Any 120 BrMs?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

This is kinda misrepresenting the issue with Vengeance which is consistent damage smoothing, not using cooldowns at the wrong time which is actually surely more of an issue with Monks anyway due to how Stagger works?

I tanked KJ on my VDH - my main at the time - and with help from legendary could do it fine. As long as I was careful to have spikes plus another CD for every special attack. But if I got distracted and slipped up even once in that long fight, I would die and we would probably wipe. Brewmaster, on the other hand, has ISB up 100% of time and merely has to purify when stagger is high. And this comparison is why Brewmaster is always strong for progression raiding. It's very nature brings much needed stability while the raid team learns new fights. Other tanks may take less total damage, but Brewmaster is least likely to get one-shot and end the fight early.

[makkura]

Anyone got some pro tips about tanking the Avatar of Zul before the last guy in King's Rest on a medium to high key? Last night he was doin a solid 17k dps to me thru fort and dampen. I'm guessing he will be nuking for like ~60k every two seconds on a +5 fortified and this is scary.

[Raern]

Anyone got some pro tips about tanking the Avatar of Zul before the last guy in King's Rest on a medium to high key? Last night he was doin a solid 17k dps to me thru fort and dampen. I'm guessing he will be nuking for like ~60k every two seconds on a +5 fortified and this is scary.

Zen meditation is pretty good for him

[Gorsameth]

This is kinda misrepresenting the issue with Vengeance which is consistent damage smoothing, not using cooldowns at the wrong time which is actually surely more of an issue with Monks anyway due to how Stagger works?

Stagger actually makes monks very forgiving. If you forget to use a cooldown there is a decent chance (if its physical) that Stagger saves you from getting 1 shot and you can purify or outheal the high stagger damage from it.

Other tanks just get splattered in that situation.

[kran1um]

leveling as BrM makes me just want to shake you.

[Tech614]

Stagger actually makes monks very forgiving. If you forget to use a cooldown there is a decent chance (if its physical) that Stagger saves you from getting 1 shot and you can purify or outheal the high stagger damage from it.

Other tanks just get splattered in that situation.

Forgiving as in the brewmaster doesn't die yes.

Not forgiving in that if something is done poorly your stagger DoT will literally be a healer magnet which will likely lead to someone else in your raid being in gib range due to the healers trying to heal the massive DoT off of you.

There is a massive difference between a brewmaster that keeps a manageable stagger DoT and one who does not. Which is partially the reason a lot of guilds will still like bears for pure raid progression as they provide both smooth damage in take and are piss easy to play.

[Saverem]

I tanked KJ on my VDH - my main at the time - and with help from legendary could do it fine. As long as I was careful to have spikes plus another CD for every special attack. But if I got distracted and slipped up even once in that long fight, I would die and we would probably wipe. Brewmaster, on the other hand, has ISB up 100% of time and merely has to purify when stagger is high. And this comparison is why Brewmaster is always strong for progression raiding. It's very nature brings much needed stability while the raid team learns new fights. Other tanks may take less total damage, but Brewmaster is least likely to get one-shot and end the fight early.

KJ is actually a very good fight for VDHs, also used mine to tank him. The FB and DS cds sync'd up perfectly with his swipes making DH tanks one of the better tanks for him. Also, being immune to being knocked out of the ship was a great perk. The only thing that sucked was having to soak up the big swirlies. had to let immunity classes and other tank handle that one because it would nearly 1 shot me.

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Speaking of which...

Anyone notice how pretty much all the big abilities on the bosses in Uldir are magic damage? There doesn't seem to be any more big physical attacks like the ones from Odin/KJ/Avatar/Agg/Argus/etc that made stagger great. All of those large, hard hitting attacks are now magical/poison/disease/spell damage. Seems like it does diminish BrM tanking superiority there. Seems to me tanks with better magic mitigation/CDs like BDKs and Prot pallies are probably going to be the best tanks for there.

[Doomchicken]

The one thing I want to see for Brewmaster to come back is dizzying haze. It was real good for generating threat and range pulling packs and can help gain agro on accidentally pulled packs instead of waiting for keg smash to come off cd before you have any hope in hell of getting good enough threat.

[Gorsameth]

KJ is actually a very good fight for VDHs, also used mine to tank him. The FB and DS cds sync'd up perfectly with his swipes making DH tanks one of the better tanks for him. Also, being immune to being knocked out of the ship was a great perk. The only thing that sucked was having to soak up the big swirlies. had to let immunity classes and other tank handle that one because it would nearly 1 shot me.

- - - Updated - - -

Speaking of which...

Anyone notice how pretty much all the big abilities on the bosses in Uldir are magic damage? There doesn't seem to be any more big physical attacks like the ones from Odin/KJ/Avatar/Agg/Argus/etc that made stagger great. All of those large, hard hitting attacks are now magical/poison/disease/spell damage. Seems like it does diminish BrM tanking superiority there. Seems to me tanks with better magic mitigation/CDs like BDKs and Prot pallies are probably going to be the best tanks for there.

Pretty much expected. The reason they nerfed magic defense for tanks was so that the designers could use magic damage to actually threaten tanks rather then have them be cheesed repeatedly.
Ofcourse it then becomes a problem when you leave a class with their big magic defense intact (AMS for DK's).

[Deleted]

On top of that, having low stats isn't the only thing that hit other tanks(it actually hits monks a lot since crit and mastery affect a lot the healing you require), dks lost a lot of their slowing capabilities, their group leech, vengeance dhs got a huge nerf to spirit bomb leech and soul generation in general, they lost charred remains which was a big part of their selfhealing, in comparison monks didn't lose much, they even gained utility having both a stun and a ring of peace (and situationnaly a statue)

DnD slowing 90% when dropped w talent. Add Death's advance baseline to that and kiting is great (but yes, every tank in general is way weaker than legion).

[Marrilaife]

DnD slowing 90% when dropped w talent.

Yes and it's exclusive with wraith walk and the cd reduction of mass grip. So ofc it's nerfed when in legion you had all 3 combined. Also wraith walk breaks snares while death advance doesn't, it only suppresses slows but does nothing against roots.

Anyone notice how pretty much all the big abilities on the bosses in Uldir are magic damage? There doesn't seem to be any more big physical attacks like the ones from Odin/KJ/Avatar/Agg/Argus/etc that made stagger great. All of those large, hard hitting attacks are now magical/poison/disease/spell damage. Seems like it does diminish BrM tanking superiority there. Seems to me tanks with better magic mitigation/CDs like BDKs and Prot pallies are probably going to be the best tanks for there.

I was under the impression mystic vitality was made baseline, so monks have still some partial magical stagger while for example prot pally active mitigation used to work against magic, but it's just armor now, same with bdk bone shield, and ams is still not as powerful as in legion. Warriors have spell reflect but it was nerfed by removal of artifact traits, same thing with druid they lost adaptive fur and the moonfire trait that helped lower magical damage. And ofc DH's empower wards is gone.

[Xequecal]

Anyone have any idea if Celestial Fortune healing procs will also trigger Blessed Portents? That seems like it would be a huge amount of healing in a raid setting since Celestial Fortune can proc off every individual HoT tick.

[Saverem]

I was under the impression mystic vitality was made baseline, so monks have still some partial magical stagger while for example prot pally active mitigation used to work against magic, but it's just armor now, same with bdk bone shield, and ams is still not as powerful as in legion. Warriors have spell reflect but it was nerfed by removal of artifact traits, same thing with druid they lost adaptive fur and the moonfire trait that helped lower magical damage. And ofc DH's empower wards is gone.

Not only was it NOT made baseline, our baseline magic stagger was NERFED from 40% to 35%.

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Pretty much expected. The reason they nerfed magic defense for tanks was so that the designers could use magic damage to actually threaten tanks rather then have them be cheesed repeatedly.
Ofcourse it then becomes a problem when you leave a class with their big magic defense intact (AMS for DK's).

AMS is actually pretty meh now for DKs (unless you're using it to cheese magic debuffs), it absorbs less than half of what it did in Legion (compared to HP). The thing with them though, is that they have several abilities that reduces ALL incoming damage like IBF and especially Runetap which is 30% damage reduction in a very low CD. Those abilities are great for mitigating magic damage. Not to mention they are great at just healing themselves back up immediately after a large blow, something we Monks are the worst at.

[kran1um]

Did my first ever tank solo on M0 second last boss and last boss on motherlode the other day, who said BrM isnt self sustained!! Thank goodness for vivify+orbs!

[keqe]

Did my first ever tank solo on M0 second last boss and last boss on motherlode the other day, who said BrM isnt self sustained!! Thank goodness for vivify+orbs!

Well it kind of helps when boss literally can't hit you because ranged attacks don't consume elusive brawler stacks.

[Saverem]

Did my first ever tank solo on M0 second last boss and last boss on motherlode the other day, who said BrM isnt self sustained!! Thank goodness for vivify+orbs!

That's literally the worst boss to gauge your self sustain. Pretty much any tank can keep themselves alive there.

Go tank Shrine bosses and see how easy it is to self sustain there.

[Caprix]

I had a healer dying mid fight on that boss and i used vivify mostly to keep the dps alive lol.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

That's literally the worst boss to gauge your self sustain. Pretty much any tank can keep themselves alive there.

Go tank Shrine bosses and see how easy it is to self sustain there.

I'm curious to see how our self sustain scales with azerite traits. Azerite Veins was roughly 20% of my self heals in Uldir last night, and that was with one stack (i.e., one piece of gear with that trait). Imagine if I had it on all three, and at a decent item level?

[kran1um]

That's literally the worst boss to gauge your self sustain. Pretty much any tank can keep themselves alive there.

Go tank Shrine bosses and see how easy it is to self sustain there.

Did that too. mobility and vivify. Healer zero mana. anything else you want to be negative nancy about?

[Saverem]

Did that too. mobility and vivify. Healer zero mana. anything else you want to be negative nancy about?

So you are saying that you tanked every boss in Mythic shrine with healer using 0 mana on you?

Wow dude, I'm just going to believe you with no evidence and deem you a literal GOD among mortals. Congrats on being the only BrM tank in the universe to have more self sustain than DHs and DKs.

Method must be kicking down your door to come tank world firsts for them.

INFRACTION