). Dwarf females weren't supposed to be known for their beauty... except, of course, to their spouses.


It's the same annoying shit that they did in The Hobbit -- making a Dwarf more visually appealing so they could add in some weird, out of place love story between him and Tauriel.

Bolded bit is even cited in the appendices as one of the reasons why Dwarves eventually die off. They are insanely picky and particular about relationships.

[Coniferous]

Although that is more or less what actually happened in the book, with the exception that as far as Theoden was concerned, he was charging out to a glorious death. He had no idea Erkenbrand(sp?) and Gandalf would show up.

For my part I was more upset they just decided to kill Haldir because cool, completely removed Gimli and Eomers stand in (what would become) the glittering caves and the wholesale omission of beragond and prince Imrahill from rotk. minor stuff sure but I really liked Gimli fawning over the caves like a schoolboy in the books.

Don't even get me started on Faramir even so much as batting an eye at the ring.

I think TV writing standards haven't yet caught up to the new era. Standards for logic in TV writing tend to be very low, as long as everything's dramatic and characters are arguing all the time no one cares. The theory is that you need to create conflict every chance you can because that's more dramatic, logic and story consistency be damned.

Most fantasy stories don't need that, and it's fine. With good enough writing you can just have buds wandering around the woods and having adventures. Meanwhile the lack of consistency that comes from inserting conflict everywhere is what ruins stories because audiences expect a higher degree of consistency in these bigger series now.

[Orby]

Exactly. And people see it as no big deal, but after so many changes and new material added, it eventually gets to the point where it's not even the original work anymore... or even close to it.

Thats why the books still exist. Want the original work, you will only ever find it there. Thats why anything else is called adaptations. You are never going to get a perfect faithful retelling.

[Veggie50]

I don't want perfect... I'd just want some damn effort put into it to make it close and feel like it's part of the original stories.

Insert “amateurs…” meme.

[Orby]

I don't want perfect... I'd just want some damn effort put into it to make it close and feel like it's part of the original stories.

well the show isnt out yet, and all we have is a teaser trailer... so what effort they have put in isnt really out there outside of that teaser. But hey you could be right, I aint gonna say its going to be good myself, I don;t know either. But the story is what is going to make or break it for me.

[Jastall]

As a general rule (this applies to GoT too) when watching these series, the best scenes follow the plot of the source material closely (like the ride to Gondor, which if not worded exactly the same is pretty damn close). The worst scenes are the ones where the plot is changed (“ride out and meet them!”).

Hell, a lot of the best lines in the movies are lifted directly from the books - “and it would seem like wisdom but for the warning in my heart”.

Speaking of things the movie messed up, Faramir has to be pretty high up there too huh… he was great in the books and terrible in the movies. It’s the usual issue - movie writers want to create conflict so they made Faramir an initially threatening character instead of a good guy.

Anyway, the point is, when that’s the reality, why should we have any hope that something with no source material to work from could be good?

I'll get hate for it but I don't mind the Faramir changes that much. In the books he's just too perfect. He was more or less Tolkien's self-insert and it showed in how the one object that tempts ever other Man who lays eyes on it makes him shrug and move on.

Jackson took it too far for the sake of conflict, sure, no arguments here. But making Faramir be truly tempted until he relents precisely because he's a better man than his brother makes him a better character if you ask me, and emphasizes the power of the Ring further.

Denethor though, there's no excuses for it, he turned a nuanced and flawed character into a sneering villain and it sucks.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Are you actually suggesting that people don't read books these days? I know unbridled, irrational hate blinds people, but you could not be more blind to reality lol

Books still release every single day, some continue to top bestsellers lists, people continue to buy and read.

Americans read about 20 minutes a day. Twenty minutes. One glance at the dismally low amount of books our supposedly best authors sell underscores this fact.

Compare 20 minutes of reading to the average amount of time spent gaming, or watching movies and TV shows. Books only matter insofar as they get made into movies or TV shows or have video game adaptations.

As for "best seller's lists", look at how those lists are actually defined. By using Publisher Rocket, any author can easily make it onto a "best seller's list" by writing to market for a category that has only a few books releasing. Authors also make it onto the "best seller" list without actually making it. Usually what happens is that their company buys up 5,000 of the books, and then the author gives the books away for promotion, whilst the purchase is still counted and skyrockets them to the top of the "best seller" list, and then that gets them a lot of publicity and then their books fly off the shelves. It's fake.

Publishers also inflate their own numbers due to the way oldpub works, where they make money not by selling books to bookstores, but instead bookstores returning the books back to the publisher and the publisher destroys the books and gets a tax break. Oldpub is not in the business of actually trying to get people to read books anymore.

Barnes & Noble doesn't make money selling books anymore. They make money selling pens and coffee mugs.

most people would certainly have never even heard about them without the Peter Jackson movies.

Hahaha

[Xath]

Thing is, if it was an established director, from anyone but Amazon I would probably be open to it, but after The Rafe of Time and the fact they once again went with basically no names to produce it, I don't.

This series seems to be following the same path as WoT and that was an utter fucking abomination.

Exactly which is why it's receiving a ton of pessimism rather than nervous optimism because we have already seen amazon royally fuck up a fantasy show this year.

[Nerovar]

Random find of the day. Someone made a Reddit post containing combined pre-release criticism of 2001 trilogy. Many arguments seem weirdly familiar:

https://www.reddit.com/r/lotr/commen...riticized_pjs/

Most critiques of the films were and still are valid.

But his situation will be wholly different. Amazon doesn't even have the rights to the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales and the History of Middle Earth which effectively means that all they can go by is Appendix B which is half a page of text and one page of timeline. That's it. Peter Jackson at least had access to the literature that was relevant to his adaptation. Amazon doesn't have the rights to the main sources for the Second Age.

[Triceron]

Most critiques of the films were and still are valid.

But his situation will be wholly different. Amazon doesn't even have the rights to the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales and the History of Middle Earth which effectively means that all they can go by is Appendix B which is half a page of text and one page of timeline. That's it. Peter Jackson at least had access to the literature that was relevant to his adaptation. Amazon doesn't have the rights to the main sources for the Second Age.

Not like it matters. Amazon is deliberately telling a new story using the LOTR name. They aren't exactly looking for authenticity.

[Xath]

Not like it matters. Amazon is deliberately telling a new story using the LOTR name. They aren't exactly looking for authenticity.

They did the same thing with Wheel of Time and it blew up in their face.

[Coniferous]

I'll get hate for it but I don't mind the Faramir changes that much. In the books he's just too perfect. He was more or less Tolkien's self-insert and it showed in how the one object that tempts ever other Man who lays eyes on it makes him shrug and move on.

Jackson took it too far for the sake of conflict, sure, no arguments here. But making Faramir be truly tempted until he relents precisely because he's a better man than his brother makes him a better character if you ask me, and emphasizes the power of the Ring further.

Denethor though, there's no excuses for it, he turned a nuanced and flawed character into a sneering villain and it sucks.

I disagree - I like Faramir in the book. He's kind of an anti-Arthas - he bluntly says he won't make moral compromises even if he thinks he might save his city by doing so. And while I don't think he says so directly, it seems implied to me that it's because of his understanding of the history of Numenor and Gondor. He talks about how the story of Numenorean men has been one of slow decline, and it seems to me that his uncompromising morals stem from his desire to be like the Numenoreans of old, to avoid contributing to the decline he obviously sees and constantly alludes to. When Sam complements him and says he has an "Elvish" air, Faramir says, "Maybe you discern from far away the air of Numenor."

It's the idea that men are corruptible, but some men have always managed to not be corrupted, and those men have been the ones who have always fought against the evils of Sauron and Morgoth.

[Triceron]

They did the same thing with Wheel of Time and it blew up in their face.

They have 2 more seasons confirmed. Don't think they really mich care about whatever 'blew up on their face', since it doesn't seem to matter as much as people think it does.

[bledgor]

They have 2 more seasons confirmed. Don't think they really mich care about whatever 'blew up on their face', since it doesn't seem to matter as much as people think it does.

Ehhh they blew A LOT of good will/faith people had, and considering how fucking awful episode 8 was, think if season 2 isn't very good it will fall off hard. I already know quite a few people that gave it a go and won't watch season 2, including myself.

[Varodoc]

Not like it matters. Amazon is deliberately telling a new story using the LOTR name. They aren't exactly looking for authenticity.

Translation: "They know no one would watch their shitty fanfics if they didn't have the LOTR name associated to it."

That's why people are spamming the quote "Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made", because it fits this situation perfectly.

[s_bushido]

Translation: "They know no one would watch their shitty fanfics if they didn't have the LOTR name associated to it."

That's why people are spamming the quote "Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made", because it fits this situation perfectly.

Translation: It's an adaptation and that makes me angry!

Honestly... Literally every movie/tv adaptation is a "shitty fanfic" of the original if this is the metric you're going to use.

Most of them turn out to be crap because it's incredibly difficult to make a good show/movie period...and that's without the extra baggage of basing it on a work that people thought was good enough to adapt in the first place.